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  1. #151
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Seven of the nine sitting justices on the Supreme Court were nominated by Republican presidents.

    So Obama picks more or less a justice with the ideological background which we would expect. Yet another part of the great Bush 'legacy.'

  2. #152
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    So, and just to be fair, you're basing this racism on the "better" comment and the Ricci case? You think that's going to convince the Senate she's a racist and not worthy of a pick on the SC?
    “Every day that goes by that they don’t say she misspoke and she used the wrong words… they just feed it and give it life and give Rush and Hannity more airtime unnecessarily.”
    There really is no way to parse this as a judicial statement from Judge Sonia Sotomayor: “I would hope that a wise Latina woman, with the richness of her experiences, would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.”

    Democrat Davis is asking for a retraction, as is Democrat Chris Lehane: “In this day and age, six or seven or eight weeks is a long time to go without addressing an issue that can potentially take on a life of its own and evolve and grow.”

    Conservative Larry Sabato: “Judge Sotomayor would be wise not to tap dance around this. Don’t just ‘clarify’ the statement, take it back.”

    The quotes are via Politico.

  3. #153
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So you didn't read the whole statement.

    Ignorant.

  4. #154
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    So you didn't read the whole statement.

    Ignorant.
    I've read the entire speech, the quote is still racist.

  5. #155
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Nah. If it was you would post the entire passage every time -- but lying is what you do.

    In our private conversations, Judge [Miriam] Cedarbaum has pointed out to me that seminal decisions in race and sex discrimination cases have come from Supreme Courts composed exclusively of white males. I agree that this is significant but I also choose to emphasize that the people who argued those cases before the Supreme Court which changed the legal landscape ultimately were largely people of color and women. I recall that Justice Thurgood Marshall, Judge Connie Baker Motley, the first black woman appointed to the federal bench, and others of the NAACP argued Brown v. Board of Education. Similarly, Justice [Ruth Bader] Ginsburg, with other women attorneys, was instrumental in advocating and convincing the Court that equality of work required equality in terms and conditions of employment.

    Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice [Sandra Day] O'Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure Justice O'Connor is the author of that line since Professor Resnik attributes that line to Supreme Court Justice Coyle. I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.

    Let us not forget that wise men like Oliver Wendell Holmes and Justice [Benjamin] Cardozo voted on cases which upheld both sex and race discrimination in our society. Until 1972, no Supreme Court case ever upheld the claim of a woman in a gender discrimination case. I, like Professor Carter, believe that we should not be so myopic as to believe that others of different experiences or backgrounds are incapable of understanding the values and needs of people from a different group. Many are so capable. As Judge Cedarbaum pointed out to me, nine white men on the Supreme Court in the past have done so on many occasions and on many issues including Brown.

    However, to understand takes time and effort, something that not all people are willing to give. For others, their experiences limit their ability to understand the experiences of others. Other simply do not care. Hence, one must accept the proposition that a difference there will be by the presence of women and people of color on the bench. Personal experiences affect the facts that judges choose to see.

  6. #156
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    As much an iden y politics pick as selecting a pro-life Italian-American Catholic for the high court.

  7. #157
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    Nah. If it was you would post the entire passage every time -- but lying is what you do.
    Okay, now I've read it again and the quote...

    Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.
    ...is still a racist statement.

  8. #158
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You're still an ignorant liar.

  9. #159
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    You're still an ignorant liar.
    So, why don't you enlighten me as to how, even in the context of the entire speech, saying you "hope," (and, in that context the word hope and expect are interchangeable), "a wise latina would make better decisions than a white male," isn't a racist statement.

  10. #160
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So, why don't you enlighten me as to how, even in the context of the entire speech, saying you "hope," (and, in that context the word hope and expect are interchangeable), "a wise latina would make better decisions than a white male," isn't a racist statement.
    No, "hope" and "expect" are not the same word.

    You are lying about that too -- but you are an ignorant liar. It's your thing.

  11. #161
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    No, "hope" and "expect" are not the same word.

    You are lying about that too -- but you are an ignorant liar. It's your thing.
    Okay, if I said that Tim Duncan could probably skunk me in a pickup game of basketball, would it be fair to say that if you replied, as is possible, "Well, I would hope so!" would be the same as say, "Well, I would expect so!"

    That's the context in which I see her using the word "hope"

    Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life.
    And, if you don't agree with my characterization, why would she "hope" this by any other meaning of the word?

  12. #162
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    One could certainly hope Tim Duncan would lose to one in a pickup game while not expecting it to happen.

    There's your difference.

  13. #163
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    One could certainly hope Tim Duncan would lose to one in a pickup game while not expecting it to happen.

    There's your difference.
    That doesn't match the context in which she used the word hope. Sorry.

    But, let's go with that...why, exactly, would she hope but, not expect, a wise latina woman would render better decisions than a while male? On what is she basing that hope?

  14. #164
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    That doesn't match the context in which she used the word hope. Sorry.
    Sure it did. Sorry you got ed by your own stupid example.

  15. #165
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that you continue to argue (and, rather poorly, I might add) the semantics of the particular quote than to explain to me how, in the context of the speech, it's not racist.

    Which of her other statements puts the quote in the non-discriminatory light in which you view it? Or, how, in the totality of the speech, does she counter or, better yet, make what she said not mean that she "would hope a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life?"

  16. #166
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that you continue to argue (and, rather poorly, I might add) the semantics of the particular quote than to explain to me how, in the context of the speech, it's not racist.
    All I had to do was post the rest of the passage.

    Which I already did.

    I find it interesting that you are too stupid to understand.

  17. #167
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    Sure it did. Sorry you got ed by your own stupid example.
    No, it doesn't.

    Your example proposes the one hoping is the one playing against Duncan. Her quote proposes that any wise Latina woman would render better decisions than a white male.

    Are you suggesting she's self-describing as "wise Latina woman" and hoping, that as such, she'd be able to render better decisions than a white male? And, even if so, how is that not a racist statement?

    Ascribing a hope or expectation on the outcome of something that should be void of ethnic or racial influence, such as the law, is -- by definition -- racist. And, I don't care if it is a hope (in your use of the word) or an expectation (in the use I believe she intended it).

  18. #168
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Sure it does.

    Sorry you don't get it. I can't wave a wand and make you less of an idiot.

  19. #169
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    All I had to do was post the rest of the passage.

    Which I already did.

    I find it interesting that you are too stupid to understand.
    Nothing in the rest of her speech exculpates her.

  20. #170
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    Nothing in the rest of her speech exculpates her.
    There's nothing to exculpate, counselor. There's just you being an idiot.

    She'll be confirmed, and you'll keep stealing and lying.

    She's better than you.

    And you're a white guy.

    That's gotta sting.

  21. #171
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    There's nothing to exculpate, counselor. There's just you being an idiot.

    She'll be confirmed, and you'll keep stealing and lying.

    She's better than you.

    And you're a white guy.

    That's gotta sting.
    I never said she wouldn't be confirmed. But, it's far from certain anymore.

    And, just because you dance around and avoid explaining exactly how her statement isn't racist, doesn't mean you successfully argues your point. Calling me an idiot isn't a winner either.

  22. #172
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    See ya, Yoni.

    I'm going to read a chapter of Great Hopetations.

    Keep expect alive!

  23. #173
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    I haven't seen anything from her that would really change the court one way or another.

    The nunchuks case was a loser even in light of the er decision since they aren't common self-defense weapons. The ability of the state to regulate with its own laws is fairly well established, but could be more clearly constrained by future court decisions.
    I believe her position is that states have the right to statutorily infringe on the 2nd amendment.

    From what I understand, the ruling in which she concurred, relied on an 1889 Supreme Court decision that excluded the 2nd amendment from an "incorporation" ruling of an earlier court. But, that the finding completely ignored er.

    She apparently has no problem with the incorporation of the First amendment -- even those it specifically says "Congress shall make no law...," which to the lawyers I've been reading is more dubious than the wording of the 2nd amendment which pointed states the "right...shall not be abridged..."

    Apparently the argument hasn't come up before the court very often but, in light of the er case and that the 1889 ruling is probably faulty, and would be decided differently today (especially in light of er), the general feeling is that the 2nd Amendment would, in fact, be re-established as being part of the "incorporation" finding.

    I'm paraphrasing several different sources but, that's the gist of it.
    the gun forums I'm a member of are, so far, ambivalent towards her. Many think that she will be "middle of the road" and would not be as bad as the other contenders for the seat. Others think she will be bad for gun owners.

    So I am undecided until I know more facts about the whole matter.

    I recuse myself from this thread...
    Thank you, thank you and thank you.

  24. #174
    Believe. FaithInOne's Avatar
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    The gun market can't get any worse. At this point they could outright say they are banning guns in 10 days and the demand for ammo would not even increase It can't.


  25. #175
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    the republicans are worried about how to attack her now...

    they don't want to hurt themselves with the Hispanic vote in the future...

    I know I recused myself from this thread, but I meant the gun discussion part of this thread.

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