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  1. #626
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    (post #602)
    Anyone who watches the video can see that's not the case.
    I won't watch videos when you will not return the courtesy.

    Until you watch the videos I post, I must assume your objective here is dishonest on its face.

    I will also go back to my earlier, unanswered question:

    Is there any part of the evidence presented by websites claiming that "the moon landings were faked" that you do NOT accept as true?

  2. #627
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    Is there any part of the evidence presented by websites claiming that "the moon landings were faked" that you do NOT accept as true?
    There are several known mistakes that have been made by hoax-believers. One of them is correctly pointed out in this MythBusters video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAcXBT-GZCo

    Showing that to be a mistake doesn't disprove the hoax theory though as there's still the issue of whether the light source was a studio light, or the sun.

    You people seem to be between a rock and a hard place with the issue of the Chinese space walk. This is very relevant to the Apollo issue as NASA's credibility is on the line. Only a disinfo agent would tap dance around this issue instead of addressing it.
    http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums...pic.php?t=1222

    There's really not much sense in my continuing here; all the evidence is in the first post of this thread and it's so clear that the only way you shills can sway public opinion is to keep people from seeing it. You've said some pretty lame things (such as post #369 on page 15) in this thread and nobody with any brains is going to take you seriously now. I'll check back from time to time to see if there are any serious posters.

  3. #628
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    I'll check back from time to time to see if there are any serious posters.
    "Serious," signifying "swayed by my failure to present credible evidence or reasonable argumentation."

  4. #629
    Knowledge Is Hassle Fpoonsie's Avatar
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    I think this thread is why she left you, mouse.

    Well, this AND the tiny .

  5. #630
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    I think this thread is why she left you, mouse.

    Well, this AND the tiny .
    ouch, man.

  6. #631
    Believe. U.S.A.F.'s Avatar
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    I think this thread is why she left you, mouse.

    Well, this AND the tiny .

    Unlike you At least mouse had a girlfriend.

  7. #632
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    There are several known mistakes that have been made by hoax-believers. One of them is correctly pointed out in this MythBusters video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAcXBT-GZCo

    Showing that to be a mistake doesn't disprove the hoax theory though as there's still the issue of whether the light source was a studio light, or the sun.

    You people seem to be between a rock and a hard place with the issue of the Chinese space walk. This is very relevant to the Apollo issue as NASA's credibility is on the line. Only a disinfo agent would tap dance around this issue instead of addressing it.
    http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums...pic.php?t=1222

    There's really not much sense in my continuing here; all the evidence is in the first post of this thread and it's so clear that the only way you shills can sway public opinion is to keep people from seeing it. You've said some pretty lame things (such as post #369 on page 15) in this thread and nobody with any brains is going to take you seriously now. I'll check back from time to time to see if there are any serious posters.
    Interesting set of statements.

    Q. "Is there any part of the evidence presented by websites claiming that "the moon landings were faked" that you do NOT accept as true?"

    A. There are several known mistakes that have been made by hoax-believers.

    When moon hoax believers say things provably false, they are still to be believed.


    "But look at the faked Chinese moon walk that NASA said was real."

    When NASA says something allegedly false then their entire credibility must be questioned.

    Note that I am in no way conceding that the Chinese space footage was faked. I am quite sure it is real, and that the Chinese are indeed taking their place among space-faring nations.

    You cannot apply different sets of standards and retain credibility.

    Lastly I would note that post #369 was not mine.

    Let me then ask the next question:

    "If beleivers of a moon landing hoax/coverup say/advance things that are provably wrong, should we then subject their claims to more or less scrutiny?"
    Last edited by RandomGuy; 02-05-2010 at 12:57 PM.

  8. #633
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    You people seem to be between a rock and a hard place...
    Speaking of rocks:

    You claim that the HUNDREDS OF POUNDS of rocks brought back the Apollo astronauts are all faked.

    I will make the counter claim that there is NO WAY to fake the rocks, let alone hundreds of pounds of them, in such a way that they could fool tens of thousands of scientists for decades.


    Apollo astronauts brought 841 pounds of Moon rock home to Earth.

    "Moon rocks are absolutely unique," says Dr. David McKay, Chief Scientist for Planetary Science and Exploration at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC). McKay is a member of the group that oversees the Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility at JSC where most of the Moon rocks are stored. "They differ from Earth rocks in many respects," he added.

    "For example," explains Dr. Marc Norman, a lunar geologist at the University of Tasmania, "lunar samples have almost no water trapped in their crystal structure, and common substances such as clay minerals that are ubiquitous on Earth are totally absent in Moon rocks."

    "We've found particles of fresh glass in Moon rocks that were produced by explosive volcanic activity and by meteorite impacts over 3 billion years ago," added Norman. "The presence of water on Earth rapidly breaks down such volcanic glass in only a few million years. These rocks must have come from the Moon!"

    Right: A glass spherule (about 0.6 mm in diameter) produced by a meteorite impact into lunar soil. Features on the surface are glass splashes, welded mineral fragments, and microcraters produced by space weathering processes at the surface of the moon. SEM image by D. S. McKay (NASA Photo S71-48109).
    [img] http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/im...mpactglass.jpg [/img]

    Fortunately not all of the evidence needs a degree in chemistry or geology to appreciate. An average person holding a Moon rock in his or her hand can plainly see that the specimen came from another world.

    "Apollo moon rocks are peppered with tiny craters from meteoroid impacts," explains McKay. This could only happen to rocks from a planet with little or no atmosphere... like the Moon.

    Meteoroids are nearly-microscopic specks of comet dust that fly through space at speeds often exceeding 50,000 mph -- ten times faster than a speeding bullet. They pack a considerable punch, but they're also extremely fragile. Meteoroids that strike Earth's atmosphere disintegrate in the rarefied air above our stratosphere. (Every now and then on a dark night you can see one -- they're called meteors.) But the Moon doesn't have an atmosphere to protect it. The tiny space bullets can plow directly into Moon rocks, forming miniature and unmistakable craters.

    "There are plenty of museums, including the Smithsonian and others, where members of the public can touch and examine rocks from the Moon," says McKay. "You can see the little meteoroid craters for yourself."

    Right: Nick-named "Big Muley," this 11.7 kg Moon rock was the largest returned to Earth by Apollo astronauts.

    One side of Big Muley was peppered with meteoroid "zap pits." Below right: A close-up view of 1 mm diameter zap pits shows tiny craters lined with black glass surrounded by a white halo of shocked rock.
    [more]

    Just as meteoroids constantly bombard the Moon so do cosmic rays, and they leave their fingerprints on Moon rocks, too. "There are isotopes in Moon rocks, isotopes we don't normally find on Earth, that were created by nuclear reactions with the highest-energy cosmic rays," says McKay. Earth is spared from such radiation by our protective atmosphere and magnetosphere.

    Even if scientists wanted to make something like a Moon rock by, say, bombarding an Earth rock with high energy atomic nuclei, they couldn't. Earth's most powerful particle accelerators can't energize particles to match the most potent cosmic rays, which are themselves accelerated in supernova blastwaves and in the violent cores of galaxies.

    Indeed, says McKay, faking a Moon rock well enough to hoodwink an international army of scientists might be more difficult than the Manhattan Project. "It would be easier to just go to the Moon and get one," he quipped.

    And therein lies an original idea: Did NASA go to the Moon to collect props for a staged Moon landing? It's an interesting twist on the conspiracy theory that TV producers might consider for their next episode of the Moon Hoax.

    "I have here in my office a 10-foot high stack of scientific books full of papers about the Apollo Moon rocks," added McKay. "Researchers in thousands of labs have examined Apollo Moon samples -- not a single paper challenges their origin! And these aren't all NASA employees, either. We've loaned samples to scientists in dozens of countries [who have no reason to cooperate in any hoax]."

    Even Dr. Robert Park, Director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society and a noted critic of NASA's human space flight program, agrees with the space agency on this issue. "The body of physical evidence that humans did walk on the Moon is simply overwhelming."
    -----------------------------


    Here is the body of work done on the NASA samples:

    http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/compendium.cfm

    So now, all you need to to do prove me and NASA wrong is to get a rock and fake it to where it could fool a neutral scientist.

    Given that this would take building a particle accelerator bigger than anything mankind has ever contructed before, you had better get cracking.

    Note this is not "proving a negative". All you have to do is prove that the rocks could be faked by doing it.

    AND please stop the ad hominem. Either you can address the points made in a logical and scientific manner, or you can't. If you do the "but they can't be believed so I will simply dismiss it all outright" schtick again, you might as well wave the white flag now.

  9. #634
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    So, in addition to the estimated 1500 or so people it would take to actively perpetrate the film and acting part of the hoax, we would have to add all the scientists within NASA and outside of it, who have studied the rocks and none have noted any anomolies inconsistent with what one would expect from real moon rocks.

    Previously my estimation of the number of people it would take to fake the landings only involved the studio technicians and NASA mission controllers and so forth.

    Now we must not only add the people it would have taken to fake the rocks, some 841 pounds. These rocks would ahve to be sucked dry of all water, melted and cooled in total vaccuum, zapped with mircometeors, then exposed to massive amounts of radiation in a supercollider more powerful than anything mankind has ever built. No mean feat.

    Let's be conservative, and say 10-50 people working for years, along with a crew able to operate and configure the particle accelerators and bombard the hundreds of pounds of materials. Note there were no supercolliders in existance at the time, they would have had to have done this with rather primitive linear particle accelerators of the day.

    Add to these people the thousands of people doing research on the rocks, so our list of those "in on it" has now swelled to well over 10,000. And yet none of them has miraculously come forward in a fit of conscience to reveal the hoax.


    Any one of them would be instantly famous for revealing the hoax, some 40 years on.

    All Cosmored now has to do is prove that the primitive linear accelerators of the day could produce the right kinds of radiation to create isotopes in the samples that are impossible on earth.

  10. #635
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    We must then bear in mind that the obvious hoax beleiver response to why NONE of these THOUSANDS of people have come forward is that they were afraid for their lives, even on their deathbeds. And if any of them did make a deathbed confession THAT was covered up too.

    How many people would it take to keep track of these tens of thousands of people? To cover up the deathbed confessions? To threaten them should any of them talk, or to simply kill them?

    You would have to geometrically increase the size of your monitoring force, and your goon squads.

    And we would then have another pool of people who might spill the beans in a fit of conscience.

    "I monitored the people who hoaxed the moon landing for decades, and killed one or two of them when they threatened to talk, this is MY deathbed confession, proving that there was a coverup."

    If Cosmored can come up with just ONE such confession, that would go a long way towards proving his case.

  11. #636
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    In short the things that would be required to "hoax" the multiple moon landings:

    Ten thousand + people willing to:
    1) fake the footage,
    2) fake the photos
    3) act out the hoax,
    4) fake the phsyical evidence including the rocks,
    5) look the other way,
    6) enough people to monitor everybody involved in parts 1-5 monitor THEM,
    7) people to coverup any slip ups from ANYBODY involved

    and

    Primitive particle accelerators that can do things that massive circular supercolliders today can't do.

    Let me know if I missed something Cosmored. This is your theory, I am just attempting to understand what it is you are saying.

  12. #637
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Why would China have to fake a space walk anyway?

    Even the douchiest conspiracy nutters concede manned earth orbits can and have happened.

  13. #638
    Believe. Alex Jones's Avatar
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    Even the douchiest conspiracy nutters concede
    That kind of weak minded reply is why serous debates can't be achieved in this topic.

  14. #639
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    That kind of weak minded reply is why serous debates can't be achieved in this topic.
    Why? No one was calling y conspiracy nutter specifically.

    Do you believe man has indeed performed EVAs in space?

    Yes or no.

  15. #640
    Believe. Alex Jones's Avatar
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    Why? No one was calling y conspiracy nutter specifically.

    Do you believe man has indeed performed EVAs in space?

    Yes or no.

    Lets check out my options here.
    A: Agree with Chump and get treated like an adult with the right to speak my mind.

    B: Disagree with Chump and be labeled a y conspiracy nutter.


    Ummmm ........let me think awhile about it.

  16. #641
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Lets check out my options here.
    A: Agree with Chump and get treated like an adult with the right to speak my mind.

    B: Disagree with Chump and be labeled a y conspiracy nutter.


    Ummmm ........let me think awhile about it.
    You have the absolute right to speak your mind and be a y conspiracy nutter.

    You are also free to be a pussy and afraid of the judgment of anonymous internets posters.

    Looks like you are choosing door #3.

  17. #642
    Believe. Alex Jones's Avatar
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    It must feel good to know your right and your smarter than anyone else, your so pure, You have the best comebacks, you post the best youtube links, your the master of all debate topics. It must be the greatest single most feeling on this planet to be able call yourself ChumpDumper.

    In fact I strongly feel the www should start over and no one in this country is allowed to post any topic that is not legit to your standards. In fact Google should let you take charge so we can live in the word of one thought one purpose one goal, to worship the messiah.

    in Chump we trust.

    Amen

  18. #643
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It must feel good to know your right and your smarter than anyone else, your so pure, You have the best comebacks, you post the best youtube links, your the master of all debate topics. It must be the greatest single most feeling on this planet to be able call yourself ChumpDumper.
    It's not so much that I'm right as it is the nutters who make the YouTubes you pimp are completely full of .

    In fact I strongly feel the www should start over and no one in this country is allowed to post any topic that is not legit to your standards. In fact Google should let you take charge so we can live in the word of one thought one purpose one goal, to worship the messiah.

    in Chump we trust.

    Amen
    Ah, the poor mouse persecution complex is back. No one has stopped, is stopping or will stop you from posting YouTubes made by nutters, so quit whining about it.

    Sorry about your penis.

  19. #644
    Believe. Alex Jones's Avatar
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    Sorry about your penis.
    And I am sorry about your ass.

    Can we still be friends?

  20. #645
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    And I am sorry about your ass.
    There's nothing wrong with my ass. You posted about the tininess of your penis.

    Can we still be friends?
    We never were friends.

  21. #646
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    It must feel good to know your right and your smarter than anyone else, your so pure, You have the best comebacks, you post the best youtube links, your the master of all debate topics. It must be the greatest single most feeling on this planet to be able call yourself ChumpDumper.
    it must be the greatest feeling to be able to call yourself mouse.....and then alex jones......and then 911......and then last comic standing.......and then blue jew.....

  22. #647
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    We never were friends.
    we don't have to be friends, we are brothers.



    after reading this topic .................


    Chump 3


    mouse 6


    undecided 1

  23. #648
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    The others had nothing to do with the Apollo moon landings.

  24. #649
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    The others had nothing to do with the Apollo moon landings.

    How you figure? I have presented more than enough evidence to prove NASA lied and your not going to give me any credit or try and be fair?

    This is precisely the reason you, RandomLie and Blake can't have a real debate you guys are to bias.

    Chump 2

    Me 4

    others 3

    undecided 1

  25. #650
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    How you figure? I have presented more than enough evidence to prove NASA lied and your not going to give me any credit or try and be fair?
    I debunked them all, one by one.

    I'm sure you didn't read or watch anything I posted, so I don't expect you to realize just how thoroughly you were thrashed.

    This is precisely the reason you, RandomLie and Blake can't have a real debate you guys are to bias.
    Extremely biased towards being right.

    Sorry.

    Chump 2

    Me 4

    others 3

    undecided 1
    Me 9

    You 0

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