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  1. #126
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    Its fairly well known that the Iranian public does not view the US - or more specifically our government - in a good way.
    Very true but I don't think you can say the same about the ideals of our country.

  2. #127
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    This is a complete hypothetical:

    If Iran does fall into a civil war for control over the country what happens if Russia steps in and sends troops to help out? Iran is one of their allies atm and a complete regime change would perhaps change that. What do we do then? Is it fair then to not step in? Can we step in?

    It's not like we're allies with Iran. At the same time if another country sends military aid which could perhaps turn the tide against the reformers, could we afford to not take advantage of a perhaps singular moment in which Iran could experience regime change?
    There would have to be alot of other crazy developments, but no doubt US would take it as a total risk to their security interests if Russia did that, in regards to energy export, the Iraqi war, and the Afpak war. I don't think Russia has enough clout at the moment to do such a thing, and I think China would not look to kindly if Russia unilaterally did something like that either.

    Plus I think it would only fuel the opposition (not to mention piss off the muslim world as a whole, thereby pissing off the regimes controlling them) if three(four) contiguous muslim states were being occupied by foreign troops

  3. #128
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    I wouldn't be 100% surprised if there are CIA agents giving info to contacts to be honest. I'd actually be surprised if that wasn't happening.
    I hope the CIA isn't involved. They're so good at ing things up.

  4. #129
    These aren't the droids you're looking for jman3000's Avatar
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    I hope the CIA isn't involved. They're so good at ing things up.
    IDK... they handled the JFK assassination and carrying out 9/11 pretty well....

  5. #130
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    IDK... they handled the JFK assassination and carrying out 9/11 pretty well....
    I forgot about those.

  6. #131
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    http://elections.7rooz.com/link/845/

    This is one of the most incredible things I've ever seen (not the video, just in general). The Iranian people are fighting for freedom! There is such passion! It's amazing, sad, and beautiful at the same time.
    Last edited by Cry Havoc; 06-20-2009 at 04:20 PM.

  7. #132
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    19 people died in unrest Saturday in Tehran, hospital sources said. Unconfirmed reports put the death toll at 150.

    Per CNN.com breaking news headline.

  8. #133
    These aren't the droids you're looking for jman3000's Avatar
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    Looks like information isn't coming in as steadily as it was prior.

    We'll get more information in 6 or so hours when day breaks and the information stream starts trickling again.

  9. #134
    Believe. FaithInOne's Avatar
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    Continue Westernizing the Iranians and they will keep this up. Life is good when you have a nice place to live, technology to have fun with, and good times all around. Government because of humanity's flaws is a cancer on society in general, but democracy is decent enough.

    "Supreme Leaders" dressed up in Window Curtains bossing you all around? that. Don't throw stones, throw bones

  10. #135
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I don't see Obama's statement as being much different from his previous ones.
    Continue Westernizing the Iranians and they will keep this up. Life is good when you have a nice place to live, technology to have fun with, and good times all around.
    How 1978 of you.

  11. #136
    These aren't the droids you're looking for jman3000's Avatar
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    Taken from the Daily Dish...

    "In the name of God, the kind and the merciful

    Indeed god demands you to safe keep what people entrust in you, and to rule them with justice. [this a verse of Koran]

    Respectable and intelligent people of Iran, These nights and days, a pivotal moment in our history is taking place. People ask each other: “what should we do?, which way should we go?”. It is my duty to share with you what I believe, and to learn from you, may we never forget our historical task and not give up on the duty we are given by the destiny of times and generations.

    30 years ago, in this country a revolution became victorious in the name of Islam, a revolution for freedom, a revolution for reviving the dignity of men, a revolution for truth and justice. In those times, especially when our enlightened Imam [Khomeini] was alive, large amount of lives and matters were invested to legitimize this foundation and many valuable achievements were attained. An unprecedented enlightenment captured our society, and our people reached a new life where they endured the hardest of hardships with a sweet taste. What this people gained was dignity and freedom and a gift of the life of the pure ones [i.e. 12 Imams of Shiites]. I am certain that those who have seen those days will not be satisfied with anything less. Had we as a people lost certain talents that we were unable to experience that early spirituality? I had come to say that that was not the case. It is not late yet, we are not far from that enlightened space yet.

    I had come to show that it was possible to live spiritually while living in a modern world. I had come to repeat Imam’s warnings about fundamentalism. I had come to say that evading the law leads to dictatorship; and to remind that paying attention to people’s dignity does not diminish the foundations of the regime, but strengthens it.

    I had come to say that people wish honesty and integrity from their servants, and that many of our perils have arisen from lies. I had come to say that poverty and backwardness, corruption and injustice were not our destiny. I had come to re-invite to the Islamic revolution, as it had to be, and Islamic republic as it has to be. In this invitation, I was not charismatic [articulate], but the core message of revolution was so appealing that it surpassed my articulation and excited the young generation who had not seen those days to recreate scenes which we had not seen since the days of revolution[1979] and the sacred defense. The people’s movement chose green as its symbol. I confess that in this, I followed them.

    And a generation that was accused of being removed from religion, has now reached “God is Great”, “Victory’s of God and victory’s near”, “Ya hossein” in their chants to prove that when this tree fruits, they all resemble. No one taught hem these slogans, they reached them by the teachings of instinct.


    How unfair are those whose petty advantages make them call this a “velvet revolution” staged by foreigners! [refering to state TV and Khameneni, perhaps!] But as you know, all of us were faced with deception and cheatings when we claimed to revitalize our nation and realize dreams that root in the hearts of young and old. And that which we had predicted will stem from evading law [dictatorship], realized soon in the worst manifestation.

    The large voter turnout in recent election was the result of hard work to create hope and confidence in people, to create a deserving response to those whose broad dissatisfaction with the existing management crisis could have targeted the foundations of the regime. If this good will and trust of the poeple is not addressed via protecting their votes, or if they cannot react in a civil manner to claim their rights, the responsibility of the dangerous routs ahead will be on the shoulders of those who do not tolerate civil protests. If the large volume of cheating and vote rigging, which has set fire to the hays of people’s anger, is expressed as the evidence of fairness, the republican nature of the state will be killed and in practice, the ideology that Islam and Republicanism are incompatible will be proven.

    This outcome will make two groups happy: One, those who since the beginning of revolution stood against Imam and called the Islamic state a dictatorship of the elite who want to take people to heaven by force; and the other, those who in defending the human rights, consider religion and Islam against republicanism. Imam’s fantastic art was to neutralize these dichotomies. I had come to focus on Imam’s approach to neutralize the burgeoning magic of these. Now, by confirming the results of election, by limiting the extent of investigation in a manner that the outcome will not be changed, even though in more than 170 branches the number of cast votes was more than 100% of eligible voters of the riding, the heads of the state have accepted the responsibility of what has happened during the election.

    In these conditions, we are asked to follow our complaints via the Guardian council, while this council has proven its bias, not only before and during, but also after the election. The first principle of judgment is to be impartial. I, continue to strongly believe that the request for annulling the vote and repeating the election is a definite right that has to be considered by impartial and nationally trusted delegation. Not to dismiss the results of this investigation a priori, or to prevent people from demonstration by threatening them to bloodshed. Nor to unleash the Intelligence ministry’s plain clothes forces on people’s lives to disperse crowds by intimidation and inflammation, instead of responding to people’s legitimate questions, and then blaming the bloodshed on others.

    As I am looking at the scene, I see it set for advancing a new political agenda that spreads beyond the objective of installing an unwanted government. As a companion who has seen the beauties of your green wave, I will never allow any one’s life endangered because of my actions. At the same time, I remain undeterred on my demand for annulling the election and demanding people’s rights. Despite my limited abilities, I believe that your motivation and creativity can pursue your legitimate demands in new civil manners.

    Be sure that I will always stand with you. What this brother of yours recommends, especially to the dear youth, in terms of finding new solutions is to not allow liars and cheater steal your flag of defense of Islamic state, and foreigners rip the treasures of the Islamic republic which are your inheritance of the blood of your decent fathers. By trust in God, and hope for the future, and leaning on the strength of social movements, claim your rights in the frameworks of the existing cons ution, based on principle of non-violence.

    In this, we are not confronting the Basij. Basiji is our brother. In this we are not confronting the revolutionary guard. The guard is the keeper of our revolution. We are not confronting the army, the army is the keeper of our borders. These organs are the keepers of our independence, freedom and our Islamic republic. We are confronting deception and lies, we want to reform them, a reform by return to the pure principles of revolution.

    We advise the authorities, to calm down the streets. Based on article 27 of the cons ution, not only provide space for peaceful protest, but also encourage such gatherings. The state TV should stop badmouthing and taking sides. Before voices turn into shouting, let them be heard in reasonable debates. Let the press criticize, and write the news as they happen. In one word, create a free space for people to express their agreements and disagreements. Let those who want, say “takbeer” and don’t consider it opposition. It is clear that in this case, there won’t be a need for security forces on the streets, and we won’t have to face pictures and hear news that break the heart of anyone who loves the country and the revolution.

    Your brother and companion Mir Hossein Mousavi

    It sounds like he's calling for revolution by framing it as a "non revolution" revolution. He wants to preserve the 1979 revolution by having a 2009 one.

  12. #137
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I have several Iranian friends and, from my conversations when them over the years, I think the notion of widespread hatred of the US, especially among younger people, is grossly exaggerated. Don't confuse their govt. and clerics with their general population.
    That's what my Iranian friends also tell me, but we're also both conditioning on knowing Iranians who came to the US on their own (or their parents') free will. There's a lot of hope for Iran to get rid of the Islamic nutcases, but sadly Pakistan is right there to take their place.

  13. #138
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I really hope these guys are successful in removing trash like Ahmadinejad and his cronies. I have always wanted to go see Tehran and the enormous mountains behind it, but of course I wouldn't do it under the fundamentalist rule there.

  14. #139
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Continue Westernizing the Iranians and they will keep this up. Life is good when you have a nice place to live, technology to have fun with, and good times all around...

    "Supreme Leaders" dressed up in Window Curtains bossing you all around? that.
    Mir Hossein Mousavi, and I dare say very many of his followers, see it a little differently:

    30 years ago, in this country a revolution became victorious in the name of Islam, a revolution for freedom, a revolution for reviving the dignity of men, a revolution for truth and justice. In those times, especially when our enlightened Imam [Khomeini] was alive, large amount of lives and matters were invested to legitimize this foundation and many valuable achievements were attained. An unprecedented enlightenment captured our society, and our people reached a new life where they endured the hardest of hardships with a sweet taste. What this people gained was dignity and freedom and a gift of the life of the pure ones [i.e. 12 Imams of Shiites]. I am certain that those who have seen those days will not be satisfied with anything less. Had we as a people lost certain talents that we were unable to experience that early spirituality? I had come to say that that was not the case. It is not late yet, we are not far from that enlightened space yet.

    I had come to show that it was possible to live spiritually while living in a modern world. I had come to repeat Imam’s warnings about fundamentalism. I had come to say that evading the law leads to dictatorship; and to remind that paying attention to people’s dignity does not diminish the foundations of the regime, but strengthens it.

  15. #140
    Believe. PEP's Avatar
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    Yeah, the bankruptcy of the Soviet system and the free market's being established there had nothing to do with it.

    Americans take way too much credit for the positive events in foreign lands and none of the blame for the bad.

    The change here is being caused by the ty state of Iran in general and the incredulous elections results given those conditions.
    Are you always this dumb? Seriously, I'm not joking, I use to think you just played around with your never ending question after question. But I guess thats what you're all about.

    Its unfortunate that you've always had someone to clean up after and baby you.

  16. #141
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I didn't ask a question in that one, but I will now.

    What specifically is your problem with my post?

  17. #142
    Believe. PEP's Avatar
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    None of that means they view the United States in a good light. This is what you don't understand. The fact that they're protesting their government does not mean they like a country who has ed over their country many times in the past.
    How so?

  18. #143
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Are you always this dumb?

  19. #144
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    The seeds have been there for over 100 years -- there's just a lot of that kept them from growing.
    Mostly the US backing the repressive anti-Islam regimes.

  20. #145
    #FreeGiuseppe BlackSwordsMan's Avatar
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    nvm found it

  21. #146
    #FreeGiuseppe BlackSwordsMan's Avatar
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    Where's the obama speech the first article was talking about?

  22. #147
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT

    Not embedding this due to the subject matter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlehNLfk90c

    Horrible.

  23. #148
    These aren't the droids you're looking for jman3000's Avatar
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    Not to be an asshole... but welcome to 6 hours ago.

  24. #149
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Well it is the weekend. Not everyone is following this as closely as you.

  25. #150
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Oh, I don't know...maybe overthrowing a legitimate regime and installing a brutal puppet government?


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