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  1. #101
    Feels bad man Mr.Bottomtooth's Avatar
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    Miller for Bowen+Oberto (with Wolves waiving Bowen).
    Re-sign Bowen.
    Sign Pachulia (whom I think is the most reasonable choice for a big), McDyess, or Gortat, Nichols, and Gist.

    C Pachulia/McDyess/Gortat|Thomas
    PF Duncan|Mahinmi|Bonner
    SF Miller|Bowen|Gist
    SG Mason|Manu|Nichols
    PG Parker|Hill

  2. #102
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    Miller for Bowen+Oberto (with Wolves waiving Bowen).
    Re-sign Bowen.
    Sign Pachulia (whom I think is the most reasonable choice for a big), McDyess, or Gortat, Nichols, and Gist.

    C Pachulia/McDyess/Gortat|Thomas
    PF Duncan|Mahinmi|Bonner
    SF Miller|Bowen|Gist
    SG Mason|Manu|Nichols
    PG Parker|Hill
    you're well over the lux tax

  3. #103
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    you're well over the lux tax
    That is what I was saying to MB. I would love for the Spurs to trade Bruce/Oberto and get a player of need along with using the MLE. Problem is that it would put the Spurs about 5M over the luxury tax and I do not think they will do that.
    Last edited by DPG21920; 05-17-2009 at 09:33 PM.

  4. #104
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    That is what I was saying to MB. I would love for the Spurs to trade Bruce/Oberto and get a player of need along with using the MLE. Problem is that it would put the Spurs about 5M over the luxury tax and I do not think they will do that.
    Yep, the math is unavoidable. If the Oberto/Bowen deals are traded then the MLE cannot be used without going way over the tax.

  5. #105
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    The Spurs can trade Bowen/Oberto and then subsequently use the MLE, while still being below the luxury tax threshold. What the Spurs cannot do is trade Oberto/Bowen for someone who makes more than their combined salaries (within the limit, 120% I think). For example, Mike Miller makes $9M next year, and as such a deal of Bowen/Oberto ($5M or so) doesn't match up.
    The Spurs would have to trade Bowen/Oberto for someone who makes no more than roughly $6M. There aren't many players at that salary who would be worth trading for. Nocioni is someone who is close to that range (at $7.5M) but that's a longshot. More players from both sides would have to be included.

    The Spurs in most likelyhood will split the MLE between a couple of players (Gortat/Herman?), and will cut Bowen/Oberto before resigning Bruce for the minimum. Oberto seems to be done.

  6. #106
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    The Spurs can trade Bowen/Oberto and then subsequently use the MLE, while still being below the luxury tax threshold. What the Spurs cannot do is trade Oberto/Bowen for someone who makes more than their combined salaries (within the limit, 120% I think). For example, Mike Miller makes $9M next year, and as such a deal of Bowen/Oberto ($5M or so) doesn't match up.
    The Spurs would have to trade Bowen/Oberto for someone who makes no more than roughly $6M. There aren't many players at that salary who would be worth trading for. Nocioni is someone who is close to that range (at $7.5M) but that's a longshot. More players from both sides would have to be included.

    The Spurs in most likelyhood will split the MLE between a couple of players (Gortat/Herman?), and will cut Bowen/Oberto before resigning Bruce for the minimum. Oberto seems to be done.
    your math is wrong. Bowen and Oberto combine on paper for 7.8 million

  7. #107
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    "your math is wrong. Bowen and Oberto combine on paper for 7.8 million"


    If that's the case then we could theoretically trade the two of them plus a filler for Mike Miller, but we'd have to do so in time for Minnesota to be able to waive them (while their contracts are still non-guaranteed) so that the Wolves can obtain some cap relief, otherwise there is no point to the deal from their standpoint. This pertains to any player we trade for that only has 1 year left on his deal. I suppose the Spurs will pull off a deal by draft day if they can indeed make a trade for someone like Mike Miller who has 1 year left on his contract.

  8. #108
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    If that's the case then we could theoretically trade the two of them plus a filler for Mike Miller
    still not enough to spend the MLE. not close really. current roster - bowen/oberto + mike miller = ~72 mil. already over the tax line, and we still havent filled out the roster.

  9. #109
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    "your math is wrong. Bowen and Oberto combine on paper for 7.8 million"


    If that's the case then we could theoretically trade the two of them plus a filler for Mike Miller . . .
    incorrect.

    Use either the RealGM or ESPN trade checking pages listed on page 1 of this topic.

    No filler needed.

    and fwiw espn's salary numbers for Oberto are 200k less than the numbers off of shamsports' nba salaries pages that I used, doesn't change the particular trade proposal though.

  10. #110
    Kidd-Gilchrist Damn Chieflion's Avatar
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    I just seen something on RealGM which I kind of like but not sure whether more incentives could be involved for the Spurs.

    Tony Parker + Fabricio Oberto for

    Randy Foye + Kevin Love + Mike Miller + Late 1st round pick + 2010 2nd rounder


    Minnesota gets a star PG to pair with Al Jefferson for a chance to get into the playoffs.

    San Antonio gets youth, a decent scorer and a young good big and a late 1st which they can convert to an early second or find a prospect they really like.


    Just some fantasy basketball running through my head, but in the NBA, anything goes.
    Last edited by Chieflion; 05-18-2009 at 06:25 AM.

  11. #111
    Believe. StoneBuddha's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, no trade that involves Tony Parker (without bringing back someone named Wade, Lebron or Kobe) improves the Spurs le hopes for the next 2-3 years.

    Spurs most likely have to keep the big 3 and hope they can improve the team in other ways. They'll have to be pretty creative but it's doable if they are willing to spend the money... now, that's another story.

  12. #112
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    Nocioni might actually be the most realistic trade target, if SacTown is looking to shed some payroll. Noc's annual pay actually decreases after next season, from $7.5M to $6.8M to $6.6M. We know the Spurs have been interested in him in the past, and his salary is reasonable. This might be more realistic than signing someone like Marion/Ariza/Williams.

  13. #113
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    as much as I'm a fan of Nocioni and would love to see him with the Spurs, "most realistic" also needs the Spurs FO to believe he is what the team needs. considering their last tries for big moves (as far as we know this have been Camby, Salmons and Miller, maybe also VC and Jefferson), Nocioni doesn't exactly fit the picture. so I don't think he is the #1 target this summer.

  14. #114
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Hammer away, but the way I see it the Clippers will not be able to get rid of Randolf who plays the same position as Griffin. Soooooooo, trade Parker for Davis and Griffin and whatever else to make the salaries match..............

    Clips get what they need and the Spurs reload while still providing high caliber play for now.

  15. #115
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    Hammer away, but the way I see it the Clippers will not be able to get rid of Randolf who plays the same position as Griffin. Soooooooo, trade Parker for Davis and Griffin and whatever else to make the salaries match..............

    Clips get what they need and the Spurs reload while still providing high caliber play for now.
    Baron davis is not a true point guard, He is like parker - shoot first and pass second. If we are going to trade parker we must get a solid point guard out of it along with talent that is good now and can be good now and can get better in the future.
    Their are 4 YOUNG LEGIT point guards in the league. 1 - cp3 2 - D. Williams 3 - Rajon Rondo 4 - Jose Calderon. Each of those guys makes the game easier for their teammates. Parker and Davis only lighten the load for their teammates. Their is a huge difference. Chris Paul makes tyson chandler / david west better than they really are and maximizes their abilities. Deron williams ( Boozer / Korver ) Rajon Rondo ( Allen / Perkins )Calderon ( Parker / Bargnani / Kapono ). All of the guys mentioned are not as good as the point guards make them. Duncan can play 35-40 minutes and get 20-30 pts if he gets lay-ups and easy buckets. however parker doesn't make the game easier for him; rather he scores 25-30 pts of his own. thats great, but that only lightens duncans scoring load, not make the game easier. If we get a good young point guard and Center for parker its worth a deal. anything else puts the spurs in a bad position now and certainly in the future.

  16. #116
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    Baron davis is not a true point guard, He is like parker - shoot first and pass second. If we are going to trade parker we must get a solid point guard out of it along with talent that is good now and can be good now and can get better in the future.
    Their are 4 YOUNG LEGIT point guards in the league. 1 - cp3 2 - D. Williams 3 - Rajon Rondo 4 - Jose Calderon. Each of those guys makes the game easier for their teammates. Parker and Davis only lighten the load for their teammates. Their is a huge difference. Chris Paul makes tyson chandler / david west better than they really are and maximizes their abilities. Deron williams ( Boozer / Korver ) Rajon Rondo ( Allen / Perkins )Calderon ( Parker / Bargnani / Kapono ). All of the guys mentioned are not as good as the point guards make them. Duncan can play 35-40 minutes and get 20-30 pts if he gets lay-ups and easy buckets. however parker doesn't make the game easier for him; rather he scores 25-30 pts of his own. thats great, but that only lightens duncans scoring load, not make the game easier. If we get a good young point guard and Center for parker its worth a deal. anything else puts the spurs in a bad position now and certainly in the future.

    This is not an accurate assessment. Tony Parker plays pick and roll with either TD, Thomas, and Bonner. None of these guys are athletic like Boozer, Chandler or West. Tim is more of an isolation/post up player, Bonner is a spot up 3 point shooter, and the rest of the Spurs big men are not going to hurt you in a pick and roll game. Tony generates most of the Spurs offense because Tim doesn't generate as many double teams as he once did. We lead the league in 3 point % for a good part of the season, mainly due to TP's dribble penetration, not because Tim was kicking it out to open shooters. If Tony played with big guys who were more skilled/athletic (ala New Orleans) as well as perimeter guys who could move without the ball (ala Utah) the Spurs pick and roll game would look much better and Parker would get more assists. Paul and Williams would not make the Spurs any better than they are right now. The Spurs simply need more skilled players rather than one dimensional standstill shooters.

  17. #117
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    great argument, can't really on that one disagree to much.

  18. #118
    Championships don't lie spursbird's Avatar
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    Manu for Barbosa and Robin Lopez
    or Manu for Jerryd Bayless and Outlaw.
    I know neither would happen, but the Blazers need a experienced veteran guard to help them in the playoffs.
    I don't hate Manu, but his injury was a big problem.

  19. #119
    Believe. StoneBuddha's Avatar
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    Manu for Barbosa and Robin Lopez
    or Manu for Jerryd Bayless and Outlaw.
    I know neither would happen, but the Blazers need a experienced veteran guard to help them in the playoffs.
    I don't hate Manu, but his injury was a big problem.
    You do realize how *horrendous* Robin Lopez was this season. He was getting called out by Shaq all season and eventually got benched for Louis Fabio.

  20. #120
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    Hey someone should update the roster and list

    whose draft rights we hold?

    whose expiring contract?

  21. #121
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    Hey someone should update the roster and list

    whose draft rights we hold?

    whose expiring contract?

    Contracts:

    Tim Duncan, forward
    Age: 33
    Contract status: Three years, $62.1 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $22,183,218
    Future: Will remain an All-Star for as long as his knees will allow.

    Tony Parker, guard
    Age: 26
    Contract status: Two years, $26.1 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $12,600,000
    Future: Coming off the best season of his career. Indicator arrow pointing up, so long as he survives the summer injury free.

    Manu Ginobili, guard
    Age: 31
    Contract status: One year, $10.7 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $10,725,000
    Future: Injured almost from start to finish this season. Will have to prove his health before Spurs commit to extension.

    Bruce Bowen, guard/forward
    Age: 37
    Contract status: One year, $4 million remaining (partially guaranteed).
    09/10 Salary: $4,000,000
    Future: In rotation, then out, then back in again, Bowen enjoyed revitalization during playoffs. Expiring contract makes for nice trading chip, either this summer or next season.

    Matt Bonner, center/forward
    Age: 29
    Contract status: One year, $3.2 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $3,200,000
    Future: Set to return next season, but manageable contract could find him on trade market.

    Michael Finley, forward/guard
    Age: 36
    Contract status: One year, $2.5 million remaining (player option)
    09/10 Salary: $2,500,000
    Future: Has the option to return next season, but remains non-committal. Hard to see him passing up free money.

    Roger Mason Jr., guard
    Age: 28
    Contract status: One year, $3.8 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $3,800,000
    Future: Cooled after strong first half, but still very much in Spursí plans. Will become more valuable as he becomes more comfortable at the point.

    Drew Gooden, forward/center
    Age: 27
    Contract status: Free agent
    09/10 Salary: N/A
    Future: Spurs were pleased with his progress after late-season arrival, but DNP-CD in last game of the playoffs is troubling. Could be back, depending on offers he receives elsewhere.

    Kurt Thomas, center/forward
    Age: 36
    Contract status: One year, $3.8 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $3,800,000
    Future: Spurs like him for what heís asked to provide. Like Bowen and Bonner, has an expiring contract that could be dealt easily.

    Ime Udoka, forward/guard
    Age: 31
    Contract status: Free agent
    09/10 Salary: N/A
    Future: For second year in a row, emerged as a dependable rotation piece late in the season. Return likely hinges on value of other offers.

    George Hill, guard
    Age: 22
    Contract status: Three years, $3.2 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $1,081,680
    Future: After solid rookie season, earned the trust of coaches in Games 4 and 5 of playoffs. Will see more time once he learns to be a point guard.

    Fabricio Oberto, center/forward
    Age: 34
    Contract status: One year, $3.5 million remaining (partially guaranteed).
    09/10 Salary: $3,500,000
    Future: Fell completely out of rotation after returning from third bout of heart arrhythmia. Spurs could cut him loose for $1.9 million.

    Jacque Vaughn, guard
    Age: 34
    Contract status: Free agent
    09/10 Salary: N/A
    Future: Appeared in just 30 games, and would see even less time if Hill continues to emerge. Return doesnít appear likely.

    Ian Mahinmi, center
    Age: 22
    Contract status: Two years, $2.6 million remaining
    09/10 Salary: $1,079,640
    Future: Injury-plagued season was a disappointment for Spurs coaches, who still donít know what they have in Mahinmi. Team has already picked up his option for next season, and heíll play in summer league.

    Marcus Williams, guard
    Age: 23
    Contract status: Free agent
    09/10 Salary: N/A
    Future: A D-League player for now. Could come to camp with Spurs next season, or could generate greater interest elsewhere.


    Unsigned Draft Picks

    C: Robertas Javtokas, 2001 NBA Draft - 56th pick
    C: Sergei Karaulov, 2004 NBA Draft - 58th pick
    SF: Viktor Sanikidze, 2004 NBA Draft - 42nd pick
    PF: Tiago Splitter, 2007 NBA Draft - 28th pick


    Sorry if anything is incorrect.

  22. #122
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    Sorry if anything is incorrect.
    Link for your post:
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s..._analysis.html

    Add Gist to unsigned draft picks

  23. #123
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    Link for your post:
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s..._analysis.html

    Add Gist to unsigned draft picks
    I added in the 09/10 salaries and unsigned drafted players...

  24. #124
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    Spurs send

    Sf - Bowen / C -Oberto / Pf - Thomas
    to Clippers For C - Kaman.

    If the clippers maintain their pick they will have to give up some things and save money. They are kinda in the same boat as the wizards.

    WHY?

    spurs - by adding Kaman you come out $2 million richer. Also Kaman can rebound, defend ( block shots ) , shoot the J and post up. He is also only 27.

    Clippers - You have Kurt thomas to make up for the rebounding you lose with Kaman. You have 2 players you can cut and get money back from. almost $4 million from the Bowen/Oberto contracts if you cut them.

    Now the spurs still have some money to play with. Immediately sign Dahntay Jones 3 or 4 $million.

    Then Sign James Singleton for a $1 Million, He is 6-8 and a good rebounder at the 3 and 4 positions, and is still in his 20's.

    Then sign Theo Ratliff , Vet. Min. He is 36 yes, But is still strong and a good post defender and can block shots. He can be our Dikembe Mutumbo.


    PF - Duncan / Mahinmi / Gist
    SF - Singleton / D.Jones / M. williams
    C - Kaman / Ratliff / Bonner
    PG - Parker / Hill
    SG - Mason Jr. / Manu

  25. #125
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    Spurs send

    Sf - Bowen / C -Oberto / Pf - Thomas
    to Clippers For C - Kaman.

    If the clippers maintain their pick they will have to give up some things and save money. They are kinda in the same boat as the wizards.

    WHY?

    spurs - by adding Kaman you come out $2 million richer. Also Kaman can rebound, defend ( block shots ) , shoot the J and post up. He is also only 27.

    Clippers - You have Kurt thomas to make up for the rebounding you lose with Kaman. You have 2 players you can cut and get money back from. almost $4 million from the Bowen/Oberto contracts if you cut them.

    Now the spurs still have some money to play with. Immediately sign Dahntay Jones 3 or 4 $million.

    Then Sign James Singleton for a $1 Million, He is 6-8 and a good rebounder at the 3 and 4 positions, and is still in his 20's.

    Then sign Theo Ratliff , Vet. Min. He is 36 yes, But is still strong and a good post defender and can block shots. He can be our Dikembe Mutumbo.


    PF - Duncan / Mahinmi / Gist
    SF - Singleton / D.Jones / M. williams
    C - Kaman / Ratliff / Bonner
    PG - Parker / Hill
    SG - Mason Jr. / Manu
    I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

    Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

    Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

    After these trades it leaves us with:

    C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
    PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
    SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
    SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
    PG: Parker, Hill

    Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

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