Presidential Debate #2 Blog

[MannyIsGod]

How do you guys think they're planning on stabilizing all those bad mortgages, Osmosis?


Hope?


Si Si Puede?

No dumbass, the bailout wasn't ABOUT fixing the mortgages it was about fixing the lack of liquidity in the market leading to a freezing of credit availability. The government wasn't interested in making sure everyone stayed in their home if they defaulted on the loan, they were just interested in getting the loans off the books of the banks and investment ins utions.

Jesus Christ I understand your lack of reality with the results of the race but can you at least not declare yourself the smartest man in America without understanding the intent of the legislation you're commenting on?

If you don't pay your mortgage the government will foreclose on you just like a bank but the point is that its not the banks problem any longer.

And don't you think its really ing stupid to be posting what the politicians WANTED in the legislation when the legislation itself is available? It doesn't matter what I want for Christmas when its New Years, I can just tell you what I actually got.

[whottt]

Oh, I'm sorry.

I forgot to link that quote.

McCain's plan not part of $700B bailout.

You may not want to click it, though. It's a biased information provider.

RIF from your own link:

John McCain's HOME Plan Will Keep 200,000 To 400,000 Families From Losing Their Homes. "But at the same time, McCain is calling for aggressive federal action to help keep 200,000 to 400,000 families from losing their homes. That plan has many of the elements of a proposal by Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., requiring participating lenders to forgive part of the loan principal and then write a new loan that would be backed by the federal government through the Federal Housing Administration." (Tom Raum, "Everyone's Invited: McCain Economic Plan Draws From Both Parties," Tucson Citizen, 4/17/08)

[MannyIsGod]

WHY THE DO YOU THINK MCCAIN IS NOW PROPOSING THAT??

Because it never ing happened before.

[Anti.Hero]

They did the same thing in Europe ("bail out") and the banks just took the capital and stashed it away to cover their asses

[MannyIsGod]

They did the same thing in Europe ("bail out") and the banks just took the capital and stashed it away to cover their asses

Krugman wrote in his blog today that Britian basically took over a good portion of their banking system and the markets reacted much better. When I learned tonight that AIG had a ing 400k junket I pretty much came to the conclusion giving these assholes more money is just not the right course of action. They're so ingrained in this way of running things they will not make good use of it. There has to be serious accountability for the way they run things, and I think a take over might be the only way to make much of this happen.

[Anti.Hero]

I don't know if you are watching the hearings but they had a guy from AIG that took hundreds of millions and he is dropping "I wake up every night and wonder what I could have done..." & "I am heart-broken" lines. It's ridiculous.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know if you are watching the hearings but they had a guy from AIG that took hundreds of millions and he is dropping "I wake up every night and wonder what I could have done..." & "I am heart-broken" lines. It's ridiculous.

Its ing Enron all over again. These execs are just so ing out of touch and I'd wager most of them couldn't give two s about the actual fundementals of their companies just the stock prices and how much compensation they get. They're too ing detached.

[tp2021]

Perhaps someone from mensa can explain to me exactly what whottt is ranting about, because i dont get it.

Do you think they know what it means in spanish?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

RIF from your own link:

RIF from your own quote.

(Tom Raum, "Everyone's Invited: McCain Economic Plan Draws From Both Parties," Tucson Citizen, 4/17/08)

He knew the bailout was coming 6 months in advance?

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

Anyone else count the "My friends" mentions?
17

[whottt]

No dumbass, the bailout wasn't ABOUT fixing the mortgages it was about fixing the lack of liquidity in the market leading to a freezing of credit availability.

Um...dumbass, do you realize that money can be used to purchase mortgages, do you realize the government will then own the mortgages and be able to do whatever they want with them?

In addition, do you realize they just took over Fannie and Freddie?

I see, mean what do you think the main things they are going to be purchasing with that money are?

Do you have any idea at all?



[Hint: The government would prefer not to buy a bunch of toilet paper if possible, since they just Nationalized the secondary mortgage holders and guarantors for several trillion dollars worth of faulty ing mortgages...it doesn't take a ing genius to figure out the #1 way to do that.


PS: Foreclosing is about stupidest thing they could do in a depressed economy. It makes much more sense to refinance those loans, they can make a of a lot more money long term off the re-financing, and it ups the value and the resellability the mortgage backed securties they have.


But what I do know...I was just a Real Estate Agent 2 years ago, and a Series 7 test away from being a strockbroker, last summer...


But beyond all that, I possess the genius to read articles on why they threw the original Paulson bill out....because he could give that money away in whatever way he wanted, with no conditions, on whichever debt he wanted...and now he can't, that's all the language they needed to be able to do this.

The government wasn't interested in making sure everyone stayed in their home if they defaulted on the loan, they were just interested in getting the loans off the books of the banks and investment ins utions.

Um...they sure as were, that's one of the main reasons the first proposal by Paul was shot down.

Sin,

Barney Frank

Jesus Christ I understand your lack of reality with the results of the race but can you at least not declare yourself the smartest man in America without understanding the intent of the legislation you're commenting on?

If you don't pay your mortgage the government will foreclose on you just like a bank but the point is that its not the banks problem any longer.

PSST: Real Estate 101, nothing kills the value of homes like foreclosing, not the just the foreclosed homes, but all the homes surrounding them.

In addition, credit and down payment reqa for new home owners is going up now, after it was extremely easy...exactly who are they going to sell all these foreclosed homes too? All the people that couldn't do it when it was easier? Yeah...that's a way to prevent more of the ty mortgages that got us into this mess.

And don't you think its really ing stupid to be posting what the politicians WANTED in the legislation when the legislation itself is available? It doesn't matter what I want for Christmas when its New Years, I can just tell you what I actually got.

They got it.

[MannyIsGod]

They didn't get it. Thats the point as to why McCain was proposing it tonight. As it stands, the government has no authority to refinance those loans. Thats all thats needed to point out how many holes your argument has.

[whottt]

RIF from your own quote.



He knew the bailout was coming 6 months in advance?

Paulson on Dec 3rd 2007:

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/hp706.htm


BTW, thanks for pointing out it wasn't new, which was my entire point...

That makes 2 of us...now you and I just have to let every journalist in the United States know it isn't new...and they'll be as smart as we are

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt thinks he's smarter than the guy he wants in office too

McCain pledges to buy up 300 bln in US home loans

3 hours ago
NASHVILLE, Tennessee (AFP) — The US government would snap up 300 billion dollars of bad home loans, Republican John McCain vowed Tuesday unveiling a new plan to help struggling homeowners if he is elected president.
"People are no longer able to afford their mortgage payments," said McCain as he laid out what he billed as an original proposal for addressing the grassroots impact of the Wall Street credit crisis.
"As president of the United States, I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes," he said.
Doing so would enable struggling homeowners to meet their mortgage payments and stay in their homes, he told the second of three presidential debates with Democratic rival Barack Obama.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...VONwtfxDUMRPDw

[whottt]

They didn't get it. Thats the point as to why McCain was proposing it tonight. As it stands, the government has no authority to refinance those loans. Thats all thats needed to point out how many holes your argument has.

Um...they've got 700 billion dollars worth of authority. How much more do they need? They decide on the terms that 700 billion is going to be used.


Furthermore, they can refinance any loan they own, which since they just took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is a load. And as it pertains to the 700 billion, mortgages are the main thing they are going to be purchasing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble...Relief_Program

[whottt]

Whottt thinks he's smarter than the guy he wants in office too




http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...VONwtfxDUMRPDw

What do you mean thinks?


Ok Manny, John McCain is the first one to suggest this and tonight was the first time anyone has mentioned it.


Happy now?

[mouse]

Right

I don't think America is that stupid...it can't be that hard to see Obama bull s his way through everything.

He does it well...but he's still bull ting.

After 8 years of Bush old habits are hard to break.

[whottt]

So just to summarize:

whottt says: He is smarter than every journalist in the United States(which doesn't mean a great deal if you think about it) since they are all calling this housing plan new.

Johnny Blaze: posts link to McCain's own site that proves it's not new.

whottt: posts link to Barney Frank comment to prove it's not new(and was something congress wanted to do with the bailout from the getgo).

whottt: posts link to Paulson article to prove it's not new.


Manny: calls whottt a dumbass and smartass and quotes an article that features a journalist saying...

You guessed it:

It's new

Sigh.


Funniest part is McCain hi-jacked a Democrat idea(one of the few good ones recently) right out from under Obama's nose and Obama didn't even realize he was doing it.

And BTW, the people on the verge of losing their homes are going to love this idea. And everyone is going to be calling it smart(all things considered) in a few days, because it kills 3 bird with one stone...but one thing it won't be, is new.

[timvp]

I just finished watching the debate. It was interesting because you could see the two totally different strategies at work. Obama was obviously debating as if he had a substantial lead in the polls, while McCain debated like he had to score a knockout punch. McCain didn't land anything close to a knockout punch so you have to chalk this up as an Obama victory.

I though McCain had his moments. He started off strong and he had some good moments near the end. He's actually pretty damn good at the town hall format. His interaction with the audience comes across as natural and he does a good job of trying to answer the questions. Although it does hurt him pretty substantially that he moves like a robot without enough lube. He lost his composure a few times and that "we'll help you with your mortgage" routine rang hollow and sounded like a lie but overall, he gave a valiant effort.

Obama just did what he had to do. He was like a boxer with a reach advantage near the end of the fight who knew he was in the lead on the scorecards that just kept his opponent at bay. He'd counter punch when McCain left himself vulnerable but then he'd back away and go back into defensive mode. It was a safe strategy that focused mostly on protection with a few power punches of his own to keep McCain from being able to tee off.

But seriously, Obama was very Sarah Palin-esque during the debate. He only had a set amount of talking points he'd go to and he wouldn't stray off of those talking points. The result is he hardly ever answered any question directly. He'd answer the questions by using the talking point that was the most closely related to the question -- which is what Palin did for the most part. The difference is Obama is a lawyer who can talk his way around a topic to give the illusion that he answered the question, while Palin had to use other less polished means to avoid the questions. But an Obama supported who blasted Palin can't honestly sit there and praise Obama when he just did the same damn thing. In fact, I'd say he answered less questions directly than even Palin did. It was a very good strategy by Obama and it worked perfectly but I'm interested in seeing how many Obama supporters will admit the similarities. I won't hold my breath.

Like I've said before, I'm damn impressed by the craftiness of the Democrats this time around. They're orchestrating this final push perfectly so far. Obama didn't even give McCain a chance to win this debate. He came in prepared with a very good strategy and it was over. Very few of McCain's punches landed ... and even those were glancing blows.

My one real complaint about Obama is he would frustrate me when he'd have McCain on the ropes and then he'd start bumbling his words. I lost count of how many mixed metaphors and just plain wrong words he said. He could have destroyed McCain around the time he dropped the "bomb bomb Iran" line but he dropped the ball when he went with green behind the ears instead of wet behind the ears. That just made him sound dumb. The other one that stuck out to me was near the end was when Obama was rolling with his "I'm a product of America and I'm thankful" thoughts but then he F'ed it up by saying country instead of world.

Thankfully for Obama he didn't have to connect on those barbs. He did well enough just keeping McCain from doing anything of note. Technically I'd say McCain was much better than Obama at connecting with the audience (Obama had a vibe as if he was the teacher and the audience were the students ... which isn't the way town hall debates should feel) and McCain was better at actually answering questions directly, but Obama has to be considered the winner.

[florige]

SO what is "my Friends" his new catch phrase. I didn't hear Maverick one time.

Bush really ed up for the Republicans this time around.

[ratm1221]

I didn't get the feeling at all like McCain was natural. His jokes seemed uncomfortable, and he came across patronizing. He spoke down to the crowd instead of to the crowd with comments like "you've probably never even heard of Fannie Mae before this crisis" or "they like to call them "Medical Errors"." He also came across as an asshole when he kept walking around and acting like he wasn't paying attention or motioning to someone in the crowd while his opponent was speaking. Obama sat right there and listened intently while McCain had the floor.

[Shastafarian]

How about John McCain last night HHEEEEHHHH? HHEEHHHH?

[Findog]

All I know is that ONLY John McCain has the courage to get to the bottom of OVERHEAD PROJECTOR-GATE. Just like he's the ONLY candidate who has the courage to do something about Bear Semen Subsidies!

[Findog]

John McCain: "My friends, when I'm President, I'll stand up for you and do something about all this bear . Senator Obama voted FOR bear . That's not the kind of on the job training we can afford in these troubled times."

[RandomGuy]

McCain's "my friends" really started to get on my nerves.

Both candidates have their verbal tics, but I really hate it when a guy who is interviewing with me for a job he wants tries to buddy up to me.