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  1. #1001
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    I agree, I wouldnt toss in Butler as I like his upside, but blair and a future second rounder.
    Spurs would have to match salaries by either throwing in Green or Butler.

  2. #1002
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I am not high on Jason Thompson. While I think he is ok and the trade is a good one, I personally haven't seen anything from him to make me believe he is going to be anything consistent. To me, a good 2 months does not outweigh all the other below mediocre performances. He has done far more "blah" than he has "wow".

    Almost every player has a streak where they look damn good, which is why they are in the NBA. It's about getting something consistent and nothing I have seen with my eyes in real time or by digging into advanced stats shows me he is something to be overly excited about.

  3. #1003
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    I am not high on Jason Thompson. While I think he is ok and the trade is a good one, I personally haven't seen anything from him to make me believe he is going to be anything consistent. To me, a good 2 months does not outweigh all the other below mediocre performances. He has done far more "blah" than he has "wow".

    Almost every player has a streak where they look damn good, which is why they are in the NBA. It's about getting something consistent and nothing I have seen with my eyes in real time or by digging into advanced stats shows me he is something to be overly excited about.
    Like I said, he's not a superstar talent or anything like that, but you have to look at the off-season situation realistically. There is not much the Spurs can do in order to upgrade their front-court.

    That being said, I would much rather have Jason Thompson over an Aaron Gray.

    Who else is out that could be somewhat attainable?

    Tyrus Thomas? Brandon Bass? What is out there? Not much if we are talking about attaining quality talent.

  4. #1004
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    the foul troubles are in fact the major issue about Johnson's game. but I don't see his weight as a major issue. btw. I don't think the 210 are still accurate, some players are still listed with the weight they had when they entered the league, even if they obviously have gained some weight. I think he is something like 220-225 right now. but yes, he will always struggle against bigger players in the post, but that's the price for having a PF quick enough to defend the perimeter. much like Tyrus Thomas in this regard and TT did have quite some fans on this board, when there were reports the Spurs are interested in trading for him.
    Major issue might be overstating it, but it's an issue nonetheless. It's irrelevant on a team like the Raptors. On the Spurs, who are still trying to contend, he'd be their primary defender on guys like Gasol and Randolph. You're right about listed weights often being outdated. But in Johnson's case, if it is, it barely is.

    I like Johnson's game though and considering the Spurs limited options, I'd trade Blair and McDyess for him. But I'd first offer the Raptors Jefferson and Blair for Johnson and Kleiza.

    The Raptors might actually do this. Say what you want about Jefferson, but they'd be shipping out two overpaid players themselves, while getting an upgrade at SF and improving their league worst three-point shooting. They'd also get an inexpensive glass eater to replace Evans.

    For the Spurs, Johnson's final year, at $7 million, is not guaranteed. So basically, they'd get him for 3 years and $18 million, which is reasonable. If there is a one time amnesty in the new CBA, Kleiza would be much more affordable for Holt to buy out than Jefferson. He has 4 years and $18.8 million left on his contract. But even if Holt wouldn't do so, it's still worth it. They'd essentially split Jefferson's money between a starting PF, and a backup SF, while paving the way for Leonard/Anderson to play more.

  5. #1005
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Like I said, he's not a superstar talent or anything like that, but you have to look at the off-season situation realistically. There is not much the Spurs can do in order to upgrade their front-court.

    That being said, I would much rather have Jason Thompson over an Aaron Gray.

    Who else is out that could be somewhat attainable?

    Tyrus Thomas? Brandon Bass? What is out there? Not much if we are talking about attaining quality talent.
    Like I said, the trade itself is fine, I was just commenting on what I would expect from it. It's a low risk gamble, but it's not a high reward one IMO. It's not something that I would just jump at, but I wouldn't be upset at it.

    The Spurs have drafted quality nba players and to flip both of their best young assets when they are close to rebuilding for what could be mediocre young players isn't a great deal IMO. If you were to tell me that the Spurs were going to move Hill+Blair before the season, I would expect at least that RJ is gone with them and you get a pretty damn decent player back. Hill+Blair for Leonard+Thompson makes very little sense overall to me. It's a lateral move that doesn't do much to help the team legitimately compete and you lose two young players that would help you rebuild that actually have some proven NBA experience and have been productive.

  6. #1006
    Veteran Russo21's Avatar
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    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=67w3997

    Darko & Splitter
    Duncan & Dice
    Ariza & Leonard
    Manu & Webster
    Parker & Neal

    Strong, long, 10 deep, get rid of dead weights in Blair, RJ and Bonner. Add length strength and defense in Darko, an offensive wing player in webster and a defensive wing player in Ariza

  7. #1007
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    Darko Milicic has always been a guy i liked since he became a rotation player. He would be a huge upgrade for the Spurs and give them a true C. Top 5 shot blocker and probably a top 5 overall defensive C. Great size at 7'1' and good mobility.

  8. #1008
    Veteran Russo21's Avatar
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    Same, i always felt sorry for him watching him glued to the bench in Detroit. I'm happy for him now he's a legit big man in the NBA, we could sure use his help:-)

  9. #1009
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    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=67w3997

    Darko & Splitter
    Duncan & Dice
    Ariza & Leonard
    Manu & Webster
    Parker & Neal

    Strong, long, 10 deep, get rid of dead weights in Blair, RJ and Bonner. Add length strength and defense in Darko, an offensive wing player in webster and a defensive wing player in Ariza
    you change Jhonson (Minnesota is not giving up on him so easily) with Beasley and the trade couild make a lot of sense for all the three teams involved

  10. #1010
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    re-visiting the trade, it works also so on nba trade machine :

    SA takes : Ariza + Okafor
    Minn takes : Jefferson + Blair + Bonner + Dice contract
    N.O. takes : Milicic + Webster + Beasley


    for different reasons, this could be a very good trade for all the teams included

  11. #1011
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    Minny doesn't need a Blair -- they have a rebound monster already. And Beasley is doing just fine as their SF, so why RJ?

  12. #1012
    I Make Love To Pressure MR.SILVER&BLack's Avatar
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    Minny doesn't need a Blair -- they have a rebound monster already. And Beasley is doing just fine as their SF, so why RJ?
    well they keep saying they want vets and signing a vet thru FA would be dumb seeing how pretty much everyone on there team is tradable & remember Kahn is still the GM.

  13. #1013
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    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=43jttky

    Spurs: Sessions,Kaman
    Cavs:Mcdyess,Blair,Gomes
    Clippers:Jefferson,Bonner,Varejao

    Spurs get a big man who can score, not a great defender, but an upgrade over Blair, and Bonner defensively. Sessions would be the scoring back up point guard we need until Joseph develops in Austin.

    Clippers get the veteran Small Forward they've been looking for, and get some help on there thin frontcourt.

    Cavs get a small forward they need (Gomes), and a young power forward to back up to replace Hickson, and Mcdyess non guarnteed contract, and plus shed salary cap for the future.

    Spurs go after Prince this offseason, and backup big man(Pryzbilla or Lorbek), and Dice gets boughout,and comes back during the season.

    Kaman/Pyzbilla/Lorbek?
    Duncan/Splitter/Mcdyess
    Prince/Butler/Leonard'
    Anderson/Manu/Neal
    Parker/Sessions/Joseph

  14. #1014
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    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=43jttky

    Spurs: Sessions,Kaman
    Cavs:Mcdyess,Blair,Gomes
    Clippers:Jefferson,Bonner,Varejao

    Spurs get a big man who can score, not a great defender, but an upgrade over Blair, and Bonner defensively. Sessions would be the scoring back up point guard we need until Joseph develops in Austin.

    Clippers get the veteran Small Forward they've been looking for, and get some help on there thin frontcourt.

    Cavs get a small forward they need (Gomes), and a young power forward to back up to replace Hickson, and Mcdyess non guarnteed contract, and plus shed salary cap for the future.

    Spurs go after Prince this offseason, and backup big man(Pryzbilla or Lorbek), and Dice gets boughout,and comes back during the season.

    Kaman/Pyzbilla/Lorbek?
    Duncan/Splitter/Mcdyess
    Prince/Butler/Leonard'
    Anderson/Manu/Neal
    Parker/Sessions/Joseph
    Love the ideas - too bad it requires two other teams to be absolutely stupid to do it....

  15. #1015
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    The problem is that we need a starting PF and the only expendable and valuable piece that we have is Blair, a PF. We would need to find a 3rd team.

    With the pieces that we have, we won't be able to bring a starting PF, not a good one at least.

    We should target teams with a logjam in the PF position. From what I know, the Bobcats, the Bucks and the Rockets have a logjam in the PF position

    Bobcats : Thomas, Diaw, Najera, DJ White and Dante Cunningham
    Rockets: Scola, Patterson, Monteijunas, Hill and Morris
    Bucks: Drew Gooden, Larry Sanders Ersan Ilyasova, Jon Brockman, LRMM, Tobias Harris

    Of course, the ones i like the most are the most expensive pieces. The cheap ones that could help us in my opinion are Diaw and Ilyasova.
    LRMM is by far the best defender, but he can play both forward positions and don't think the Bucks will let him go. Plus, he can't shoot.

  16. #1016
    I Make Love To Pressure MR.SILVER&BLack's Avatar
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    The problem is that we need a starting PF and the only expendable and valuable piece that we have is Blair, a PF. We would need to find a 3rd team.

    With the pieces that we have, we won't be able to bring a starting PF, not a good one at least.

    We should target teams with a logjam in the PF position. From what I know, the Bobcats, the Bucks and the Rockets have a logjam in the PF position

    Bobcats : Thomas, Diaw, Najera, DJ White and Dante Cunningham
    Rockets: Scola, Patterson, Monteijunas, Hill and Morris
    Bucks: Drew Gooden, Larry Sanders Ersan Ilyasova, Jon Brockman, LRMM, Tobias Harris

    Of course, the ones i like the most are the most expensive pieces. The cheap ones that could help us in my opinion are Diaw and Ilyasova.
    LRMM is by far the best defender, but he can play both forward positions and don't think the Bucks will let him go. Plus, he can't shoot.
    i know he has a ton of character problems but the best talent we could prob get is M. Beasley. i think in an organization like the spurs he could straighten out some or maybe attempt to get A. Randolph because minnies at a logjam at the 4 and 5 as well.

  17. #1017
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    The problem is that we need a starting PF and the only expendable and valuable piece that we have is Blair, a PF. We would need to find a 3rd team.

    With the pieces that we have, we won't be able to bring a starting PF, not a good one at least.

    We should target teams with a logjam in the PF position. From what I know, the Bobcats, the Bucks and the Rockets have a logjam in the PF position

    Bobcats : Thomas, Diaw, Najera, DJ White and Dante Cunningham
    Rockets: Scola, Patterson, Monteijunas, Hill and Morris
    Bucks: Drew Gooden, Larry Sanders Ersan Ilyasova, Jon Brockman, LRMM, Tobias Harris

    Of course, the ones i like the most are the most expensive pieces. The cheap ones that could help us in my opinion are Diaw and Ilyasova.
    LRMM is by far the best defender, but he can play both forward positions and don't think the Bucks will let him go. Plus, he can't shoot.
    This is indeed our problem. With the addition of a good starting PF we're in pretty good shape. With the development of Tiago, Anderson, and Leonard we've got a better team than last year, if we can find a 4.....

  18. #1018
    Believe. Tyrone Jenkins's Avatar
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    They drafted our 4 in the first round at pick 15 this year!
    Leonard is NO 4. Matter of fact, he's the ANTI-4. He's a SF if there ever was one.

  19. #1019
    Veteran Russo21's Avatar
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    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3opu3x4
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3rqjxjr

    Kwame Brown
    Tim Duncan
    Luol Deng
    Manu Ginobili
    Tony Parker

    Something like that:-)

    Kwame is massive at 6'11" 270lbs and would be good to clog the lane. One of the biggest no.1 pick busts in history. But he's massive and strong and good for 8pts 7 reb. I remember one game Duncan played against him back when he was with washington and Tim had a hard time going against him (he did still get 30pts lol but prime timmy was unstoppable)

    Luol Deng is a massive upgrade over Jefferson. Maybe Chicago might want a change after a poor playoff run (wishful thinking i know)

    Would be 2 good additions to add size, lenth, strength, defense and versatility to go alongside Tim, Manu and Tony

  20. #1020
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    They drafted our 4 in the first round at pick 15 this year!
    Sounds like an indictment of Pop's small ball ambitions.

  21. #1021
    Believe. Tyrone Jenkins's Avatar
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    While I agree he is not a PF you may need to talk to Pop about that. Matt Bonner is no NBA player and def not a Center, yet pops plays him there. Blair is no Center yet again he plays there. Anderson is no SF yet he plays there...ect.

    A SF if there ever was one.....A man who cant handle the ball, has avg foot speed, below avg leaper, no real jump shot and avg 15ppg against mostly poor comp.

    This is your idea of an ideal SF?

    While I like him and see great upside, if spurs are not able to sign a true big in the off season and Dice hangs them up, he will see alot of time at the 4.
    I beg to differ - Blair IS a center. He's just undersized. When both Yao Ming and Brad Miller were injured for the Rockets, Chuch Hayes played center and did a fairly decent job given he's only 6'6". Magic Johnson was 6'9" and was a PG. Style of play determines positions - not size.

    You are correct about Anderson not being a SF and Bonner not being a C. But, Bonner IS an NBA player - he's just a ROLE player. Expectations of Bonner by the fans (and Pop) are just unrealistic. He has his place in the NBA it's just not as prominent as the Spurs and Pop expect of him.

    And you need to go back and look at Leonard's game tape (try youtube). The guy averaged 15 / 10 for a team that lost only 3 games but played Gonzaga, St Mary's, Utah twice, BYU 3 times, Temple and UConn. He was high scorer for his team 16 times and high rebounder 25 times - all this as a sop re. He was considered the BEST pure SF prospect in the draft as well as one of the best defenders. He was 2nd team All-America by Assoc Press, FoxSports and Sporting News. But most importantly, his style of play is purely SF like - defensive, rebounding, hustling and jack of all trades but master or none type. If you can't see that, you don't know basketball.

    With his versatility, he can play the 4 but he probably won't be great at it. He could probably even play the 2 some, but his outside shooting isn't good enough for that.

    The dude is a 3.

  22. #1022
    Believe. Tyrone Jenkins's Avatar
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    With his reach he was drafted long term to take over the 3 but short term to help at the 4 when teams go small as RJ cannot defend pf, and has a hard time defending sf's.
    Completely agree w/ that. I'm hoping the Spurs won't play small ball all that often but we'll ahave to see what their other options are.

    Your mentioning of a SF scoring mostly off of putbacks, etc...he didn't average 15 a game off of just putbacks. He doesn't have a GREAT midrange game but it's not completely non-existent. Even if it was, a SF's job in the Spurs system isn't to score a whole bunch of points. I would be happy if he scored 12 a game next year and only two of those points were from midrange. His job is more important to the team in other areas much like Ron Artest, Tashaun Prince, etc.

    The Spurs value the SF position so much, they drafted 3 of them this past draft....

  23. #1023
    Don't believe the hype... ChuckD's Avatar
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    Completely agree w/ that. I'm hoping the Spurs won't play small ball all that often but we'll ahave to see what their other options are.

    Your mentioning of a SF scoring mostly off of putbacks, etc...he didn't average 15 a game off of just putbacks. He doesn't have a GREAT midrange game but it's not completely non-existent. Even if it was, a SF's job in the Spurs system isn't to score a whole bunch of points. I would be happy if he scored 12 a game next year and only two of those points were from midrange. His job is more important to the team in other areas much like Ron Artest, Tashaun Prince, etc.

    The Spurs value the SF position so much, they drafted 3 of them this past draft....
    What? They drafted one SF, one PG, and one SG.

  24. #1024
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    What? They drafted one SF, one PG, and one SG.
    he's right, if you count Hanga as SG/SF. (which is accurate, considering he is 6'7'')
    Leonard and Bertans are SFs.
    that's 3.

  25. #1025
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    totally unnecessary trade proposal #82623753:

    thinking about the Raptors and their needs. thought about two scenarios:
    #1: RJ + Blair for Johnson + Kleiza.

    why the Raptors do it:
    no matter if Valanciunas comes over this year or next summer, the core of their front court of the future will be Valanciunas-Bargnani-Davis and this looks pretty damn good. Johnson did well, but you don't want a player on a long term contract at 6 million when this player is just the #4 of your big rotation and a younger and less costly player (Davis) provides most of the qualities this player brings in.
    Blair gets them the same production on the boards like Evans, but is a much better offensive player. (and younger) so they will like him. Valanciunas-Bargnani-Davis-Blair looks even better long term, considering none is older than 25.
    Kleiza was a disappointment this season, they might think about getting rid of him. They need 3pt shooting desperately, RJ might be somehow intriguing. they won't like his big contract, but they get rid of more guaranteed money overall, so it's not a bad decision financially.

    Spurs do it:
    they bring in two not so good contracts for one bad contract. let's call it a wash. Johnson brings in qualities the Spurs desperately need. (defense, athleticism and mobility for the front court). they offered him a nice contract some years ago, so they liked him then. and he did improve significantly.
    Kleiza+Leonard looks nice (at least on paper) for the SF spot. Kleiza is more versatile than RJ and probably also a better fit for a slower pace.

    scenario #2:
    RJ + Bonner + Blair + Joseph
    for
    Johnson + Kleiza + Bayless

    Raptors might have some interest in a very young PG, who is from Toronto. Bonner is kind of a local guy either and a fan fav. he brings some more 3pt shooting, even considering his role would be very limited alongside Bargnani.

    Bayless would give the Spurs a decent back up PG, he was a disappointment considering he was a lottery pick, but he isn't that bad. decent defender, would compensate for the loss of defense that Hill provided. has still nice upside at 22.

    that trade would give us a depth chart:

    Tony-Bayless-Manu
    Manu-Neal-Anderson-Bayless
    Kleiza-Leonard-Anderson-Butler
    Johnson-Kleiza-(Dice?)-(Richards?)
    Tim-Splitter-(Richards?)

    fk. what a waste of time. fk the lock out!

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