General Trades Discussion

[venitian navigator]

Holt has given instructions to R.C. to make the team better.
I think this include the chance of going in lux tax territory for at least two years.
Imho, like I said before, this is the right choice...'cause our window for be contenders again with the current core of the big three is at least two-three years...and then we'll need some different pieces, at least as our main options.
R.J. is the first step.

We now have the following chances to improve :

1) make another deal on draft day or after;
2) our MLE (possible to split on two players)
3) our LLE
4) our draft choices (37, 53, 55)
5) our "young" players in USA or overseas (Hairston, M. Wiliams, Splitter, Javtokas, Gist).
6) signing back, in 30 days, the players we sold (Bowen, Oberto if both or one of them cut, K. Thomas if buyed out)

I wonder if the F.O. already has a plan...

[mosdef17]

I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

After these trades it leaves us with:

C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
PG: Parker, Hill

Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

Something I wrote about a month ago there ^^^

WOW, I'm good.

[tp2021]

Bring Bowen back after they cut him, try to lure Sheed (or Dice, if not then Gooden) with the MLE.

I was close. With KT being traded instead of Bonner, they manage to find a way to save money.

[Mel_13]

Holt has given instructions to R.C. to make the team better.
I think this include the chance of going in lux tax territory for at least two years.
Imho, like I said before, this is the right choice...'cause our window for be contenders again with the current core of the big three is at least two-three years...and then we'll need some different pieces, at least as our main options.
R.J. is the first step.

We now have the following chances to improve :

1) make another deal on draft day or after;
2) our MLE (possible to split on two players)
3) our LLE
4) our draft choices (37, 53, 55)
5) our "young" players in USA or overseas (Hairston, M. Wiliams, Splitter, Javtokas, Gist).
6) signing back, in 30 days, the players we sold (Bowen, Oberto if both or one of them cut, K. Thomas if buyed out)

I wonder if the F.O. already has a plan...

You were absolutely right and I was equally wrong. You are a class act for simply moving on with the discussion without pausing to gloat.

I am shocked and thrilled that ownership has apparently authorized the expenditures necessary to construct a roster that can contend over the rest of Duncan's career. There is good reason now to be hopeful for more good news over the next two weeks.

I hope the rest of your predictions prove to be just as accurate.

[venitian navigator]

You were absolutely right and I was equally wrong. You are a class act for simply moving on with the discussion without pausing to gloat.

I am shocked and thrilled that ownership has apparently authorized the expenditures necessary to construct a roster that can contend over the rest of Duncan's career. There is good reason now to be hopeful for more good news over the next two weeks.

I hope the rest of your predictions prove to be just as accurate.

Thanks Mel!
I'm glad I was right, at least in relationship of this first step, just 'cause I think that's the best choice for everybody, fans, team and for the owner too...at the end, I Think that ten more play off games can be worth ten/twenty more million dollars...
Now let's share these following market days...

[MaNu4Tres]

That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

Only reason I gloated was because of the way you responded to my opinion in a talking down fashion in the Richard Jefferson trade thread. No hard feelings. We are all happy.

[Mel_13]

Only reason I gloated was because of the way you responded to my opinion in a talking down fashion in the Richard Jefferson trade thread. No hard feelings. We are all happy.

Man, I left you alone in the RJ thread. Now you bring it over here. With regard to our debate, you had nothing to gloat to about. Yesterday's trade proved that my position in that thread was correct and your attempts to counter it failed.

[MaNu4Tres]

Man, I left you alone in the RJ thread. Now you bring it over here. With regard to our debate, you had nothing to gloat to about. Yesterday's trade proved that my position in that thread was correct and your attempts to counter it failed.

My main point in the debate was that we could add Jefferson with our big three in tact. You claimed it was impossible. Now you pull the "I was right about it putting us in the luxury tax" card. When you were so adamant about how adding Jefferson was so stupid to even be worth discussing and how it was like starting a thread: Spurs need to sign Bron. STFU. I was trying to be nice after all that but you obviously are still butt hurt about you being wrong.

[MaNu4Tres]

That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?


Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

I rest my case your honor

[Mel_13]

Don't clutter this thread with your selective quotes. I could do the same. Get over it. The Spurs have your favorite target. They are willing to spend money. It is a day for all Spurs fans to celebrate.

[MaNu4Tres]

Don't clutter this thread with your selective quotes. I could do the same. Get over it. The Spurs have your favorite target. They are willing to spend money. It is a day for all Spurs fans to celebrate.

Wasn't my favorite target actually. I just thought it made sense just like Bruno did. But what does Bruno know.

I wasn't going to clutter this thread with your quotes that were wrong. But your last post warranted it. Sorry. And yes it is a day for Spurs fans to celebrate.

[Mel_13]

Wasn't my favorite target actually. I just thought it made sense just like Bruno did. But what does Bruno know.

I wasn't going to clutter this thread with your quotes that were wrong. But your last post warranted it. Sorry. And yes it is a day for Spurs fans to celebrate.

Read back through the RJ thread. I thought we left on good terms when we each made our last posts on May 2nd.

When you came back into the thread after the trade and had some fun at my expense, I left you to your celebration.

Venetian_Navigator and I had a debate in this thread on the likelihood that the Spurs would go way over the tax to remain a contender. He took the position that they would, I opposed. He was right, I was wrong and I admitted such.

In the RJ thread, my opposition was always about the money. In our last exchange, to use the quote you used.

Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

And you replied:

I love you too Mel 13, when I get home at around 3 a.m I will be happy to figure out a scenario. Unfortunately due to women and alcohol, I will not be able to accommodate you at this time. But I will figure out a scenario. GO SPURS GO

You never did and neither did the Spurs (and I hope you had a good time that night). Instead, they surprised us all by blowing up every bit of conventional wisdom about their fiscally conservative nature. Bravo to ownership and yay for Spurs fans everywhere.

There was plenty of extraneous commentary on both sides, but that was the crux of our debate.

With the trade, the Spurs are well over the tax and still have a gaping hole at the 4/5 positions. Based on yesterday's events, it is entirely possible that the Spurs will go further into the tax to build a contender. Scenarios like the one proposed be Venetian_Navigator in this thread and by you in the first post of the RJ thread now appear to be realistic. I want such scenarios to come true.

So, I'm happy about the trade. I'm happy that the Spurs have opened the vault. I stayed away from your celebration in the thread you started. But I can't offer you the same words I offered Venetian_Navigator. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I look forward to similar, spirited discussions in the future and I hope that the scenario you laid out comes true. That will be a great outcome for the Spurs and their fans.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how about glen davis big baby?

[Chieflion]

how about glen davis big baby?

With Dejuan Blair, I don't think we need another undersized PF. I think we need a ture center. Plus Glen Davis has proved his worth to the Celtics, most likely, they would keep him.

[tp2021]

RC went on Peter Burns show this morning. He said he didn't expect any more trades, and bigs will come through FA.

[loveforthegame]

RC went on Peter Burns show this morning. He said he didn't expect any more trades, and bigs will come through FA.

I'm sure they'll keep their options open but at this point I think it's realistic that no more trades will come right now.

MLE, Blair, Bonner
Duncan, Mahinmi, Gist
Jefferson, Finley
Mason, Ginobli, McClinton
Parker, Hill, Williams

That still leaves a roster spot open. Maybe two if they decide to let Williams go.

[Bruno]

RC went on Peter Burns show this morning. He said he didn't expect any more trades, and bigs will come through FA.

I take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, Spurs adding bigs via FA or trade will depend on Finley's choice.
If Finley picks his option, I expect a trade for a big.

[tp2021]

I take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, Spurs adding bigs via FA or trade will depend on Finley's choice.
If Finley picks his option, I expect a trade for a big.

If the Spurs trade for a big, do you think they will still try to use their exceptions?

[MaNu4Tres]

I take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, Spurs adding bigs via FA or trade will depend on Finley's choice.
If Finley picks his option, I expect a trade for a big.

I agree Bruno.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm not so sure what Finley does plays in to the decision. If Finley comes back the Spurs can just look for an opporunity to trade him to a team under the cap or one who has a trade exception. Worst case scenario would be for the Spurs to miss out on free agents because they're busy trying to swing a deal involving Finley and then come up short on the trade front. If there's a free agent out there who fills the need just go get him and worry about Finley later.

[Bruno]

If the Spurs trade for a big, do you think they will still try to use their exceptions?

I guess it will depends on who they trade and what kind of big they get.

[Blackjack]

I'm sure they'll keep their options open but at this point I think it's realistic that no more trades will come right now.

MLE, Blair, Bonner
Duncan, Mahinmi, Gist
Jefferson, Finley
Mason, Ginobli, McClinton
Parker, Hill, Williams

That still leaves a roster spot open. Maybe two if they decide to let Williams go.

I'm not able to watch video on here, but did R.C. seem like McClinton was pretty much a lock?

I ask because, it would seem a a 6' 7" point-forward would be pretty much ideal for guys like Hill and McClinton.

Could Williams be a bigger part of their plan than any of us could have expected?

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not so sure what Finley does plays in to the decision. If Finley comes back the Spurs can just look for an opporunity to trade him to a team under the cap or one who has a trade exception. Worst case scenario would be for the Spurs to miss out on free agents because they're busy trying to swing a deal involving Finley and then come up short on the trade front. If there's a free agent out there who fills the need just go get him and worry about Finley later.

Finley wouldn't be traded.

[coyotes_geek]

Finley wouldn't be traded.

???

Didn't you just agree with Bruno that if Finley picks up his option the Spurs would try and use him to trade for a big? Or did I miss Bruno's point?

Either way, I still say the Spurs should just go use the MLE on a big and worry about Finley later.

[Bruno]

The problem with dumping Finley to a team under the cap or with a TE big enough isn't that easy. Teams with cap space are often in rebuilding mode and Finley has no value for these teams. Spurs had a hard time dumping Jackie Butler salary 2 years ago. Detroit hasn't been able to fully dump Amir Johnson contract this year.

Take aside scrubs, players that aren't available and players with a too big salary and there should have about an half dozen big man who could be trade targets. Spurs can see if they can get one of these players. It's not like it will take them the whole July month and will prevent them to go after FA.