Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard

[whottt]

There is enough evidence to conclude Wilt was a better jumper, there's some evidence he might have been faster, but it's not borne out in any video evidence...and there's nothing to prove he was stronger, or more coordinated.


And David's FT shooting had nothing to do with skill...David never worked on his game, especially hit FT shooting.

Wilt was just about the worst FT shooter in history and he took more of them than just about anyone.

He sucked at it...and it is coordination.


And it was a weakness in his game that could be easily exploited...David had no such weaknesses.

David's only weakness was being doubled and tripled team, which is the exact same weakness Wilt had. And it's not really a weakness either....

[wildbill2u]

Interesting that no one has mentioned how soft DROB was. He really didn't create fear in his opponents by taking it to the hoop with authority all that much. Very seldom did he get hyped enough to really slam one down.

He preferred to take soft jumpters from outside a lot of the time, even when the lane was open to such a fast mobile player. I used to cuss him all the time for not causing more fouls from his defender. He should have led the league in foul shots every year.

[whottt]

Interesting that no one has mentioned how soft DROB was. He really didn't create fear in his opponents by taking it to the hoop with authority all that much. Very seldom did he get hyped enough to really slam one down.

He preferred to take soft jumpters from outside a lot of the time, even when the lane was open to such a fast mobile player. I used to cuss him all the time for not causing more fouls from his defender. He should have led the league in foul shots every year.

I guess Tim Duncan is soft then, because he's never lead the NBA in dunks or Free Throw Attempts, both of which David Robinson did, multiple times.


At least David's team never finished in last place and he never missed the playoffs, with him healthy.

The same cannot be said of Wilt.


And they said Wilt was soft too...because he couldn't win a le against teams with multiple HOF'ers when he had on his roster.

[whottt]

I think it's enormously ironic that people call David Robinson soft when he played on more Team USA teams than any other player, when he played through the 96 Olympics with a hernia, and his college years were spent going through officer cadet training at the Naval Academy, in addition to basketball practices, as opposed to the man's way of doing it of being a privileged star athlete at a basketball college.


You aren't much of a Spur fan if you call David Robinson soft...and the fact that you feel compelled to say that as he is being inducted in the HOF pretty much brands you as the absolute stupidest, and worst, that the Spurfans have to offer.


While he was playing through a hernia, representing his country and shortening his career in the process, you were probably sitting on your fat ing ass in a recliner calling him soft.

Pathetic.


He lead the NBA in FTA and Dunks multiple times. And he was one of the elite finishers in those categories pretty much every year of his career. More than Duncan or Hakeem...if that is your measure of softness, you just kicked your own ass if you are Tim Duncan fan.

Instead of acting like you have any kind of statistical proof he was soft(and you do not), nor is there anything in his injury history that bears out that he was, why don't you just admit you don't like David Robinson and leave it at that...

It's what a non-soft "man" would do.

[JamStone]

There is enough evidence to conclude Wilt was a better jumper, there's some evidence he might have been faster, but it's not borne out in any video evidence...and there's nothing to prove he was stronger, or more coordinated.


And David's FT shooting had nothing to do with skill...David never worked on his game, especially hit FT shooting.

Wilt was just about the worst FT shooter in history and he took more of them than just about anyone.

He sucked at it...and it is coordination.


And it was a weakness in his game that could be easily exploited...David had no such weaknesses.

David's only weakness was being doubled and tripled team, which is the exact same weakness Wilt had. And it's not really a weakness either....

So now David Robinson never worked on his game. Apparently he never practiced shooting free throws according to you. Lol. Who's telling folk tales now?

You might be the first person to ever suggest free throw shooting isn't a skill. I can't believe all the athletic ability oozing out of Steve Kerr when he would shoot free throws.

David's weakness when it comes to athleticism was having a weak lower core/base compared to his upper body. That's part of the reason he was never a consistently good back-to-the-basket, low post scorer. He didn't quite have the lower body strength to back down defenders in the low post. It was an exploitable weakness. But it was also somewhat an advantage in that it was partly a reason why he could get up and down the court well for a big man, had better lateral quickness than many big men, and could gymnastic feats like walk on his hands. If he had Shaq's ass, he likely wouldn't be able to walk on his hands, surely not the length of the court.

[Agloco]

He was never too far off. When talking about the 67 76ers he said "we were so good I think he started at 41-3." in reality they started at 40-4. In his first book he said he averaged something like 50 points in high school when he really averaged around 48. Even his 20,000 women claim was not far off when people close to him were asked.

He literally had to change women more than he changed underwear during the course of his lifetime. That's more than one woman per day from age 15 to 63. I'm thinking he counted most women more than once.

"I had 20000 sexual encounters." would be more believable.

[polandprzem]

"Was capable of doing" as in "could do."

That was your initial point. That's what it means.

Are suggesting Wilt was not capable of catching an alley oop and finishing with a vengeance over a defender? Or are you merely saying that you haven't seen Wilt do that in the videos you've watched of him.

So you like to qualify eras by sayind Dave played with better athletes, but you don't like qualifying eras when it comes to gauging Wilt's athleticism.

And, no, I never said nor do I believe that the 60s had better athletes than the 90s. I don't believe that at all.

The former would be an inaccurate contention. The latter would not be applicable to your point that Wilt wasn't capable of doing this one thing you stated David was capable of.

We might be on the same side I don't know.
Once again I will try to put my points in the argument.

Was Wilt able or not with those alleyups we don't know, simply because he was not doing that on the basketball curt during games and mostly because there were basiccly no alleyups then. Alleyup came to play in late 70s if I remember correctly.
Wilt was not doing such things. Not a one highlight with him is impressive. Not even a one play if you ask me.
He might be better athlete as a whole but not better athlete on basketball court.
So what that wilt was running fast at 100yrds as he was unable to use it on the court?
Damn when you can outbenchpress everybody it doesn't mean you can hold off other players down low when he is backing you.

One thing we don't know. How good would Wilt be if he was born 20 or 30 years later? How much dominant he would be in the leauge with those (nowdays) rules and all 'taking care of a player' things (like science, nutrition, snickers, docs ...)

All I know is that I haven't seen anybody having that skillset on the court like David.


For the record also I do not like such converstaions because, there are too many aspects that can be thown and too many people judge those aspects differently, plus you've got other eras other compe ion and so on and so on. It's like making a list of top10. Never suits you. And there is never a winner.

[ambchang]

So you are saying Wilt not playing at a time when alleyoops weren't done in play is a knock against him?

Almost any NBA center can catch and flush and flush a dunk, Jerome James can do it, doesn't make him particularly athletic. But if you are using that as a gauge, James > Wilt in athleticism, which is just absolutely stupid.

[ambchang]

Interesting that no one has mentioned how soft DROB was. He really didn't create fear in his opponents by taking it to the hoop with authority all that much. Very seldom did he get hyped enough to really slam one down.

He preferred to take soft jumpters from outside a lot of the time, even when the lane was open to such a fast mobile player. I used to cuss him all the time for not causing more fouls from his defender. He should have led the league in foul shots every year.

This post just wreaks of ignorance.

Robinson led the league in dunks.

Robinson led the league in rebounds.

Robinson led the league in FTA.

Robinson led the league in FTM.

You know why he did? Because he played in the paint on offense and defense, getting hacked over and over again.

Before his back was shot, he was either #1 or #2 in FTA and FTM every single year he played a full season. He even finished #4 the year he played only 68 games.

You are also talking about a guy who guarded Shaq one on one in the playoffs with a hernia and a hip pointer. All the while the supposedly toughest player in the game, Shaq, would take chunks of games off with an ingrown toenail.

[polandprzem]

So you are saying Wilt not playing at a time when alleyoops weren't done in play is a knock against him?

Nope

Just saying he was not doing it on the court while playing ball. He had great abilieties to do it but he wasn't doing it. That is my point.

Almost any NBA center can catch and flush and flush a dunk, Jerome James can do it, doesn't make him particularly athletic. But if you are using that as a gauge, James > Wilt in athleticism, which is just absolutely stupid.

Why am I stupid?

[ambchang]

Nope

Just saying he was not doing it on the court while playing ball. He had great abilieties to do it but he wasn't doing it. That is my point.

So him not doing it would lead to what in the argument of comparing the athleticism of Wilt and Robinson?

Why am I stupid?

Did you say Jerome James is more athletic than Wilt?

[polandprzem]

So him not doing it would lead to what in the argument of comparing the athleticism of Wilt and Robinson?

It means that he was not doing the things Dave was doing on the court, athleticly.

Did you say Jerome James is more athletic than Wilt?

Which answer will provide you to say I'm stupid ?

[Nathan Explosion]

Also here is a video filmed in the late 80s, where Jerry West, Paul Arizin and Billy Cunningham.

If you still have doubts here is another video.



I know there are not many videos, but I have plenty of books and there are tons of interviews that talk about how athletic Wilt was.

Phila, we have provided some sound evidence to back up Wilt's accomplishments, but the ignorant masses just don't see it. If being a high jump champion, all world basketball player, best volleyball player on the planet in his late 30s, and dominating Magic in his mid-40s isn't enough to convince some of these people, I doubt anything will.

I love DRob about as much as anyone on the board. The age where I was able to watch a game and understand what was going was the same time as DRob's rookie season, so you can say that I've been hooked from day one.

Having said that, to say that DRob was more athletic than Wilt reeks of homerism, ignorance, or downright stupidity plain and simple.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

[polandprzem]

[ohmwrecker]

This is starting to get a little annoying. You guys should go out on a date or something.

[Brazil]

Also here is a video filmed in the late 80s, where Jerry West, Paul Arizin and Billy Cunningham.

If you still have doubts here is another video.



I know there are not many videos, but I have plenty of books and there are tons of interviews that talk about how athletic Wilt was.

Thanks Phila for sharing these vids ! I recognize I'm not a big expert on 60's BB and I appreciate your comments on the players of this era.

Just for my curiosity I'm sure you already stated that but in the greatest list where do you consider Wilt ?

[Brazil]

This is starting to get a little annoying. You guys should go out on a date or something.

I think it's an interesting thread, I'm learning stuff. Do you prefer the 2009 Greek NT threads ?

[polandprzem]

Which part do you disagree with?

I disagree with the part that you think I can disagree with any Wilt highlight or interview

[mathbzh]

Thanks Phila for your do ented posts.
I must admit I don't know much about Wilt and how athletic he was.
I don't even really know how athletic D-Rob really was. I watched the Spurs in the 90s but I grew up in France and didn't know David could walk on his hands...

On Wikipedia (I know it is not a reliable source but it is the only one I have) it is reported that:

during the physical tests that the Academy gives all incoming plebes he scored higher in gymnastics than anyone in his class. This was even more impressive due to his height: 6 ft 7 in (2.01 m) at the time.

If it is true, it is very impressive. Do you think Wilt could have done anything similar?
Wilt was stronger, he may have been faster and a better jumper, but I guess he was not as coordinated and flexible as David.

[ambchang]

It means that he was not doing the things Dave was doing on the court, athleticly.

Wilt wasn't doing what Jerome James was doing on the court athletically either. You provided the explanation for why that happened, and it was simply because alley-oops were not being used during the days Wilt was playing.

Which answer will provide you to say I'm stupid ?

Yes would. Because saying Jerome James is more athletic than Wilt Chamberlain would be quite stupid.

[kingmalaki]

Do you think the argument could be made that there is now much more skilled players at the guard position, which is making centers that might have been viewed as dominant less so, because the game has become so much more focused on the perimeter? I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just throwing some conjecture out there that the league is insanely deep with 6'5-6'7 guards that have much more ability to get into the lane than at any other point in NBA history, so centers might have lost value as the game increases in speed and shifts offensively to a more open offense.

No, not at all. Dominant centers are still seen as a major focal point in this league and they still have tremendous value. Look at all the success teams have had this decade around Shaq, Duncan...and even Howard just got to the Finals. Pivots are still being drafted higher than potential stud wings as well (see Oden vs Durant). The pivots today just suck...that's all....

[kingmalaki]

This post is going to sound like a "hating" one, but I swear that it's not. With all of Robinson's athletic gifts, why was he never able to develop a trustworthy post game? He was still an elite scorer but with all those gifts I was always surprised that he wasn't better on the box.

[ambchang]

athleticism has nothing to do with a post game.
McHale was great in the post, I wouldn't call him overly athletic.
Stromile Swift was very athletic, and yet he doesn't have much of a post move.

Robinson's athleticism gives him unusual speed for a man of his size, the best way for him to utilize it is to face up and blow past his man for a dunk/layup.

[kingmalaki]

This post just wreaks of ignorance.

Robinson led the league in dunks.

Robinson led the league in rebounds.

Robinson led the league in FTA.

Robinson led the league in FTM.

You know why he did? Because he played in the paint on offense and defense, getting hacked over and over again.

Before his back was shot, he was either #1 or #2 in FTA and FTM every single year he played a full season. He even finished #4 the year he played only 68 games.

You are also talking about a guy who guarded Shaq one on one in the playoffs with a hernia and a hip pointer. All the while the supposedly toughest player in the game, Shaq, would take chunks of games off with an ingrown toenail.

When he mentioned that he was "soft", I think he was referring to his style of play. For all of Robinson's physical advantages, he still preferred to play outside of the paint and shoot jumpers (I believe the poster alluded to hating this when he watched him), as opposed to banging down low with folks (David never really had a great low-post game). The difference between Shaq and Kobe offensively, and Robinson and T-Mac is that the first pair seem to initiate contact more...while the latter shied away from it more. No better way to explain a center who you swear is the most athletic ever living on the perimeter.

If I had a live simulator of Robinson and he was isod on someone and needed a bucket, I see him deciding to shoot a jumper rather then go down low, even though he had all of these physical advantages that folks here are mentioning.

[ohmwrecker]

I think it's an interesting thread, I'm learning stuff. Do you prefer the 2009 Greek NT threads ?

No! Sorry, you're right . . . carry on.