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  1. #151
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    It's cool how we all became economists overnight. I'm not going to pretend to know what could happen next. Once investors start ting their pants, all bets are off.
    They are not economists.
    They are angry and scared folks repeating dogmatic mantras.

    And they certainly know little about the lessons of 1929.

  2. #152
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I wonder how low the Dow goes before Thursday.

  3. #153
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    A little economic collapse never killed anyone.
    And major one?

  4. #154
    Veteran Indazone's Avatar
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    The Dollar Drop Continues
    How far will the Dollar drop? And why the Fed can't save it. Free rpt
    www.MoneyMorning.com/dollar





    Despite what our politicians are telling us, experts in other lands have issued the warning: Economic collapse within three months.
    The Royal Bank of Scotland has advised clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation paralyses the major central banks.
    “A very nasty period is soon to be upon us - be prepared,” said Bob Janjuah, the bank’s credit strategist.
    A very nasty period indeed.
    Ron Paul was right. Globalization, according to Janjuah, the Royal Bank’s credit strategist.:
    Globalisation was always going to risk putting G7 bankers into a dangerous corner at some point. We have got to that point,” he said.
    Federal Reserve:
    US Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank both face a Hobson’s choice as workers start to lose their jobs in earnest and lenders cut off credit.
    The authorities cannot respond with easy money because oil and food costs continue to push headline inflation to levels that are unsettling the markets. “The ugly spoiler is that we may need to see much lower global growth in order to get lower inflation,” he said.
    The Fed is in panic mode. The massive credibility chasms down which the Fed and maybe even the ECB will plummet when they fail to hike rates in the face of higher inflation will combine to give us a big sell-off in risky assets,” he said.
    The collapse of the dollar:
    Just as then, the dollar has plummeted far enough to cause worldwide alarm. In August 1992 it fell to 1.35 against the Deutsche Mark: this time it has fallen even further to the equivalent of 1.25. It is potentially worse for Europe this time because the yen and yuan have also fallen to near record lows. So has sterling.
    Inflationary Depression is nearly upon us. Ron Paul was right, and he is being proven out in the most dire of ways. The Fed will save the banks like Morgan Stanley and Lehman, EVEN AT THE EXPENSE OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.
    Our government is NOT our friend, even with ‘representatives’ of the people, since they have been bought and sold like cattle.
    Brace yourselves, people. About 7 million died because of the last Great Depression. That was without a war, without martial law, without China being a well-armed enemy threatening war.

  5. #155
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I agree with that as well, and I am one of those people who are ardently against any bailout.

    $700 billion dollars. $85 Billion for AIG alone. I got an email today that said there are roughly 200 million people in the country who are 18+ years of age. If we all got a cut of that...

    85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425,000 per adult.

    If it were......awww it, I'll just cut+paste.



    Dont tell me about the guy who started it. I dont know, nor care. No, I dont think every adult should get that money either. I think no one should get it because it doesnt exist.
    The problem with this is Bond Insurance.

    Many bond issuers buy bond insurance to make up for a slightly lower credit rating, and get their bond rated higher for a lower interest rate.

    Much of the calculation about the worth of that bond is based on having this insurance.

    Now the insurer goes under and there IS no more insurance for that bond.

    The value of that bond, an asset on the books of the owner is suddenly MUCH less.

    Instant write down of that bond, and the bond holders, say, Joe Schmoe Midsize to Smallish Bank of America, who thought they had Grade A bonds and that their portfolio was invested in a prudent, conservative manner wake up to find that their portfolio was MUCH riskier and worth less than it was the day before.

    Their assets take an instant write down, and this evaporates their reserves.

    Once their reserves evaporate, their ability to loan money, even to outstandingly great credit risks evaporate with it.

    This is a perfect example of how AIG taking it in the ass will end up ing people with great credit, and banks that invested conservatively and safely.

    To be sure, I am not entirely sure how big AIG's bond insurance arm was/is, but it is something that should give one pause.

  6. #156
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    completely wrong. Nobody told the average american that it was a bad, bad idea to take these loans. The goverment should have warned average Joe, that is their job, to protect the ppl. So 'we all took advantage' is way off. More like, the banks took advantage of average Joe.

    Now, the bill is being put on the average american while the banks and rich corporate make money regardless. So 'the bill needs to get paid' is off too. More like, the bill that the banks should be paying is being paid by average Joe.
    There are laws in place to protect the average joe from getting into something they shouldn't. The middle men and lenders broke the law thousands if not millions of times by telling bold face lies to the consumers. Thats not the entire problem though. Lots of people were forclosed on that had normal simple interest loans. They were either over extended or they couldn't keep up with the massive inflation that dropped on us like a ton of bricks.

    However there were people that knew what they were getting into and chose to do it anyway.

  7. #157
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    A little economic collapse never killed anyone.


    what a moron...

    it's gonna be at least the worst economic disaster since great depression.

  8. #158
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The problem with this is Bond Insurance.

    Many bond issuers buy bond insurance to make up for a slightly lower credit rating, and get their bond rated higher for a lower interest rate.

    Much of the calculation about the worth of that bond is based on having this insurance.

    Now the insurer goes under and there IS no more insurance for that bond.

    The value of that bond, an asset on the books of the owner is suddenly MUCH less.

    Instant write down of that bond, and the bond holders, say, Joe Schmoe Midsize to Smallish Bank of America, who thought they had Grade A bonds and that their portfolio was invested in a prudent, conservative manner wake up to find that their portfolio was MUCH riskier and worth less than it was the day before.

    Their assets take an instant write down, and this evaporates their reserves.

    Once their reserves evaporate, their ability to loan money, even to outstandingly great credit risks evaporate with it.

    This is a perfect example of how AIG taking it in the ass will end up ing people with great credit, and banks that invested conservatively and safely.

    To be sure, I am not entirely sure how big AIG's bond insurance arm was/is, but it is something that should give one pause.
    Exactly! And what is worse is that when these assets dry up the insurace comapnies themselves have to demonstrate the capital on hand to pay out on these policies. When AIG wasn't able to do that it kicks in automatic payout of those policies which then triggers other insurance down the line.

    Its a huge ing chain reaction. And its true that much of our economy is built on this house of cards and that its going to collapse unless we fix it, but that doesn't mean letting it fall right now is the best option.

  9. #159
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I'm just glad I moved 401K funds before it all started going to . Went with the safest, yet lowest yielding fund.

  10. #160
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Boy it takes balls to make that statement...the only people I see flailing around like pussies are the ones upset the bailout didn't go through today.


    I know I've been flailing around like a pussy all day while rocks of Gibralter like you smeagol, Manny and Random Guy have been pervasive calming influences.

    It is not the job of a good analyst to smooth anyone's feelings.

    It is the job of a good analyst to state their best guess as to what is most likely to happen.

    I have done so, as have you.

    The great thing is that we all get to see who ends up being right.

    You say I am not as smart as I think I am, and I think the same thing about your dumb ass.

    This will let us get a verdict from the ultimate judge and jury: reality.

    As Manny said: we'll see.

  11. #161
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    completely wrong. Nobody told the average american that it was a bad, bad idea to take these loans. The goverment should have warned average Joe, that is their job, to protect the ppl. So 'we all took advantage' is way off. More like, the banks took advantage of average Joe.

    Average Joe had a blast with the extra cash generated by paying initially a low interest rate on their mortgage, or by taking a second mortgage or an equity loan, or by maxing out his credit cards.

    Average Joe is not blameless. He partied and now the light are off.


    Now, the bill is being put on the average american while the banks and rich corporate make money regardless. So 'the bill needs to get paid' is off too. More like, the bill that the banks should be paying is being paid by average Joe.
    You don't get it. Bill or no bill, Average Joe will suffer. I say Average Joe will suffer less if the bill passes, genius whottt says the contrary.

  12. #162
    Believe. KenMcCoy's Avatar
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    I'm just glad I moved 401K funds before it all started going to . Went with the safest, yet lowest yielding fund.
    If you are young enough...now is a good time to buy.

  13. #163

  14. #164
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    audits for businesses with revolving loans are gonna be a .

    businesses that make payroll based on that revolving loan are gonna get slammed.

    banks are not going to be able to afford their contractor auditers.

    snake eating it's tail.

  15. #165
    Believe. KenMcCoy's Avatar
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    Also...as the real estate starts to bottom out it's a good time to buy real estate as well...if you have good credit, banks will be begging people to take some of these foreclosures off of their books. Personally, I can't wait...finally get that vacation house I've been looking for for the last year or so.

  16. #166

  17. #167
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Also...as the real estate starts to bottom out it's a good time to buy real estate as well...if you have good credit, banks will be begging people to take some of these foreclosures off of their books. Personally, I can't wait...finally get that vacation house I've been looking for for the last year or so.
    buying a few 100k houses in foreclosure won't mean . won't solve anything.

    banks are gonna have to start calling in notes to survive without some kind of bailout.

    america will be one big chopshop.

  18. #168
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'm just glad I moved 401K funds before it all started going to . Went with the safest, yet lowest yielding fund.
    I'm glad I moved some of my cash into a CD.

    At WaMu

  19. #169
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    at the media always getting these shots.

    I wonder if they ever think "I've got to scratch my eye, it's killing me. I know they are watching... it really itches...think about something else...aww screw it."

  20. #170
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Also...as the real estate starts to bottom out it's a good time to buy real estate as well...if you have good credit, banks will be begging people to take some of these foreclosures off of their books. Personally, I can't wait...finally get that vacation house I've been looking for for the last year or so.
    The banks are banking on you wanting to buy into whats an already massively inflated home value by simply telling you that you can get this house for so much below the appraisal value...not a fair market value. You either need to know your or stand back and watch because the appraisals are through the roof and their selling you against the false notion that said appraisal is what the house is worth. I'd pass and invest somewhere else.

    This is the new "employee discount" marketing ploy.

  21. #171
    Believe. KenMcCoy's Avatar
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    buying a few 100k houses in foreclosure won't mean . won't solve anything.

    banks are gonna have to start calling in notes to survive without some kind of bailout.

    america will be one big chopshop.
    lol...you think there aren't a lot of people out there with deep pockets who are ready to pounce all over this??? Warren Buffet - Buying goldman sachs, Trump - already said that he's buying all kinds of real estate, etc.

  22. #172
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Also...as the real estate starts to bottom out it's a good time to buy real estate as well...if you have good credit, banks will be begging people to take some of these foreclosures off of their books. Personally, I can't wait...finally get that vacation house I've been looking for for the last year or so.
    If you have a lot of cash saved up, this will be a bonanza.

    Unfortunately, if assets start drying up, then those banks won't have the money to lend you even if your credit is good, and they will demand an arm and a leg in interest even if so.

  23. #173
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    The banks are banking on you wanting to buy into whats an already massively inflated home value by simply telling you that you can get this house for so much below the appraisal value...not a fair market value. You either need to know your or stand back and watch because the appraisals are through the roof and their selling you against the false notion that said appraisal is what the house is worth. I'd pass and invest somewhere else.

    This is the new "employee discount" marketing ploy.
    Kind of depends on the market. Prices in Texas haven't dropped much because sellers still seem to feel good about inventory levels.

  24. #174
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    I'll put it a different way.
    90k house that appraises at 150k is being sold to you for the low low come buy it now low price of 110k.

    See the savings its over 40k below what its worth. Sign right here.

  25. #175
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    Also...as the real estate starts to bottom out it's a good time to buy real estate as well...if you have good credit, banks will be begging people to take some of these foreclosures off of their books. Personally, I can't wait...finally get that vacation house I've been looking for for the last year or so.
    Word. I wish I were 10-15 years older and had capital to play with right now.

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