Next Moves

[timvp]

Hypothetical question:
As we were all awaiting the start of free agency and were tossing around possible Spurs FA targets, most of us never dreamed Trevor Ariza would leave the Fakers. Obviously, his departure came after the RJ trade. In hindsight and looking at the events that took place, does anybody wish the Spurs could've somehow managed to wrestle him away from the Fakers? If so, would the RJ trade still have been necessary?

RJ is a better player than Ariza. And if the Spurs would have gone after Ariza, there wouldn't have been room for McDyess.

RJ + McDyess >>> Ariza

[SenorSpur]

This is a trade that could actually get done. Think about it for a few seconds, before flaming:

Mason and Bonner to Detroit for Allen Iverson. It would be a sign and trade for Detroit, for about $5.6M. Iverson is talking about playing for Milwaukee for around $5M, so the money isn't a problem. It would save the Spurs almost $3M in cash this season, counting the Lux Tax. I think Iverson would jump at the chance to get a ring - the Spurs could probably get a team option on a second year at a reduced rate, in case he works out.

I know all the arguments against him. But he can still put up a load of points. And we were seriously considering Rasheed Wallace. Tell me he doesn't have at least as much baggage.

Don't even have to read the details of your trade proposal. Were you not watching the Pistons last year, when AI single-handedly caused that team to implode on itself? He refused to modify his style to suit the Pistons team concepts, never fit in (on or off the court and supposedly never talked to anyone while there), and finally he refused to blend in by coming off the bench.

Even now that he's a man without a country, he's offering conditions:
1. Refuses to play for the veterans minimum
2. Refuses to come off any team's bench.

AI has always played ball for AI - nothing more & nothing less. Sure, he's always played hard. He's always relied on his natural, god-given scoring abilities to get him over. It's worked up until that past year or so. It's just at this point in career, his skills and his FG% are declining, yet he still dominates the ball too much and continues jacking up shots at his usual incredible rate. He's basically a bad fit anywhere. STAY AWAY!

[SenorSpur]

RJ is a better player than Ariza. And if the Spurs would have gone after Ariza, there wouldn't have been room for McDyess.

RJ + McDyess >>> Ariza

+1.
No question about it. I'd say it worked out pretty well.

[Blackjack]

Sefolosha is a young, improving player. Very athletic. Superb defender. Although I wouldn't say he's got the edge or the at ude to check a guy like Kobe. He be a wonderful defensive stopper, but desparately needs work on his shooting.

Don't be fooled, Thabo's fearless and pefectly capable of getting under ones skin. The best way I know to describe Thabo is D. Christie with balls. He's not the finished/polished player Christie was at his prime but he's got a similar ability to play the point-forward role (similar not as good) and he brings similar length and versatility. But, he also brings a physicality and toughness that maybe only Doug's wife might've had. (She's one tough dude) His offense is pretty decent inside the 3-point arc but he'd be greatly helped by some consistency in a good structure system where he knew where his shots were coming from. His 3-ball definitely does need some improving.(Although, he seemed to hit them against the Spurs in OKC)

IOW, I should really be his agent.

[mathbzh]

I have a real problem with Diaw. He is one of my favorite player in the NBA (I am french).
But I don't think he is a player who can be effective playing for a contender. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He is great for a Bobcat team without a true leader or for the Suns without Stoudemire.
But if he had to be the 5th option behind Parker/Duncan/Jefferson/Ginobili I am afraid he would disappear like he did with the Suns once Amare came back.
Moreover, 9M$ a year for a 5th option sounds a bit excessive.

[MaNu4Tres]

Don't be fooled, Thabo's fearless and pefectly capable of getting under ones skin. The best way I know to describe Thabo is D. Christie with balls. He's not the finished/polished player Christie was at his prime but he's got a similar ability to play the point-forward role (similar not as good) and he brings similar length and versatility. But, he also brings a physicality and toughness that maybe only Doug's wife might've had. (She's one tough dude) His offense is pretty decent inside the 3-point arc but he'd be greatly helped by some consistency in a good structure system where he knew where his shots were coming from. His 3-ball definitely does need some improving.(Although, he seemed to hit them against the Spurs in OKC)

IOW, I should really be his agent.

I doubt Presti traded a 1st rounder for a one year rental of Thabo. He will stay a Thunder even when his rookie scale contract runs out. No reason to trade him from Presti's perspective.

[poeticism707]

You're insane then! We can do FINLEY and Bonner for Bell!

[Blackjack]

I doubt Presti traded a 1st rounder for a one year rental of Thabo. He will stay a Thunder even when his rookie scale contract runs out. No reason to trade him from Presti's perspective.

Let's not let logic get in the way of my love-fest.

[scottspurs]

I think the Spurs are doing whatever they can to dump the salaries of Bonner and Finley. It may not result in anything of value coming to the spurs, but it will open up roster spots.

[montgod]

I actually think the Spurs will be going in the direction of a 3rd pg. Hill and Mason (I hope Pop decides against using him in this spot) are okay... but not true pgs just yet. JJack would be a perfect addition, but maybe a little overkill for a 3rd pg. Price, Carter, and Hunter are decent cheap 3rd pgs also.

[MaNu4Tres]

I actually think the Spurs will be going in the direction of a 3rd pg. Hill and Mason (I hope Pop decides against using him in this spot) are okay... but not true pgs just yet. JJack would be a perfect addition, but maybe a little overkill for a 3rd pg. Price, Carter, and Hunter are decent cheap 3rd pgs also.

3rd pg is irrelevant. There's no minutes available for such a player anyway.

McClinton will be the 3rd PG , just for solely defending the opposing PG's and hitting down the open shot while Manu/ Hill/ RJ are doing the creating off the dribble offensively.

Jared Jack would be a great back up. Spurs already have that in Hill. No need to waste money/ roster spot on that. Especially with how many promising young cheap 2nd round picks we have all working their tails off to earn a spot on the roster.

[poeticism707]

Let's not let logic get in the way of my love-fest.

[Kamnik]

And anyway, just no. He showed how cancerous he can be, and we have enough scoring. Why take the risk?

+1

I wouldn't want AI on this team even if he paid 1 mil to be here.

[mystargtr34]

I think Battier is probably the most overrated defender in the league. He had one good game against Kobe two years ago and it became legendary. That said, of course you trade Finley and Bonner for him. He also fits the Spurs personality and has the same agent as Tim in Lon Babby.

I think they might trade for a point guard though. We have a bunch of guys who can play backup point in a pinch, but the Spurs may want more than that.

I think he might be slightly over rated in general. But hes still the ultimate glue guy and role player any team would like to have. After the playoff series between Houston and the Lakers, i dont think he's that over rated as a defender. There hasnt really been anyone who has defended Kobe better since Bruce Bowen back in about 2004. He was awesome defensively in that series.

[Bruno]

Among players presented by MB, Foster and Nocioni are the most interesting and realistic.

I also liked Collison but with the McDyess signing and with Collison's lack of shooting, he is clearly behind a player like Foster.

Between getting a C like Foster and a SF/PF like Nocioni, I'm not sure what is the best because it depends on what some of the players (Haislip, Hairston, Mahinmi..) will do next year. Spurs' FO has a better idea about that than us and if they are quite sure about their evaluations, they won't have to wait SL or the training camp to do a move.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

News flash - Dahntay Jones to the Pacers, 11mil/4yrs.

[alamo50]

Awesom post MB.
I'll take Sefolosha.

[mystargtr34]

Personally, i would go with another big first. The team still only has one true '7 footer' in Timmy. If he gets into foul trouble, there's not much size their to defend and rebound against teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs and even the Blazers.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Manu4Tres made a really good point about Bonner/Finley and our current big rotation, and it goes like this... premises:
* in the bigman rotation, we currently have 3 proven vets in TD, Dice (and Bonner), and 3 unknown quan ies in Mahinmi, Blair and Haislip,
* Bonner+Finley+Williams (or other small contract), plus pick/cash = guys like Foster and Camby.

So, is it wiser to trade Bon/ley and shore up the big rotation now with another vet just in case our 3 younguns fail, or better to hold on to Bon/ley as trade chips for closer to the deadline when we could make a similar move if things don't work out?

There are other variables here like whether or not we could currently trade for a guy like Camby (unlikely), what the we are going to do with Gist (Toros? Defensive 3?), what about the wing stopper we badly need, and how many bloody players are we going to sign this year (?), but let's stick to the central question.

My 2c:

(1) Keep Finley (as a shooter in spot minutes, and mentor), and Bonner (as a matchup/situational player), and both as trade chips for later in the season in case we need to trade for another big. Sign a cheap stopper (like Bowen) now. Play lots of the youngsters early in the season and DO NOT rely on Bonner and (especially) Finley for more than occasional duty (can we trust Pop to do this?).

Unfortunately, this means no Bell/other stopper.

OR

(2) Trade for Bell/other stopper right now and cross your fingers that the younguns fill out the big rotation as expected.

I'm torn. but leaning towards the second option - we spent money on Haislip, I believe Mahinmi has talent, and Blair looks to be a beast (but for the ACLs, he would have gone lottery). We need a stopper more than anything else, and it removes from Pop the temptation to fall back on his vets. In other words, BELIEVE in the youth!

However, tough choice.

Comments?

[Spurs da champs]

I think Battier is probably the most overrated defender in the league. He had one good game against Kobe two years ago and it became legendary. That said, of course you trade Finley and Bonner for him. He also fits the Spurs personality and has the same agent as Tim in Lon Babby.

I think they might trade for a point guard though. We have a bunch of guys who can play backup point in a pinch, but the Spurs may want more than that.

Thank you.

But why trade for a point guard, we've got george hill? They need somebody at the small foward a solid back up for RJ.

[mountainballer]

as good as the Spurs front court looks, it still lacks some size. either to compete with the Lakers, as well as the Celtics or Cavs in the possible finals.
we also shouldn't totally ignore the Mavs, adding Gortat, Marion and (in an under the rader move) Ross will make them a deep and versatile team.
so Foster would help a lot. he is the guy you can put on Gasol, Dirk, KG, Sheed as well as on Shaq. I agree that a player like Collison no longer makes much sense with McDyess on the roster.

I mention a possible move, that many of you will call pathetic, but I carelessly still mention it:

Matt Bonner for Kwame Brown.

that's just two guys with few or no future with their current teams swap places, with the small chance that they fill more needs in their new place.
pistons might like it, because that way they increase their cap space for about 750K.
I don't know exactly how much room they have left (we discussed in a lot because of the potential McDyess offers), it should be somewhere between 2 and 3 million $.
it does make a huge difference for them, if they could for example offer a target like Brandon Bass a contract starting at 3.2 instead of 2.5 million. (that's additional 2.5 million over 3 years) and that way finally get him.
the upside for the Spurs would be, that we get a guy with the size, athleticism and mobility we will need. Kwame did have some moments in the past, when he looked as if he could develop into a helpful defender. if there is potential in this department, Pop will discover it.

[poeticism707]

as good as the Spurs front court looks, it still lacks some size. either to compete with the Lakers, as well as the Celtics or Cavs in the possible finals.
we also shouldn't totally ignore the Mavs, adding Gortat, Marion and (in an under the rader move) Ross will make them a deep and versatile team.
so Foster would help a lot. he is the guy you can put on Gasol, Dirk, KG, Sheed as well as on Shaq. I agree that a player like Collison no longer makes much sense with McDyess on the roster.

I mention a possible move, that many of you will call pathetic, but I carelessly still mention it:

Matt Bonner for Kwame Brown.

that's just two guys with few or no future with their current teams swap places, with the small chance that they fill more needs in their new place.
pistons might like it, because that way they increase their cap space for about 750K.
I don't know exactly how much room they have left (we discussed in a lot because of the potential McDyess offers), it should be somewhere between 2 and 3 million $.
it does make a huge difference for them, if they could for example offer a target like Brandon Bass a contract starting at 3.2 instead of 2.5 million. (that's additional 2.5 million over 3 years) and that way finally get him.
the upside for the Spurs would be, that we get a guy with the size, athleticism and mobility we will need. Kwame did have some moments in the past, when he looked as if he could develop into a helpful defender. if there is potential in this department, Pop will discover it.

I like that trade! Spurs need all the help they can get in the frontcourt.

[TJastal]

I think Popovich will keep Bonner around for his 3pt shooting. If they had signed Wallace instead of McDyess then I could see dealing Bonner, but as it stands, he is the lone proven 3pt shooter among the bigs and I think Pop will enjoy being able to use him situationally as needed.

[Darkwaters]

Manu4Tres made a really good point about Bonner/Finley and our current big rotation, and it goes like this... premises:
* in the bigman rotation, we currently have 3 proven vets in TD, Dice (and Bonner), and 3 unknown quan ies in Mahinmi, Blair and Haislip,
* Bonner+Finley+Williams (or other small contract), plus pick/cash = guys like Foster and Camby.

So, is it wiser to trade Bon/ley and shore up the big rotation now with another vet just in case our 3 younguns fail, or better to hold on to Bon/ley as trade chips for closer to the deadline when we could make a similar move if things don't work out?

There are other variables here like whether or not we could currently trade for a guy like Camby (unlikely), what the we are going to do with Gist (Toros? Defensive 3?), what about the wing stopper we badly need, and how many bloody players are we going to sign this year (?), but let's stick to the central question.

My 2c:

(1) Keep Finley (as a shooter in spot minutes, and mentor), and Bonner (as a matchup/situational player), and both as trade chips for later in the season in case we need to trade for another big. Sign a cheap stopper (like Bowen) now. Play lots of the youngsters early in the season and DO NOT rely on Bonner and (especially) Finley for more than occasional duty (can we trust Pop to do this?).

Unfortunately, this means no Bell/other stopper.

OR

(2) Trade for Bell/other stopper right now and cross your fingers that the younguns fill out the big rotation as expected.

I'm torn. but leaning towards the second option - we spent money on Haislip, I believe Mahinmi has talent, and Blair looks to be a beast (but for the ACLs, he would have gone lottery). We need a stopper more than anything else, and it removes from Pop the temptation to fall back on his vets. In other words, BELIEVE in the youth!

However, tough choice.

Comments?

This is why I'm advocating for Andres Nocioni. He can play both on the perimeter and on the block. Plus his rapport with Ginobili already makes him a little more useful from day 1.

[stéphane]

A lot of people are including Finley in packages but I would be honestly surprised to see the spurs letting him go. They value him too much as a veteran and a solid piece on and off the court.