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  1. #76
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    add Denver, they have a 9.8 million TE from the Camby trade.
    and Miami has a 4.3 million TE, this competes in terms of dump pure potential, but can't be combined with another contract. (so they can swallow a contract of 5.4 million, but not, for example, a player like Miller, Sjax, Camby, VC etc...)
    Yep, and Portland has a 3M+ TE from the Diogu deal as well.

    The Bowen/Oberto deals are tradeable assets, but they are far from unique.

    I can see OKC and MEM essentially holding an auction for chunks of their cap space. In supply/demand terms they control a large portion of the salary dump market. Remember, OKC got two first rounders from PHX for taking KT's contract and then traded him for one more first rounder from the Spurs. It wouldn't be surprising to see similar deals this summer, especially from OKC, where they take on veterans with 1-2 yr deals along with young talent and/or future draft picks in exchange for TEs and cap relief.

  2. #77
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    Yep, and Portland has a 3M+ TE from the Diogu deal as well.

    The Bowen/Oberto deals are tradeable assets, but they are far from unique.

    I can see OKC and MEM essentially holding an auction for chunks of their cap space. In supply/demand terms they control a large portion of the salary dump market. Remember, OKC got two first rounders from PHX for taking KT's contract and then traded him for one more first rounder from the Spurs. It wouldn't be surprising to see similar deals this summer, especially from OKC, where they take on veterans with 1-2 yr deals along with young talent and/or future draft picks in exchange for TEs and cap relief.
    could very well happen like this.
    well, Chris Wallace for sure is to dumb for such moves, but Presti can.
    OKC will see this draft as the last one with a top pick for them in a long time. so they will make the moves based on who they get. but one thing is for sure, they will want to be a player in the 2010 free agency and therefore they need an already compe ive team, because none comes to OKC because of their great beach or their big market.
    so it would make much sense to add a good veteran or two by swallowing their contracts with the available cap space. they will need to improve to a 50% team, to attract some premium FAs in 2010.

  3. #78
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    According to ESPN's Trade Machine a deal I have been thinking about would work out.
    Its a 3-way trade between the spurs / clippers / raptors.

    The Spurs trade G - T.parker $11.3 / C - I. Mahinmi $841K to Clippers
    The Clippers trade G - Baron Davis $11.2 to Raptors
    The Raptors Trade F/C - A. Bargnani $5 mill / G - J. Calderon $7 mill / C/F - P. Mensah Bonsuh to Spurs and also trade G - Q.Douby $1.4 mill to Clippers.

    WHY ?

    The spurs will get a 7'0 F/C ( Bargnani ) who can learn and play next to Tim and also give Tim room to operate downlow because he has a good 3pt shot. Calderon will run a good offense (turnover free pretty much ). He will look for Tim in different areas on the floor and run plays for shooters like Mason Jr. / Finley to come of screens, plus keep the defense honest because of his good shooting from the field and free throw line. Mensah -Bonsuh will provide an athletic big man who can dunk /block shots run the floor and rebound.

    The clippers will get a scoring point guard ( Parker ) with a young team of his own to finally lead and is young / healthy. He will have the ball and can get high percentage shots for himself at anytime and can create for his teammates. Mahinmi will be young big guy that will get playing time and can be developed along with the other young talent on the team. Q. douby ( trade filler ) FYI - Parker wants to go to L.A., a point guard like parker would never work in Lakerville because of the triangle offense. That offense limits point guards to being Jump-shooters ( all-star Gary Payton didn't do well ) also Parker wouldn't have the ball as much because - Kobe /Pau are the 1-2 options. With the Clippers Parker would have the ball all the time, and work with a decent post guy ( Kaman / Randolph ) and a good athletic F ( Thornton ) plus have a whole bunch of athletic guys who can run with him.

    The Raptors Loose bargnani / Calderon, but they gain a point guard who can put up 20-25 points any given night by good shooting and post up as well. can also pass well and run the break. He is more of a run an gun type point guard which will work in Jay Triano's system. Triano is now the official head coach, He wants a more up-tempo style which baron davis can provide. Davis' scoring can also help out Bosh who is the only consistent scorer on the team. They have a few free agents including Shawn Marion, Who might be will to re-sign with toronto because of have a a point guard who likes to run. Similiar to having a bigger steve nash.

    If you agree but want more understanding as to why, Great!!!! , If you disagree I'd be happy to defend my trade and understand your view-point!!! Bottom Line - Just let me know what you think and why.
    Last edited by portnoy1; 05-13-2009 at 02:24 PM.

  4. #79
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Who do you think is better Port, Baron Davis or Calderon?

  5. #80
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    For the spurs or in general?

    For the spurs Calderon.
    In general Davis.

    Why do you ask?

  6. #81
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Why do you think Calderon is better for the Spurs? Doesn't it seem like the Raps and the Spurs are getting screwed in this trade?

  7. #82
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Also, look at the value for their contracts and skill level. How much better in general do you think Davis is than Calderon?

  8. #83
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    First of all the Raptors have calderon, he is not a scoring guard. He pretty much just runs a good offense. With Baron Davis The Raptors will still have the running game they had with calderon. They also have a much much better scorer in baron davis. then also if they dont Re-sign Shawn Marion they can get Richard Jefferson. Now they have 2 guys who can put up 20-30 pts any given night. That makes things easier for bosh. You have a scoring point guard / a scoring athletic forward / and then Bosh has the paint all to himself.

    Why do you think Calderon would not work for the Spurs?

  9. #84
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    Because he is much worse than TP at everything except for 3 point shooting/FT shooting. Spurs need a pg that can score.

  10. #85
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    Also, look at the value for their contracts and skill level. How much better in general do you think Davis is than Calderon?
    Davis can break down defenses alot easier than calderon because of his street ball moves. he can also post up, and is a decent shooter. Calderon is more of an avery johnson type player, which is what the spurs need right now.

  11. #86
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    That did not answer my question. How much better is Davis, is he worth the 4M per year extra. By the way, Calderon shoots much, much better than Davis.

    Who is better in general, BD or TP?

  12. #87
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    Because he is much worse than TP at everything except for 3 point shooting/FT shooting. Spurs need a pg that can score.
    I see what your saying, however I also think that spurs fans have gotten use to Parker putting up big numbers for the last 8 yrs. The Dallas series proves my point. The spurs dont need a point guard who puts up numbers every game. They need a point guard who will make the game easier for everybody and will assert themselves offensively when necessary. Calderon can put 20pts if he gets the same amount of attempts as parker, because of what you mentioned above. Tell me thats not true!!

  13. #88
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    That did not answer my question. How much better is Davis, is he worth the 4M per year extra. By the way, Calderon shoots much, much better than Davis.

    Who is better in general, BD or TP?
    better point guard Calderon easily. Looking at the Raptors situation calderon cant really provide the kind of help they need ( He is not exciting at all ). Calderon runs that offense to perfection ( thats all ). Baron Davis will put more fans in the seats, Spurs fans are loyal, we have enjoyed much success. However Raptor fans are kinda in limbo right now. Baron davis would be worth the money, because if they have another bad year, It would kinda be like the year we had Dominique Wilkins. We sucked but it was a fun year cause we got to watch him. Does that answer that question?

  14. #89
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    It is definitely not true, because he does not get the easy looks like Parker and he is not as gifted athletically.

    TP did set the Spurs up. Spurs got plenty of great looks, they just choked. Spurs would not have won a single game in the playoffs with Calderon. Plus, Calderon is a terrible defender. TP is above average for his position.

  15. #90
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    better point guard Calderon easily. Looking at the Raptors situation calderon cant really provide the kind of help they need. Calderon works runs that offense to perfection. Baron Davis will put more fans in the seats, Spurs fans are loyal, we have enjoyed much success. However Raptor fans are kinda in limbo right now. Baron davis would be worth the money. It would kinda be like the year we had Dominique Wilkins. We sucked but it was a fun year cause we got to watch him. Does that answer that question?
    I would agree that BD when healthy is better than Calderon, but BD cannot stay healthy. That is a serious concern for the amount of money.

    What I am saying is that Parker is clearly better than BD, so obviously the Clippers would love to get rid of that terrible contract.

    Also, BD, with his health issues and contract is not good enough of an upgrade to take on that salary and give up Bargnani as well.

    Calderon + Bargnani is not good enough to give up Parker and throwing Pops in does not make it any better. So basically, the only team it makes sense for is the Clippers imo.

  16. #91
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    It is definitely not true, because he does not get the easy looks like Parker and he is not as gifted athletically.

    TP did set the Spurs up. Spurs got plenty of great looks, they just choked. Spurs would not have won a single game in the playoffs with Calderon. Plus, Calderon is a terrible defender. TP is above average for his position.
    True, but if you do what the Raptors did with Calderon / Ford that would work Brilliantly. 28 mins - calderon / 20 min. hill off the bench. With calderon you get good offensive production, with Hill you get athleticism / better defense.

    Calderon doesn't have to get easy looks, with him running the offense you will have a balanced attack. Duncan 20 / Manu 17 / Bargnani 15 / Finley 10 / Mason jr. 10. the Reason you would get that kind of production is because Calderon would run different plays , and look for/ put guys in positions to score easier. If parker learned that, he would be unstoppable in all respects.

  17. #92
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    Do you have a better Idea? not being sarcastic, just curious. you seem to have an idea as to what the spurs really need. I'd love to hear it!!!!!

  18. #93
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    True, but if you do what the Raptors did with Calderon / Ford that would work Brilliantly. 28 mins - calderon / 20 min. hill off the bench. With calderon you get good offensive production, with Hill you get athleticism / better defense.

    Calderon doesn't have to get easy looks, with him running the offense you will have a balanced attack. Duncan 20 / Manu 17 / Bargnani 15 / Finley 10 / Mason jr. 10. the Reason you would get that kind of production is because Calderon would run different plays , and look for/ put guys in positions to score easier. If parker learned that, he would be unstoppable in all respects.
    He does do that. Spurs get plenty of great looks which is why they are top 3 in 3PT.

    Spurs need offense from the point guard and the system the Spurs run requires the pg to score so Calderon would not succeed. Duncan/Manu/Fin/Mason all score that now, so having Calderon would not improve that. You would be losing scoring when you have Calderon/Hill vs TP/Hill and not improving other guys scoring.

  19. #94
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    you left out Bargnani. that Makes a huge difference. I wouldn't trade Parker for Calderon straight up. Bargnani can bring back the twin towers look. Dont forget thats what made us successful. Bargnani averaged 1.2 blks a game. looking at how little guys got to the paint ( barea ) we need another big guy who can block shots and keep the defense honest by hitting 3pt shots like Bonner was supposed to do. just real quick b4 i go i wanna know; do you think the spurs would be better with chris paul instead of tony parker?

  20. #95
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    Pf - duncan 20pts 10rb 2blks / pops MB ( 6pt 5 rb 1blk)
    sf - Bowen ( defense ) / Finley 8pts
    C - bargnani 15pts 6 rb 1 blk / Kurt thomas 5pt / 5rb
    pg - Calderon 11pt 8ast ( no turnovers ) / hill 7pts ( defense )
    sg - mason jr 10 pts / ginobili 15 pts and the usual other stuff you get from him.

  21. #96
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    Look, you will find I am one of the biggest Bargnani supporters (), but I would like him on the Spurs only in context of what the Spurs have been doing in recent years (Horry, Bonner...). He would be an upgrade over them, but he is in no way my ideal big man next to Tim.

    I did not really forget Bargs in my last scenario. I was trying to make the point that Bargs+Calderon - TP+Bonner (because he would be out of the rotation) = a net loss in points more than likely.

    If that is the case, I will take the proven leader, scorer and finals MVP + the defense (TP+Bonner are better defensively than Calderon+Bargs). I would like Bargnani on the Spurs for sure, I really think he has a bright future and he is cheap and can improve (he must improve on defense and rebounding, his offense is fine.).

    I have an idea of what the Spurs need and there are multiple players that can fulfill the needs. I know for sure that the Spurs trading TP or TD and to a lesser degree Manu does not improve the team. You have to bring pieces in that add to those 3 unless you are going to get an absolute superstar in return. Calderon+Bargs are talented players in their own regards, but not enough for TP.

    The key is to try and analyze the situation (talent, salary cap, future...) and it is incredibly complex.

  22. #97
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    Look, you will find I am one of the biggest Bargnani supporters (), but I would like him on the Spurs only in context of what the Spurs have been doing in recent years (Horry, Bonner...). He would be an upgrade over them, but he is in no way my ideal big man next to Tim.

    I did not really forget Bargs in my last scenario. I was trying to make the point that Bargs+Calderon - TP+Bonner (because he would be out of the rotation) = a net loss in points more than likely.

    If that is the case, I will take the proven leader, scorer and finals MVP + the defense (TP+Bonner are better defensively than Calderon+Bargs). I would like Bargnani on the Spurs for sure, I really think he has a bright future and he is cheap and can improve (he must improve on defense and rebounding, his offense is fine.).

    I have an idea of what the Spurs need and there are multiple players that can fulfill the needs. I know for sure that the Spurs trading TP or TD and to a lesser degree Manu does not improve the team. You have to bring pieces in that add to those 3 unless you are going to get an absolute superstar in return. Calderon+Bargs are talented players in their own regards, but not enough for TP.

    The key is to try and analyze the situation (talent, salary cap, future...) and it is incredibly complex.
    I still feel it would work, however what your saying makes perfect sense. the only thing is that to get talent you have to give up talent, unless you sign a player who was good 10 yrs ago. The spurs have been doing that and I think the last 2 seasons it caught up with them. I'm looking for players who are young and can be developed. I just dont feel Parker will stick around. Kinda like trade one of your better assets before you lose him completely. Parker has 2 more years on his contract, duncan 3. I highley doubt that parker will sign a big deal with the spurs when his contract is up. Hey thanks abunch for your thoughts, i gota run.

  23. #98
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    Why are the Spurs trading their best scorer, again?

  24. #99
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    Why are the Spurs trading their best scorer, again?
    that would be stupid
    if you are afraid tp will not resign you would trade him later on his contract year not now anyhow

  25. #100
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    I still feel it would work, however what your saying makes perfect sense. the only thing is that to get talent you have to give up talent, unless you sign a player who was good 10 yrs ago. The spurs have been doing that and I think the last 2 seasons it caught up with them. I'm looking for players who are young and can be developed. I just dont feel Parker will stick around. Kinda like trade one of your better assets before you lose him completely. Parker has 2 more years on his contract, duncan 3. I highley doubt that parker will sign a big deal with the spurs when his contract is up. Hey thanks abunch for your thoughts, i gota run.
    Disagree. TP and Eva are building a new home in S.A. and have no plans to leave. He is in for the duration.

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...rity_Sell.html
    Last edited by Knoxxx; 05-15-2009 at 09:42 PM.

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