Wasn't sure where to put this, but I figured this was as good a place as any, since there was some 76ers/Brand discussion here.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...ping-no-2-pick
A number of teams have already looked into the availability of the Philadelphia 76ers' No. 2 pick in the June 24 draft.
The asking price? Several sources said they were told that the Sixers want their trade partner to take Elton Brand off their hands. Good luck with that. With Brand set to earn $51 million over the course of the next three years, he's virtually impossible to trade.
As much as teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, for instance, love Evan Turner, I don't think they love him that much.
Did not see anything about this posted already, sorry if I missed it...
But who (of interest) could we get with the Hairston, Gee, Jerrels (Temple if needed) trade chip? I think those young guys, non-guaranteed, will be a big time chip come draft time. Who has a salary that would match?
They make so little already that any trade would have to be rookies for rookies, and considering we chose them out of the NBDL, we must already be happy (or at least optimistic) with them.
Anthony Randolph has the potential to be a top-15 player in the NBA.
Good chance he won't reach it the way things are going, but the upside is there and it's so massive there's no way I'd pass on it.
Tony Parker + 2010 20th pick + 2011 first rounder for Devin Harris + Terrance Williams + 2010 #3 Pick.
hm. if taking Brand is the price, I can see Cuban (once more) jump in. as far as I understood it the Dampier contract didn't become guaranteed for the next season. (some complicated minutes played clause).
Mavs even have a possible trade sweetener in Beaubois.
Dampier/Haywood didn't get it done. as much as Brand disappointed in Philly, he still is an upgrade over the Mavs current post players. and money has never bees an issue. plus Turner (or Favors) as the real deal. wow.
I think Cuban would have to throw in Beabouis...
From what I heard Philly wants someone to take Brand and to give them something good talented young pieces in return.
Is there anyway we can get Rudy Fernandez? He wants a trade.......
No...The blazers would rather see him go to europe probably before trying to trade him to the spurs.
Turkoglu really wants to leave Toronto, I wonder if Spurs can work something with him.
His contract is:
10-11: $9.8M
11-12: $10.6M
12-13: $11.4M
13-14: $12M (player option)
Maybe Turkoglu can agree to renounce his player option to be traded. It won't be a $12M loss since he will get back $4.8M in a trade bonus and he should pay less taxes in Texas than in Toronto. He will also be a FA one year sooner and could get some money with a new contract.
After the trade, his contract could be:
10-11: $11.4M
11-12: $12.2M
12-13: $13M
That's a lot of money but it's less horrible than the original contract. A trade like Turkoglu + Bellineli + #13 for Jefferson + #20 could be tempting. It could even be more tempting if Spurs can do it without adding the #20 pick. At #13, Spurs could really get a player they like George or maybe even Henry.
That's what I was thinking.
Turk, Belinelli and #13 for Jefferson.
Since we'd be taking on the contracts of both Turk and Belinelli and they're getting an expiring contract in Jefferson I wouldn't give up our 20 pick.
We'd end up with two good first round picks plus a capable player in Turk who's played here before.
From a basketball standpoint, I really like this proposal. You get shooting and size on the wing, another playmaker that could share point guard responsibilities with Hill and you're adding a Hedo that's both played in the Spurs' system and blossomed into a player the Spurs never saw in the Black and Silver -- Hedo was a bit of a reclamation project upon entering San Antonio and was struggling both with the system and the ability to find and develop his game as a young player that was just given up on at his last stop, Sacramento.
So that's for the here and now. Turkoglu is an upgrade over Jefferson (even if not the perfect fit still) and Belinelli could fill Mason's void.
But having the ability to acquire the #13 without losing the #20 could really be a godsend to this team. Sure, there's a great possibility one or both could really help you now but it gives you the opportunity to find two more building blocks for the future that will be on rookie-scale contracts for the next 4 years. You'd also be able to draft the best player available basically because your wing will basically be set -- the defensive wing is still a question mark but it may already be on your roster or you could use one of the 2 first-rounders or your second-rounder on a player if you believe he's up to the challenge; my guess is that's a role more suited to a veteran or player that's been in the Spurs' system for a while.
The huge question mark is the added salary and if the organization feels this is a strong enough move for the here-and-now and sets them up for the future in a way that the expense could be tolerated. I'm just not sure how an owner like Holt can keep ponying up the dollars if he's losing money at the gate and not sitting on the mound of cash Cuban, Allen and especially the new kid on the block, Prokhorov have.
Call me crazy but I think with this current group and the way they fit ... the system won't be as detrimental to Turk as it was the first go-around. I'd bite, if offered.
I don't like it, Turkoglu is overrated mostly because of his carrer year in 08, but he really isn't that good. He is not a good finisher at the rim. He can shoot over his defenders because of his height, but he isn't very quick. He is also worse than Jefferson on defense, he has no lateral quickness and he is a terrible rebounder. It is only going to get worse as he ages(think Peja Stojakovic today).
The reason why the Magic traded for Carter is because they didn't want to overpay Turkoglu. 4 years $52 million is an awful lot for a slightly above average player. I also think Turkoglu got a little lazy after he signed that contract, and now he would rather be clubbing out in Toronto than trying to win games.
Intriguing possibility. The increase in future financial obligations is significant, but those are some decent assets in return.
When the Parker to NY rumors bubbled, there was a tweet by Adrian Wojnarowski where he shot down the rumors by saying that David Lee wouldn't fit into the Spurs' salary structure. I wonder if that means the Spurs simply aren't interested in Lee at 10M+ for several years into the future or if it means that they're not interested in adding any large future contracts.
It would seem that the Spurs want to retain the possibility of extending Parker's contract. When you look at major obligations for 2011-12, they have Tim and Manu for about 34M, the buyout of Dice's last year, and the second year of Splitter's deal. That's around 40-42M for three players under the, as yet unknown, terms of the 2011 CBA.
Ownership has authorized greatly increased spending for 2009-10 and 2010-11. Almost any RJ trade would mean extending that increased spending into one or more years beyond 2011-12.
If they add another 10M+ player to the 2011-12 payroll, have they spent themselves out of the ability to afford to keep Parker?
For those of you who barely saw Turkoglu play last season and are just assuming it was a down year by looking at the stats, I can't begin to describe to you just how bad he was. Even if he were motivated (which he wasn't and won't be), what athleticism/quickness he once had has vanished, he can't finish at the rim, is a sub par spot up shooter, an abysmal defender and brings no intangibles to the table. Basically, his one true strength is as a 6-9 (I know he's listed at 6-10, but he's 6-9) passer, who can see over the defense while making passes off the pick and roll.
With Parker/Ginobili, he wouldn't be playing with the ball in his hands on this team. I'd much rather have Jefferson for multiple seasons than have Turkoglu for four more seasons, but the fact that Jefferson is an expiring contract makes this even easier. Turkoglu is NOT an upgrade over Jefferson and would be an even worse fit on this team.
Belinelli, I don't mind. Good shooter and a good ball handler/passer for a two guard. Similar to Re , only he handles better. But he's very hot and cold.
I can't imagine the Spurs even considering this trade. Overall, I'd be stunned if they took on a major long term contract. Particularly for an out of shape player, who lacks intensity, is on the downside and has no real motivation for the rest of his career since this is obviously the last big contract. If the Spurs could get Bosh, they'd take on a major long term contract. Iguodala, maybe. But even him I'd think would be unlikely. Turkoglu, not a chance. Not even a consideration. With the possible exception of Brand, I can't think of a worse contract in the league off the top of my head.
Here's the thing with Jefferson: Even if he's not better next season (I assume he will be), he at least seems like he genuinely cares and I presume is going to go hard because he's playing for the final lucrative contract of his career and his play next season will play a big part in determining just how lucrative that contract is going to be. With Turkoglu, you won't even get that.
Last edited by TD 21; 05-30-2010 at 12:18 AM.
Dream off-season scenario:
-DeJuan Blair, Richard Jefferson, Antonio McDyess, Malik Hairston, Roger Mason (S&T) for Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert, 2nd pick.
-Draft Favors @ 2, George/Babbit @ 20, Pittman @ 49.
-Sign Splitter for the MLE, Sign McGrady for the LLE, sign Dorell Wright for the minimum, re-sign Matt.
C - Dalembert, Splitter, Pittman
PF- Duncan, Favors, Bonner
SF- McGrady, George/Babbit, Wright
SG - Iguodala, Ginobili, Gee
PG - Parker, Hill, Temple
It's free to dream.
no way Sixers do this but the idea of signing McGrady is very interested, he is well behind is prime but maybe he could do what Grant Hill did after his injuries - become great veteran role player!
I'm still curious why people think we could do a S&T with Mason. I mean, really?
disagree here. the numbers are still beyond horrible and neither Belinelli nor the #13 pick would be enough to compensate. (jury is still out if Belinelli can ever become more than a 9th-12th man on a good NBA team).
people have been head-shaking about proposals with lower numbers and better players involved (Maggette, Hamilton, even Igoudala), so going for Hedo in his current shape and his several other issues can't be a good option by any stretch. I guess I would rather go for Brand, before going for Hedo.
(this doesn't mean I would ever go for Brand, this just means that I rank Hedo on this contract as an even worse option.)
Just thought this one up. I think it's doable, but at the same time unlikely. Haven't read through the thread, so maybe someone's brought this up, but...
If George, Babbitt and Henry aren't available at twenty (and it's sounding more and more like the former two won't be, while the latter was never likely to be), then the Spurs should offer the twentieth pick for Anderson.
He'd be a perfect fifth big, because he's a stretch four, young, affordable through 2013 and really, he's better than a fifth big; he's a fourth big with the chance to be a third big. An ideal replacement for Bonner next season and a solid replacement for McDyess two seasons from now. He'd give the Spurs three young, quality bigs to put around Duncan. Plus, assuming Splitter were signed, the Spurs would have the deepest front court in the league next season, which would allow Duncan and McDyess the rest they need to make it through the regular season as fresh and spry as possible.
But as I alluded to, it's unlikely because he's a perfect fit in the Magic's system and unlike a lot of their players, he's young and affordable. The Spurs only hope would be that the Magic were enamored with a player available at twenty and like said player enough to part with Anderson.
The 20th pick in and of itself isn't likely to be all that appealing to the Magic (though they could use a young backup PG; maybe they're a fan of Bledsoe and would do this trade if he's available at twenty? The blow would be softened by moving Anderson because they already have a capable backup PF in Bass, though he lacks the shooting range of Anderson), but if they had the 20th pick in addition to their own pick, 29th, they could package the two together and potentially move into the back end of the lottery, or the mid teens.
Again, maybe they're a fan of Bledsoe, but have to move up to get him? Maybe they go with a young big, like Orton or Whiteside, which frees them up to move Bass or Gortat? Maybe they go with a wing who can shoot, like Henry, Babbitt or George, so that they don't have to overpay to keep Re ? All kinds of possibilities, but it's predicated on them being enamored with a specific player.
Last edited by TD 21; 05-31-2010 at 06:37 PM.
Anderson has had a Bonneritis this year. He has disappeared in the playoffs. He is still young and it was his first playoffs, so it could be understandable but I don't think he is worth giving up #20 after that.
Anderson could be interesting but more in a trade like #20 + non-guaranteed fillers for #29 + Anderson. At #29, Spurs could draft someone like Pondexter.
Keep in mind that in '08 Anderson was the 21st pick, so why exactly would he not be worth giving up the 20th pick for? If this were a loaded draft where the Spurs were virtually guaranteed to get a player of clear cut higher value than Anderson, then I'd agree with you, but I don't see that. He's 22 and just had his first playoffs in his second season. Sure, he didn't play great, but he also only played for two rounds. The sample size is nowhere near big enough to even begin to draw any conclusions.
As I said, I'd only do this trade from the Spurs perspective if George, Babbitt and Henry weren't available at 20. Look at the other options available around the Spurs pick and tell me one that would be a better fit than Anderson?
This would also allow the Spurs to not bury Hairston, Gee and to a lesser extent, Temple. They could sign Jones, have Temple active (which is underrated because this is a team that potentially could blowout a lot of teams next season; no need to further tax Hill in those situations and they won't have to if Temple is active regularly), Hairston, if not fully in the rotation, then on the fringe of it and have Gee primarily in the D-League, but not buried so far on the depth chart that there's virtually no chance that he plays next season barring a rash of injuries.
Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Jefferson, C- Splitter, SG- Hill, PG- Parker
Bench: SG- Ginobili, PF- McDyess, PF- Blair, SF- Jones, SG/SG- Hairston, PF- Anderson, SG/PG- Temple
Inactive/D-League: SF/SG- Gee
Two of the DLeaguers would have to accompany the 20th pick to make it work under the CBA. So, the 29th pick going back with Anderson makes sense in this scenario.
Orlando has some major holes to fill this offseason and they are about 10M over the luxury tax for just eight players and that doesn't include Red , Barnes, Williams, or Johnson (or their replacements). They're moving into a new arena, so there will presumably be increased revenue. If their owners, however, do push for some measures of cost control, they'll have to find a partner who can absorb some of their salary while sending something useful back in return.
The Thunder come to mind as one possible partner. Gortat for Mullens and the 21st pick, for example. For the price of Gortat, Orlando gets a project center, the 21st pick, and the salary savings to keep Red . The Thunder get a good, young center who fits in their salary structure.
I'm all for that, but I doubt the Magic would be.
I'm aware of their situation. Like I said, this move would be predicated on them being enamored with a specific player. I doubt the 20th pick in and of itself is all that appealing to them.
If you're the Spurs and Henry, George and Babbitt are gone, do you make this trade? I definitely would.
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