So who won tonight's debate....?

[PixelPusher]

Take a look at what you were talking about you stupid :






Since I'm financially doing better then I was a year or two ago, then all this economy talk is balderdash then...................you know, because me saying it makes it true.





you're an idiot.

I understand your point about anecdotal evidence, but in the context of this thread - anecdotal facts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whottt's "facts"

[whottt]

i can't even begin to understand your ignorance when you say something like jews hating themselves.

All jews aren't israeli,

Sigh...

but all the people of israel are jews.

False, they are not all Jews.

Its like saying that germans hating nazis hate germans.

And many Germans do hate Nazi Germans.

To believe that a 9yr old could be executed is beyond comical to me. I'm

guessing that fox news told you that?

It's the age defined by Sharia Law in Iran.

Of course don't believe a person that

has actually been to the country before. IRAN IS A THEOCRACY, ITS RUN ON

THE TEACHINGS OF THE QURAN.

No ...how old was Aisha when Muhammad married her?

Since you've been to Iran you should have that knowledge.

If a 9 yr old can be executed there, trust

me they can be executed in Saudi A. or w.e.

Saudi Arabia is much worse than Iran on human rights. The Sunnis are worse than the Shias. The problem is that both religions are currently battling a dark and oppressive age and both of them consider non-Muslims as second class citizens at best and those who need to be whittled down to minority status.

And the leadership of Saudi Arabia needs to go too. The problem is that's a of a lot more complicated due to their being the birthplace of Muhammad, not to mention having a trillion dollar economy and being the world's largest exporter of Oil....not to mention being the most stable country in the region historically, as well as the one least hostile to it's neighbors.


There are 900 million or so Sunnis in the world, only 130 million Shias...who would you rather fight first?

And make no mistake about it...as long as they consider non-Muslims second class citizens, that fight is going to happen. The majority of Christians and Jews figured out that second class citizsen thing didn't work to well...when will the majority of Muslims figure it out?

Your entranced into the media's

perception that Iran is working for one goal and one goal only, to destroy

israel.

I don't think that's their only goal...their goal is to spread Shia Islam and reunify the Ottoman Empire under the authority of the Imams.

They hate the Sunnis almost as much as they hate the Jews...sometimes more.


But you're a brainwashed lemming...Iran leads the world annually in the execution of juveniles.


They executed tons of children during the Islamic Revolution, they executed a 15 year old girl just a couple of years ago. They executed a 16 year old boy a couple of years ago as well. They also executed a 31 year old woman for a crime she commited at the age of 13.

What you don't realize is that most arab nations don't care about the

palestenians and deny them citizenship. Much so like Iran, but they at least

have the decency of condemning israel and warning it. Iran isn't stupid

enough to drop a nuke, and get attacked by the Zionists running our

government, that clearly love israel more.

Um...I know full well what the Palestinians are, they are the radical s of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, kicked out of those countries and formed into an Anti-Israeli Movement by the Soviet Union in the sixties....this almost forced the Israelis into turning to the Soviet Union for support and then America stepped into an alliance with Israel to prevent that happening, which then flipped several muslim countries other than Saudi Arabia into an alliance with the Soviet Union. And that was the last major political realignment in the Mid-East until America went into Iraq.

And yes I know those other countries are the ones responsible for the refugee status of the majority of the Palestinians.

I know this...it's the liberals on this board that don't. That's who you need to explain that to.

It's really hilarious when you look at a map...all those huge Arab nations have no room for the Palestinians, but little Israel is supposed to make room for them. That stunt only fools Muslims and Liberals.

Bottom line...they don't like the white European Jews being in their land, and those Kings and Ayatollahs don't like a Democracy being there either...I don't really blame them for that on the European Jew thing...that doesn't mean you exterminate them, as the Muslims have already attempted to do, twice.

And you don't blame America for it...you blame Europe for it. They're the ones behind it...they didn't want the Jews there. Not just Germany, but Great Britain and France as well.

To help someone of your intellect understand this better. Would you kick a

guy with a rifle in the balls?

Depends on if I thought he was going to shoot me or not...if he was saying he was going to shoot me, yes I would...I wouldn't have an alternative.

[Shastafarian]

I understand your point about anecdotal evidence, but in the context of this thread - anecdotal facts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whottt's "facts"

Anecdotal facts are still facts (as long as they can be corroborated). If someone inserts their opinion in with an anecdotal fact then proper differentiation is needed. Doesn't change the fact johnsmith got upset I was attacking his boyfriend for something that was completely justified (re: Iran executes 9 year old girls).

[Shastafarian]

False, they are not all Jews.

Would you like to better explain your statement?

To refer to "Arab nationals," as this law does, is a deceptive translation of ezrahut, because Arabs or others who are not Jews cannot be "nationals" of Israel. Only Jews can be "nationals." Their nationality rights are granted by the Law of Return. No Israeli nationality applies to all citizens, as does a US nationality in the United States or French nationality in France, for example. In Israel, there is only a Jewish nationality. That non-Jews cannot qualify for nationality rights in the state of Israel was affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1972 in a statement that there is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people.

[whottt]

Dems typically get about 90% of the black vote in a prez election. Obama will get about 95% of that.

We'll see.

And there will be record-high turnout among AA's.

Yeah will there are Pro-Life and Pro-American African Americans as well, there are also African Americans that don't like candidates that are totally full of ...not to mention something like 70% of African American supported profiling of Muslims after September 11th. And there were a lot of African Americans that were Clinton supporters too. Without a doubt there will be a huge turnout, will 95% of it go to Obama? We'll see. I definitely don't see any African American that voted for Bush voting for Obama...

[bonnington]

No...but you are one of those that's idiot who can't read or interprtet simple statments.

I said shocked...

if you think these guys would be shocked by the holocaust. Impressed and envious? Yes. Shocked? No.

Then you don't know exactly how my family died.

[Findog]

We'll see.



Yeah will there are Pro-Life and Pro-American African Americans as well, there are also African Americans that don't like candidates that are totally full of ...not to mention something like 70% of African American supported profiling of Muslims after September 11th. And there were a lot of African Americans that were Clinton supporters too. Without a doubt there will be a huge turnout, will 95% of it go to Obama? We'll see. I definitely don't see any African American that voted for Bush voting for Obama...

You simply don't understand the level of pride that AA's have over the potential of having one of their own in the WH (yeah, I know, he's not a descendant of West African slaves). There are going to be a lot of non-political AAs that typically don't vote that do this year. And the Colin Powell types are going for Obama. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Powell endorses Obama.

[bonnington]

Would you like to better explain your statement?

Exactly, Arabs (or Druze or other minority groups) in Israel are granted full citizenship, but are considered of Arab or in these times of palestinian nationality, since the Israeli nationality is intrinsically Jewish.

And, despite the fact that I speak Spanish, I understood what Whoot meant.

That's the reason I asked if he denied the Shoa, because nothing the Iranian are doing can be compared by the way my family died.

I really think that the Iranians could actually be shocked by the perversion of the Nazis.

[AFBlue]

Hahaahahahahaha. This article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4837692.ece) says McCain may have LOST just by showing up.

IMO, McCain was a) the most lucid he's been in in over a year, but that's not saying much and b) playing from behind. The only way he could "win" would be to blow Obama out of the water, but that didn't happen. Instead, he just kept repeating over an over how Obama "didn't have the experience" and "doesn't get it" but Obama blew him off the stage by showing he DOES get it and DOES have the experience.

The two stupidest moments:
1. The pissing match they got into about 18 million when there's a 700 billion offer on the table and 70 billion being spent in Iraq a month.
2. The pissing match they got into over what Kissinger actually said. By the way, Obama was right.

Obama showed a decent command of foreign policy, but I don't get where he proved he's got the experience.

1. Yeah I thought the $18B (with a B) was a bit paltry when Obama wasn't stating how he was going to prioritize or cut back on the $800B (with a B) of proposed new spending (that $1.5 TRILLION in total spending if you include the bailout) AND give a tax cut to 95% of working Americans, AND keep spending under control.

That $18B seems really small now doesn't it?

2. Obama was right in stating that Kissinger was for secretary-level talks with those countries....but that's an irrelevant point.

Obama said he, as President of the United States, would meet with the leaders of those countries without pre-condition. He didn't specify that secretary-level meetings or other preparations would need to be done until he realized the political implications of what he was suggesting.


FWIW, I don't think either candidate won or lost this debate as a whole. Each candidate had their own strong and weak moments...and it made for a mostly unspectacular event.

I just took exception to some of your observations.

[sook]

Sigh...



False, they are not all Jews.




And many Germans do hate Nazi Germans.





It's the age defined by Sharia Law in Iran.




No ...how old was Aisha when Muhammad married her?

Since you've been to Iran you should have that knowledge.



Saudi Arabia is much worse than Iran on human rights. The Sunnis are worse than the Shias. The problem is that both religions are currently battling a dark and oppressive age and both of them consider non-Muslims as second class citizens at best and those who need to be whittled down to minority status.

And the leadership of Saudi Arabia needs to go too. The problem is that's a of a lot more complicated due to their being the birthplace of Muhammad, not to mention having a trillion dollar economy and being the world's largest exporter of Oil....not to mention being the most stable country in the region historically, as well as the one least hostile to it's neighbors.


There are 900 million or so Sunnis in the world, only 130 million Shias...who would you rather fight first?

And make no mistake about it...as long as they consider non-Muslims second class citizens, that fight is going to happen. The majority of Christians and Jews figured out that second class citizsen thing didn't work to well...when will the majority of Muslims figure it out?





I don't think that's their only goal...their goal is to spread Shia Islam and reunify the Ottoman Empire under the authority of the Imams.

They hate the Sunnis almost as much as they hate the Jews...sometimes more.


But you're a brainwashed lemming...Iran leads the world annually in the execution of juveniles.


They executed tons of children during the Islamic Revolution, they executed a 15 year old girl just a couple of years ago. They executed a 16 year old boy a couple of years ago as well. They also executed a 31 year old woman for a crime she commited at the age of 13.







Um...I know full well what the Palestinians are, they are the radical s of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, kicked out of those countries and formed into an Anti-Israeli Movement by the Soviet Union in the sixties....this almost forced the Israelis into turning to the Soviet Union for support and then America stepped into an alliance with Israel to prevent that happening, which then flipped several muslim countries other than Saudi Arabia into an alliance with the Soviet Union. And that was the last major political realignment in the Mid-East until America went into Iraq.

And yes I know those other countries are the ones responsible for the refugee status of the majority of the Palestinians.

I know this...it's the liberals on this board that don't. That's who you need to explain that to.

It's really hilarious when you look at a map...all those huge Arab nations have no room for the Palestinians, but little Israel is supposed to make room for them. That stunt only fools Muslims and Liberals.

Bottom line...they don't like the white European Jews being in their land, and those Kings and Ayatollahs don't like a Democracy being there either...I don't really blame them for that on the European Jew thing...that doesn't mean you exterminate them, as the Muslims have already attempted to do, twice.

And you don't blame America for it...you blame Europe for it. They're the ones behind it...they didn't want the Jews there. Not just Germany, but Great Britain and France as well.




Depends on if I thought he was going to shoot me or not...if he was saying he was going to shoot me, yes I would...I wouldn't have an alternative.

The ignorance presented in your post is beyond me...every thing you just stated was your opinion, and the palestenians are from the neighboring arab countries? WTF are you smoking? Most of them have migrated there and what you don't seem to understand is that all the jews from israel were brought from europe and russia, fully paid for by the Israeli government.

You feel that the Saudi gov should be toppled...

I'm going to take the advice of the guy earlier. You are not prepared to look at the facts, but you go and ramble your opinion and twist it around with your philosophy. The fact you keep it secluded mostly to the internet is a good enough reason.

[Shastafarian]

I'm going to take the advice of the guy earlier. You are not prepared to look at the facts, but you go and ramble your opinion and twist it around with your philosophy. The fact you keep it secluded mostly to the internet is a good enough reason.

He's what they like to call "internet tough guys".

[sook]

He's what they like to call "internet tough guys".

or the typical right wing bag that holds his opinion to be law.

[whottt]

Then you don't know exactly how my family died.

You're right, I don't know how exactly how your family died because I know don't who you are and I have never met you before and this maybe the second time I have posted to you. You are a total stranger to me. You're absolutely right that I do not know that. And I am sincerely sorry that your family is dead, but it will not change my opinion.

I've got two wars where Israel was attacked on virtually all sides by the Arab countries to prove that any threat by any country in that region towards Israel is one that is to be taken seriously.

[mavs>spurs2]

You're right, I don't know how exactly how your family died because I know don't who you are and I have never met you before and this maybe the second time I have posted to you. You are a total stranger to me. You're absolutely right that I do not know that. And I am sincerely sorry that your family is dead, but it will not change my opinion.

I've got two wars where Israel was attacked on virtually all sides by the Arab countries to prove that any threat by any country in that region towards Israel is one that is to be taken seriously.

Israel can take care of themselves, they've got alot of our technology. Any arabic country would be down right foolish to attack Israel

[Shastafarian]

I've got two wars where Israel was attacked on virtually all sides by the Arab countries to prove that any threat by any country in that region towards Israel is one that is to be taken seriously.

Do you really have no clue how wars are run? Or do you really think Iran is going to attempt to invade Israel?

[bonnington]

You're right, I don't know how exactly how your family died because I know don't who you are and I have never met you before and this maybe the second time I have posted to you. You are a total stranger to me. You're absolutely right that I do not know that. And I am sincerely sorry that your family is dead, but it will not change my opinion.

I've got two wars where Israel was attacked on virtually all sides by the Arab countries to prove that any threat by any country in that region towards Israel is one that is to be taken seriously.

I'll give you some info on me then.

I was born in Argentina, I am Jewish, I've lost almost all my family in the holocaust and more some in the Argentine 1976-1983 dictatorship, I made my compulsive military service with the Argentine Army as an infantry man, then emigrated to Israel, where I made my 3 years service in Tzahal. I entered combat in Lebanon during the occupation of the South Lebanon, twice.
I came back to Argentina since that, and I am still listed a s a reserve noncom officer.

And I am an active member of the Israeli pacifist movement, Peace Now.

[sook]

I'll give you some info on me then.

I was born in Argentina, I am Jewish, I've lost almost all my family in the holocaust and more some in the Argentine 1976-1983 dictatorship, I made my compulsive military service with the Argentine Army as an infantry man, then emigrated to Israel, where I made my 3 years service in Tzahal. I entered combat in Lebanon during the occupation of the South Lebanon, twice.
I came back to Argentina since that, and I am still listed a s a reserve noncom officer.

And I am an active member of the Israeli pacifist movement, Peace Now.

So sorry to hear about what your family went through



Its cool to see someone that has done all that, like serve and live in the mideast, hopefully we can argue/relate to some great points

[whottt]

The ignorance presented in your post is beyond me...every thing you just stated was your opinion, and the palestenians are from the neighboring arab countries?

In particular the PLO were expelled from Jordan. It's not my opinion, it is a fact.

There was virtually no opinion in my post and just about everything was indeed a fact, and I guarantee you I have spent more time studying it than you, or anyone else in this thread.

WTF are you smoking? Most of them have migrated there




and what you don't seem to understand is that all the jews from israel were brought from europe and russia, fully paid for by the Israeli government.

You may have all the knowledge in the world on what the situation is in the mid-east, but you have virtually no knowledge of what Europe's goals were. In particular the British and the French..the two countries most responsible for the ed up state of the Middle East(not to mention Asia and Africa).

You feel that the Saudi gov should be toppled...

yes...it has a well over a hundred billion dollar economy only 30 million people and about 25% unemployment...it is a completely incompetent government...that is also arguably the most oppressive on Earth.

I'm going to take the advice of the guy earlier. You are not prepared to look at the facts,

I'll trade facts with you all you want...

Let's do that, let's trade facts. Which facts would you like to see?

but you go and ramble your opinion and twist it around with your philosophy.

My philosophy comes from looking at things from every perspective, from the inside out and the outside in, not just one.

And there is some interpretation there...but at least it's my own, and no someone elses, as your "knowledge" is.

The fact you keep it secluded mostly to the internet is a good enough reason.

Well buddy...I'm not really impressed with your opinion either...the fact that you think all Jews aren't Israelis is some kind of elite knowledge pretty much guarantees you are stupider than I am.


Let's trade some facts...which facts would you like to trade?

[Findog]

Israel can take care of themselves, they've got alot of our technology. Any arabic country would be down right foolish to attack Israel

Israel will never be attacked directly with nukes. I don't think it's plausible to think that a "dirty" bomb will ever be set off in Tel Aviv because they would hold the Iranians responsible. Israel has two problems: the Palestinian birthrate and suicide bombers strapping themselves with TNT.

[Shastafarian]

There was virtually no opinion in my post and just about everything was indeed a fact, and I guarantee you I have spent more time studying it than you, or anyone else in this thread.

From books and classes on the matter? Or are you just full of ? That's a rhetorical question. I know you're full of (not to mention arrogance).

[whottt]

I'll give you some info on me then.

I was born in Argentina, I am Jewish, I've lost almost all my family in the holocaust and more some in the Argentine 1976-1983 dictatorship, I made my compulsive military service with the Argentine Army as an infantry man, then emigrated to Israel, where I made my 3 years service in Tzahal. I entered combat in Lebanon during the occupation of the South Lebanon, twice.
I came back to Argentina since that, and I am still listed a s a reserve noncom officer.

And I am an active member of the Israeli pacifist movement, Peace Now.

Ok no for my question, what does this have to do with my statement that the holocaust would not shock the Iranian leadership? In a region of the world where Israel has twice been attacked on all sides and the Iranians have 30 years now of being sworn to the destruction of Israel?

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

[sook]

Well buddy...I'm not really impressed with your opinion either...the fact that you think all Jews aren't Israelis is some kind of elite knowledge pretty much guarantees you are stupider than I am.


Let's trade some facts...which facts would you like to trade?

Stop right there...please don't dig your hole any deeper. Your still adhering to all jews being Israelis? There are jews all over the world and a lot of them don't have Israeli passports.

If all jews were israelis then that means that all of them would hold an Israeli passport you cretin

I know jews that ing hate israel and some that really don't give a about it

[whottt]

Stop right there...please don't dig your hole any deeper. Your still adhering to all jews being Israelis? There are jews all over the world and a lot of them don't have Israeli passports.

If all jews were israelis then that means that all of them would hold an Israeli passport you cretin

Idiot...when and where did I state all Jews are Israelis?

[Shastafarian]

Stop right there...please don't dig your hole any deeper. Your still adhering to all jews being Israelis? There are jews all over the world and a lot of them don't have Israeli passports.

If all jews were israelis then that means that all of them would hold an Israeli passport you cretin

No I think he was making fun of your assertion that not all jews are israelis. He claims you made it seem like "elite knowledge". Don't pay attention to him. He studied the matter more than you or me or bonnington (who has Israeli citizenship and has fought for Israel). He's always right. No one can question whottt's superior intelligence. He is master of OUR domain.

[bonnington]

.