<Insert Big Trade Proposal Here>

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Haven't read through the entire thread, but here's one:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yz4t3sb

Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison for Jefferson, Finley, Mahinmi, and probably a first round pick.

Only reason the Wizards would do this is if they're in complete rebuilding/saving money mode. Would save them ~$2 million for the rest of this year, $8 mil next year, and $15 mil in 2011-12.

Damn, that would be a nice boost.

[TD 21]

Of course getting a legitimate #2 big would benefit this team. And if you're talking solely improvement and just giving the team a better chance at a longer more respectable playoff-run, I'd have no argument. But when you're talking Championship, there's just too many issues for them to be shored up with one player (they've just got a bit of an ill-fitted team to go about business as usual).

They just don't have the intelligence, grit and savvy in their supporting cast/role players to make the heady play, rotation or exhibit the proper discipline to carry out a game plan on both ends (when Pop alludes to effort not being a problem, it can be one of two things: They're having mental breakdowns (which can be lack of discipline or intelligence) or they're not physically capable.

While discipline can theoretically be corrected, I'm afraid it's not an either or; the perimeter D lacks size and/or experience in their best defenders and the interior D is obviously lacking. RJ and Tony playing heavy minutes won't help with your defense, either (for different reasons, as RJ is prone to the mental error and lacks the lateral quickness and Tony's just never been more than passable, really, when healthy; which he's not completely)

My argument has never been to say this team was crap; they're not. It's just been my belief from Day-1 that they were a flawed team that was in need of a move, possibly two, to get to a Championship level. Sadly, I had given them the benefit of a doubt because of past greatness, and past accomplishments.

Following this team so closely for so long, I became accustomed to thinking that it was all about them and what they did (it really used to be). But that time has gone. You can't simply say that if all goes to plan, they'll be where they want to be; they're just not that team anymore. They know it, the opposition knows it and now the fans are slowly starting to acknowledge it. All you have to do is look how these middle-of-the-pack teams play the Spurs nowadays; there's no fear-factor or mental-edge preventing them from dropping the Spurs.

The Spurs need more than just a tangible piece, imo; it's the intangibles they've lost that have brought them back to the pack.

You're right and realistically, they're not ever going to get that back during the Duncan era. That's all gone...but that doesn't mean they can't win a different way; they can. I keep going back to it, but if they pulled off that Iguodala/Dalembert trade, that theoretically solves the two biggest needs, set's them up better for the future and gives them a more clearly defined rotation. Iguodala is a younger, better version of Jefferson. Essentially, he's what the Spurs and the fans hoped Jefferson would be for this team. Assuming it happens (I know, it's a long shot), are you telling me (maybe they don't pull it all together this year, but either this year or next year) this isn't theoretically a legit contender?

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Iguodala, C- Dalembert, SG- Finley, PG- Parker

Bench (rotation): SG- Ginobili, PF- McDyess, PG/SG- Hill

Bench (out of rotation): PF- Blair, SG- Bogans, C- Ratliff, SG/SF- Hairston

Inactive: C/PF- Mahinmi

This would be the likely playoff rotation. For the remainder of the regular season, Blair and Bogans could continue to be in the rotation, so as to limit the workload of the top eight.

[Blackjack]

You're right and realistically, they're not ever going to get that back during the Duncan era. That's all gone...but that doesn't mean they can't win a different way; they can. I keep going back to it, but if they pulled off that Iguodala/Dalembert trade, that theoretically solves the two biggest needs, set's them up better for the future and gives them a more clearly defined rotation. Iguodala is a younger, better version of Jefferson. Essentially, he's what the Spurs and the fans hoped Jefferson would be for this team. Assuming it happens (I know, it's a long shot), are you telling me (maybe they don't pull it all together this year, but either this year or next year) this isn't theoretically a legit contender?

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Iguodala, C- Dalembert, SG- Finley, PG- Parker

Bench (rotation): SG- Ginobili, PF- McDyess, PG/SG- Hill

Bench (out of rotation): PF- Blair, SG- Bogans, C- Ratliff, SG/SF- Hairston

Inactive: C/PF- Mahinmi

This would be the likely playoff rotation. For the remainder of the regular season, Blair and Bogans could continue to be in the rotation, so as to limit the workload of the top eight.

I actually alluded to that being their best option earlier in the thread and you, being one of the friends I've discussed it with, obviously know I'd be in favor of it (even if means next year is when it bears the real fruit).

[TD 21]

I actually alluded to that being their best option earlier in the thread and you, being one of the friends I've discussed it with, obviously know I'd be in favor of it (even if means next year is when it bears the real fruit).

I know we've discussed it and you'd be in favor of it, but you don't seem convinced that this hypothetical trade or any realistic transactions for that matter will get this team back to being a certified championship contender. Am I wrong?

[rascal]

But you don't know if an injured (back then) Ginobili was the right trade. For all we know, they could have been asking for Tony. Or wanted the Spurs to also absorb a terrible contract like Kaman's. If it was such a slamdunk trade for the Clips, well, we still have the assets to do it, and I don't see them making Marcus available.

I look at the Clips and I see they already have the very talented, injury prone guard in BDiddy. They have a promising guy in Gordon. Now they have Kaman with a bad contract which I assume it's gonna be the first guy they want to get rid of when Griffin plays next season. Camby has a great contract. I don't see why they would want to move him at all.

They would not be trading Camby and Kaman. That doesn't make any sense for them to move Both those guys. Now, since Blake is out for the year it is harder to get Camby but last summer after they drafted Blake that was the time to make a strong play for Camby.

[Blackjack]

I think it's doubtful for this year to win a Championship by adding the needed pieces and ingredients; not impossible, but highly unlikely.

But if you can get AI and Dalembert for the type of package you suggest, you do it in a heartbeat (maybe they don't win it all this year, but you build for next year with the time they have left and maybe even get and extended playoff-run that could propel a team the following year).

I haven't stuck a fork in this team and called a close to the Duncan era. But, realistically, I know that it's going to take some bold action and a considerable amount of good fortune; an acquisition like you've mentioned, could very well cover both fronts.

[MaNu4Tres]

But if you can get AI and Dalembert for the type of package you suggest, you do it in a heartbeat (maybe they don't win it all this year, but you build for next year with the time they have left and maybe even get and extended playoff-run that could propel a team the following year).

I agree.

RJ/ Bonner/ Finley or Mason for Iggy and Dalembert works and would improve two needs.

[024]

Philly's going to dump their 26 year old go-to guy (who averaged 21, 6, and 7 in the playoffs) . . . so they can build around Elton Brand's cap-killing contract and Tiago Splitter?

it's not like philly will ever get rid of elton brand's cap killing contract. iguodala is the only cap killer they can move. they've already signaled that iguodala can be had for the right price. this team is not going anywhere this year or the next and already rank at the bottom in attendance. they have nothing to lose. iguodala isn't a franchise player nor a good first option. he is a second option and i'm not even sure if he can be an all star yet. i can think of 7-8 guards that are better than him currently and 3-4 that will surely surpass him in a few years.

sixers are dangling iguodala to get rid of dalmebert as well, saving them $12 million next year. jefferson won't be a bad option for the next two years when they are in rebuilding mode to score some points and wow the crowd with his dunks. after next year, they can start rebuilding. add in a first round pick and splitter, it might be something worth having. splitter and marc gasol were considered the two best young centers outside the nba. if philly thinks splitter can be anything close to gasol, then it would get them pretty excited. maybe they want blair instead of splitter. for iggy and dalembert, i'll go for the trade.

for the spurs, this would pretty much be the last gamble they can take. iguodala's 5 year contract would make or break this team. for the sixers, they have been teetering between the playoffs and the lottery the last few years, unable to make real progress in the playoffs and unable to secure a talented player because they didn't suck enough to acquire a high draft pick. after the elton brand disaster, they need to start rebuilding.

[objective]

there has to be so much better deals for Iguodala . . .

I don't see how it's even reasonable that the Spurs could get him with Jefferson and whatever other throw-ins (Splitter, Mahinmi, Blair).

If I'm wrong, I'll change my screen-name to "I was wrong about Iggy"

[lennyalderette]

if we traded tony for a solid 7fter and a back up poinguard we would win alot more games. i say we trade parker for an upcoming dominant big. our best bet

[lennyalderette]

parker and some of our scrubs but, believe me a team will definitely want parker

[TJastal]

if we traded tony for a solid 7fter and a back up poinguard we would win alot more games. i say we trade parker for an upcoming dominant big. our best bet

Parker and <insert expiring contract here> for Biedrins and Stephen Jackson, and a backup point guard. Oh wait, too late for that...

[ForeignFan]

For those who want to trade vs first round picks, any clue how good will the next draft be?
Apart from Tim, Blair and Hill, probably everyone else could move, though Manu can still be excellent (in limited minutes) and I assume Parker should be able to get back to 2009's shape (in particular if he does not play this summer with French NT).

[TJastal]

Trading Parker now wouldn't be wise. Everyone is aware of his foot problems and your not going to get much in return. Maybe next year he'll be healthy again, but its becoming clear that this season he's not the same player that he has been and the spurs are stuck with him and the realization that another year of Duncan's few remaining is again circling the drain.

[Big P]

Travis Outlaw from Portland is on the block, we could definitly use someone like him.

[rascal]

Travis Outlaw from Portland is on the block, we could definitly use someone like him.

Outlaw will not put the spurs over the top.

[baseline bum]

Outlaw will not put the spurs over the top.

It'd be a of a first step. As long as Parker's speed and lift is gone, there isn't a trade short of Parker for Chris Paul that would put the Spurs over the top.

[HarlemHeat37]

Travis Outlaw plays worse D than Jefferson..he also absolutely needs the ball in his hands to be effective, which is a problem we already have with Jefferson..what's the point of adding him?..

[ace3g]

and he is coming off injury for the Blazers

[dbestpro]

Trade for Haywood and tell Pop he is a shooting guard so Pop will play him thinking its small ball.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

[Big P]

Outlaw will not put the spurs over the top.

And armed with Mason, Finley & bonner, who do you see us getting that would put us "over the top". Sorry thats a weak statement, the RJ trade was supposed to put us over the top, if he isn't going to put us "over the top", no one is, I'm not really sure who you are expecting the Spurs to get..you are setting yourself up to be very disappointed.

[outmap]

Parker and Dice for:
- Butler and Haywood of WAS.
- Wallace and Chandler of CHA.
- Granger and Foster of IND.
- Deng and Noah of CHI.
- Iguodala and Speights of PHI.
- Maggette and Biedrins of GSW.
- Stoudemire and Dudley of PHO.
- Martin and Thompson of SAC.
- Gay and Randolph of MEM.
- Wade and Beasley of MIA.
- Jefferson and Gomez of MIN.

[TimDunkem]

Parker and Dice for:
- Butler and Haywood of WAS.
- Wallace and Chandler of CHA.
- Granger and Foster of IND.
- Deng and Noah of CHI.
- Iguodala and Speights of PHI.
- Maggette and Biedrins of GSW.
- Stoudemire and Dudley of PHO.
- Martin and Thompson of SAC.
- Gay and Randolph of MEM.
- Wade and Beasley of MIA.
- Jefferson and Gomez of MIN.

All of those are horrible. Are you kidding?

[Chieflion]

All of those are horrible. Are you kidding?

I will agree it is mostly terrible for the other team, especially the one where we give up Parker for Wade and Dice for Beasley.