Past Trade Target: Richard Jefferson

[objective]

if the Spurs are going to overpay someone drastically to play the wing, much better Vince Carter than Richard Jefferson.

[exstatic]

In other words I rather use that 14.6 million on a STUD than use that 14.6 million on 2 more Oberto's and 2 more Udoka's.

RJ has never been, and will never BE a STUD in the NBA. On most teams, he'd be a complementary 2nd or 3rd option. On the Spurs, you could literally watch his scoring drop to about 12-13 points as the #4 banana. Way too much money for that.

I've always categorized RJ in that Shawn Marion box: he's not a guy who can lead a team or even take over a game. His game is WAY to dependent on other people. He's never going to put a team on his back and win a series for you. He can't create. He literally needs to be spoonfed his offense. With that in mind, 14.6 million is WAY too much cap money to spend on him. He's not a difference maker, but he's making difference maker money. That's slow cap death. There's a reason NJ dumped him and MIL is looking to do the same.

[MaNu4Tres]

RJ has never been, and will never BE a STUD in the NBA. On most teams, he'd be a complementary 2nd or 3rd option. On the Spurs, you could literally watch his scoring drop to about 12-13 points as the #4 banana. Way too much money for that.

I've always categorized RJ in that Shawn Marion box: he's not a guy who can lead a team or even take over a game. His game is WAY to dependent on other people. He's never going to put a team on his back and win a series for you. He can't create. He literally needs to be spoonfed his offense. With that in mind, 14.6 million is WAY too much cap money to spend on him. He's not a difference maker, but he's making difference maker money. That's slow cap death. There's a reason NJ dumped him and MIL is looking to do the same.

Milwaukee is looking to dump him because of the economy, not because of his play. He had the best year out of anyone on that team. And 14.6 million for 2 more years isn't exactly cap death. Maybe if his deal was for another 4-5 years yes. But it isn't.

Jefferson is a stud. Maybe not a star. But he's a stud for sure. He'd fit in perfectly as a Spur.

[baseline bum]

Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

[MaNu4Tres]

Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

59.7 million plus

George Hill 1.08
Ian Mahimni 1.08
Kurt Thomas 3.80 ( which could be traded in a sign and trade to bring in Sheed or McDyess)
Finley's 2.5
Gist/Hairston/ Williams won't make more than a million
Bowen for the minimum after he is bought out by Milwaukee.
Add in a couple of minimum deals.

In other words it can happen, if they aren't concerned with the 11-15 players that are on our roster.

[MaNu4Tres]

Bowen 4.0 million
Oberto 3.5 million
Mason 3.78 million
Bonner 3.24 million
14.52 million

So we are spending 14.52 million on Oberto, Bonner, Bowen, Mason

So you are telling me you rather have these 4 players than Richard Jefferson?

The best of that bunch is Mason and he is about as valuable as Michael Finley since their skills are pretty much identical except for the fact that Mason can dribble the ball up the court better. I'd even have to say Finley is a better defender than Mason .

And with this trade Milwaukee would most likely cut Bowen and Oberto, so we could resign them both for the minimum.

So basically we could be trading Bonner and Mason for Richard Jefferson.

It's not a Spurfan masturbation thread, Milwaukee is in trouble financially and were willing to trade Jefferson to Portland for Lafrentz and a throw in last year at the deadline.

[Mel_13]

59.7 million plus

George Hill 1.08
Ian Mahimni 1.08
Kurt Thomas 3.80 ( which could be traded in a sign and trade to bring in Sheed or McDyess)
Finley's 2.5
Gist/Hairston/ Williams won't make more than a million
Bowen for the minimum after he is bought out by Milwaukee.
Add in a couple of minimum deals.

In other words it can happen, if they aren't concerned with the 11-15 players that are on our roster.

You're still over the tax and your depth chart looks like this.

TD/Gist/Minimum Guy
KT/Ian/Minimum Guy
RJ/Bowen/Hairston
Manu/Finley/Williams
Parker/Hill/Minimum Guy

That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

[MaNu4Tres]

You're still over the tax and your depth chart looks like this.

TD/Gist/Minimum Guy
KT/Ian/Minimum Guy
RJ/Bowen/Hairston
Manu/Finley/Williams
Parker/Hill/Minimum Guy

That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

Who would u rather have?

Bonner and Mason or Richard Jefferson?

[Mel_13]

Who would u rather have?

Bonner and Mason or Richard Jefferson?

What difference does it make? This is about the simple math, not about the indisputable fact that RJ is a better player than everyone on the Spurs not named Tim, Tony or Manu.

You cannot add RJ's contract to the Big 3, fill out the rest of the roster, AND stay under the luxury tax unless you are going to have a Big 4 and 9-11 players on minimum deals.

The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[Marcus Bryant]

Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

Well, it was $10 Mil, but I agree.

[baseline bum]

Well, it was $10 Mil, but I agree.

Didn't the team have an option on the final year of Butler's contract? They already paid the first of that 3-year deal.

[MaNu4Tres]

What difference does it make? This is about the simple math, not about the indisputable fact that RJ is a better player than everyone on the Spurs not named Tim, Tony or Manu.

You cannot add RJ's contract to the Big 3, fill out the rest of the roster, AND stay under the luxury tax unless you are going to have a Big 4 and 9-11 players on minimum deals.

The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Then why were the Spurs rumored in about every reliable source on the web about trading for Vince Carter.

[Mel_13]

Then why were the Spurs rumored in about every reliable source on the web about trading for Vince Carter.

and no trade took place

[MaNu4Tres]

and no trade took place

You didn't answer my question. You claim it would be virtually impossible, yet it was everywhere on the web and news saying it was close to happening.

[Mel_13]

You didn't answer my question. You claim it would be virtually impossible, yet it was everywhere on the web and news saying it was close to happening.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? How can I possibly account for why a rumor did not come true. There is no way to know the exact parameters of whatever deal was discussed.

There were rumors of talks. If there were talks, the obstacles proved too great to reach an agreement. The lack of a deal would indicate that it was unacceptable to at least side. I have no idea which side or why. Do you have some spycam info you would like to share?

Are you saying that trade rumors are somehow proof that the Spurs are willing to exceed the lux tax?


Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

[MaNu4Tres]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? How can I possibly account for why a rumor did not come true. There is no way to know the exact parameters of whatever deal was discussed.

There were rumors of talks. If there were talks, the obstacles proved too great to reach an agreement. The lack of a deal would indicate that it was unacceptable to at least side. I have no idea which side or why. Do you have some spycam info you would like to share?

Are you saying that trade rumors are somehow proof that the Spurs are willing to exceed the lux tax?


Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

I love you too Mel 13, when I get home at around 3 a.m I will be happy to figure out a scenario. Unfortunately due to women and alcohol, I will not be able to accommodate you at this time. But I will figure out a scenario. GO SPURS GO

[Mel_13]

I love you too Mel 13, when I get home at around 3 a.m I will be happy to figure out a scenario. Unfortunately due to women and alcohol, I will not be able to accommodate you at this time. But I will figure out a scenario. GO SPURS GO

good luck with the women and the alcohol, I trust you'll have a greater chance of success with that. Sounds like more fun, too.

[TheSpursFNRule]

good luck with the women and the alcohol, I trust you'll have a greater chance of success with that. Sounds like more fun, too.

Mel 13 who will we land this summer if anyone?

[Ditty]

this trade will not happen

financial reasons

guarnteed

thread closed

[MaNu4Tres]

SpursOWn Texas= Ms. Cleo

[angelbelow]

im personally a fan of RJ. his contract isnt very nice though..

[Bruno]

I haven't look closely at the financial side but it will be damn hard to get RJ, have a good team and not go significantly over the tax.

Filling the perimeter won't be a problem. In the playoffs, Parker will play 36mpg, Ginobili 32mpg and RJ 38mpg.
Hill and his $1.1M contract can play the backup PG spot and some minutes a the SG.
To play the 10mpg behind RJ and some minutes at the SG spot, you can re-sign Bruce for the min and a shooter like Wally Szczerbiak for the min.

The true problem will be to get cheap and efficient bigs. It's even problematic that Spurs can't count on Mahinmi, who is a huge question mark, and Splitter, who will stay in Spain.

[Mel_13]

Mel 13 who will we land this summer if anyone?

Too many variables to know or even have a good guess.

But with the Spurs having 45.5M committed to the Big 3 and lux tax of around 71M, that leaves about 25.5M for the rest of the roster.

If the Spurs make a trade for a proven NBA starter, I believe the upper salary limit for that player will 9-10M. That leaves 15-16M for 9-10 players. Once you go much higher, the rest of the roster must be filled primarily with rookies and vet minimum contracts.

[Mel_13]

I haven't look closely at the financial side but it will be damn hard to get RJ, have a good team and not go significantly over the tax.

Filling the perimeter won't be a problem. In the playoffs, Parker will play 36mpg, Ginobili 32mpg and RJ 38mpg.
Hill and his $1.1M contract can play the backup PG spot and some minutes a the SG.
To play the 10mpg behind RJ and some minutes at the SG spot, you can re-sign Bruce for the min and a shooter like Wally Szczerbiak for the min.

The true problem will be to get cheap and efficient bigs. It's even problematic that Spurs can't count on Mahinmi, who is a huge question mark, and Splitter, who will stay in Spain.

And thus my contention that if the Spurs do trade for a 10M+ player, it will be for a big, not a perimeter player. It seems much more likely to find someone cheap for the perimeter, like Houston did with Wafer and Denver did with Jones, than to find a rotation quality big off the scrap heap.

[intlspurshk]

SPURS need to give up Manu for RJ and then use MLE to sign a young center. To re-energize the team, it's good to try this route. A heathy Manu can't help SPURS to get past Lakers anyway and I can project more injury for Manu in the coming seasons.

SPURS can include Bonner or Mason in the trade to get a big from Buck too like CV