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I realize you're being facetious, but I really would; a deterrent is a deterrent (his defense on the perimeter ain't too shabby either).
Uh, you happen to be in this forum voicing an opinion too.
I realize you're being facetious, but I really would; a deterrent is a deterrent (his defense on the perimeter ain't too shabby either).
He'd help in regards to having a big to guard against the types of mobile, face-up four's and combo forwards that have killed the Spurs since Horry was still a useful player. However, he's too small to be an ideal compliment to Duncan. 6'8'' 215 means no chance he could effectively match-up with either Gasol or Bynum and ultimately, with any trade, that has to be the goal and the thought: Does this trade help the Spurs to better match-up with the Lakers front line?The Spurs have long had a desire to acquire Thomas (if you believe what's been reported over the last few years). And, personally, I'd love to see him on the Spurs.
People like to kill the guy for his supposed terrible BBIQ, but the guy's got a lot of talent that the Spurs could benefit from and the versatility defensively that should prevent Pop from going small (assuming he hasn't lost his mind; which is open for debate depending on whom you ask) If he can give anything close to what he gave the Bulls last year against the C's, he'd be a big help (pun not intended)
I'm afraid that I've made fun of Pushups too much to ever want to see him in a Spurs uniform.
Then again, I guess we finally warmed up to Robert Horry eventually.
He is stupid. When I watched him play against the Spurs, he fell for every single pump fake. Is he really that dumb? There are also some Bulls fans on RealGM that confirmed my thoughts on Tyrus. Sure, he is athletic and all. But he is a big bonehead and for a role player, he sure complains about a lot of things. When your ass is being sat becasue of a rookie like Taj Gibson, I am not sure whether he is really starting caliber or not.
I wouldnt mid tyrus thomas for ian and maybe finley and possibly going after raja bell for mason
See the playoffs.
6-8 was his height in college. He has grown about an inch and half since he turned pro. He stands a legit 6-10 in shoes.
I agree, but it's very possible that the Spurs won't be willing to take on Blatche to acquire Haywood, as they'd have to gut their three-point shooting and possibly left without the right assets left to address the deficiency.
Camby, imo, isn't moving; I'm not sure the Spurs have or are willing to give up what it'd take to acquire him, either.
So if those two are out of the equation, which you assume they would be if the Spurs went after Thomas, there's really not a better option than Tyrus for the front court (Duncan-Thomas against Gasol-Odom wouldn't be all that bad if the Spurs ended up getting that far. They'd just have to tread water during those minutes the Lakers trot out Gasol-Bynum).
They'd also still have a couple of trade assets in this particular scenario to bolster and tweak the roster for whatever package they could bring.
I'm not sure where you got this information from, but I don't buy it. I've seen him play many times and I'd be stunned if he were over 6'9'' in shoes. The reality is he's an undersized power forward.
Maybe Haywood or Camby move, maybe they don't. But bringing in a player who doesn't solve the Spurs primary front court need (length) doesn't make a ton of sense. Theoretically, Thomas helps against the Nuggets, Mavs, etc. But the road to the Finals in the West goes through the Lakers and Thomas just can't match-up with Gasol. On top of that, as you said, he has a low basketball IQ and is a malcontent.
I hope Manu is still a Spur and plays well against Memphis, so I get to see him play one more time.
I'm not sure where you got this information from, but I don't buy it. I've seen him play many times and I'd be stunned if he were over 6'9'' in shoes. The reality is he's an undersized power forward.
Deng is 6-9 and Thomas shows about an inch taller than Deng. Maybe its been a while since you've seen him play.
If Manu leaves, I leave.
Nah, I dunno, but for me Manu is the heart and the last remaining reminder of toughness other than Duncan. He puts it on the line, and he may not be 100% or the best he's ever been, but I'll take a hobbled Manu over any of the other trade bait options on the Spurs.
It hasn't. In fact, I just so happened to see his second to last game.
Actually, all I "voiced" was what Don said, but yes, I was aware of being a part of the equation. I am in the VAST minority here in that I don't think I know more than the professionals.
you are not a spur fan
We've talked enough for you to know my feelings on the team and their prospects moving forward, so my only premise is to make the team better and give them the best shot at a good run. Acquiring someone like Thomas (who, again, would only be brought aboard if the Spurs couldn't get a Camby or Haywood) would be a good get; only having to lose Mahinmi and Bonner makes it a no-brainer, imo.
They would still have a good amount of assets left to make another move and they'd be in better position to beat the teams you mentioned, in order to get a shot at the Lakers (that's all you can really hope for at this point).
As for the intelligence knock. I think we, as fans, have to be careful making wholesale judgments on perceptions like that. Do I think he's a basketball savant, of course not. But I'm also reminded of the beating Pietrus took last year and how that turned out (that guy was one of the most integral contributors an a team that went to the Finals). Tyrus has been bashed probably just as much in the past and his playoff performance (granted, in a much shorter stint) was almost as impressive.
Sometimes a player just doesn't fit the mold of what you have in your mind's eye but that shouldn't necessarily prevent you from being open to the possibility. Tyrus can alter shots, defend multiple positions, hit the boards at a decent clip and give you a little bit of offense with a face-up jumper and utilizing his athleticism off the ball; he's a good get and the price (in such a scenario) is right.
Manu and Timmy are Spurs, I won't ever back down from my fandom of their efforts and heart. There's been too many excuses put forth this season for outright piss poor execution, and I was down with all of them until the last few weeks of performances and player comments (especially that TP "baby sitting" article awhile back). It hasn't been Spurs basketball, and whatever it is I'm definitely not a fan of and if the other trade bait options are just gonna keep this team, my team, OUR team on the same route, I'd rather express my opinion than just be a push over and hope for the best.
Meanwhile, all you can do is troll instead of offer a counterpoint. So go on and troll me, Mr. 40K posts, like it's worth a .
I have trouble parting with anybody on this team besides RJ/Bonner. I dont want Blair or Hill to leave at all, and not Manu either. Manu and Amare would be unbelievable.
What worries me about Amar'e is that he was probably overrated before his knee problems, and is in my opinion definitely overrated now. The knock on him has always been his very poor defense, but his defenders always pointed to his age and the absence of a college experience to better learn the fundamentals of good D. That excuse just doesn't hold water anymore. He is still a terrible defender, and in my experience watching basketball it is extremely rare for a player who has been a terrible defender for five consecutive years to suddenly "get it" and start playing good D. The other thing that worries me about Amar'e is how little the Suns missed him when he sat out the 05-06 season. The year before, with Amar'e averaging 26 ppg, the Suns won 62 games, but without him for an entire season they still won 54. Can you imagine what the Spurs' record would've been in 05-06 if Duncan had sat out the entire season? I just attended a Suns game a week ago, and I can honestly say that he was even worse defensively than I thought he would be. His hands are always down, guys are constantly cutting behind him without him realizing it, and he looks most of the time to just be completely lost on the defensive end of the floor. I would even prefer a player like Sam Dalembert over Amar'e... at least he wants to play defense.
Why The Spurs Need To Deal For Amar’e
By: Andrew Perna
RealGM.com Writer
Dont know if this has been posted but its just one mans opinion and worth reading
http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces...eal_for_amare/
January 27, 2010 10:01 PM
You hear some pretty crazy stuff this time of year and I’m not just talking about lewd pictures of supersized centers and viral videos of sixty-year-old men singing about young men with their pants on the ground.
The NBA is no different, especially with the annual trade deadline less than a month away. For every ten rumors you read about on Wiretap, five or more very obviously carry no weight. If you’re lucky, maybe one or two will come to fruition.
A report from Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday morning claimed the San Antonio Spurs were having internal discussions about acquiring Amar’e Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns .
To be honest, I read the report and moved onto the next piece of noteworthy news. How much consideration can you give to any one team in dealing for Stoudemire when his name has been linked to a host of teams over the last week, including, but certainly not limited to, the Chicago Bulls , New Jersey Nets , Golden State Warriors and Miami Heat ?
Then, a few minutes later, the thought of Stoudemire in San Antonio began to sink in. There is a simple practice I like to employ when assessing trade rumors in sports, particularly in the NBA. I sit back and take a look at a potential deal from both sides, in this case that of the Suns and Spurs.
Suddenly, the thought of Stoudemire next to Tim Duncan started to look better and even clearer.
Of course, as in any deal, there are hurdles and roadblocks that will need to be dealt with prior to the Feb. 18 deadline. Before I get into why the Spurs need Stoudemire, let’s answer each of the below questions.
--Can San Antonio put together a package good enough for Phoenix to accept?
The Spurs are only 1 ˝ games ahead of the ninth seed in the Western Conference, but let’s assume they make the postseason. Barring a huge jump, they are looking at a pick in the 18-22 range in June’s NBA Draft. When you are talking about a player of Stoudemire’s caliber, a draft pick is likely to be involved.
In addition, Phoenix’s 2010 first rounder is going to Oklahoma City, which may place additional importance on getting one in return for their All-Star big man.
Of course, due to the rules of the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, a trade centered around a draft pick isn’t going to cut it. Stoudemire’s salary for this season, almost $16.4 million, won’t make a deal easy either. Luckily for the Spurs, they have a host of expiring contracts (which are like gold in today’s NBA).
We’ll get into Manu Ginobili below, but they can use the expiring deals of Roger Mason Jr. ($3.78M) Matt Bonner ($3.2M) Michael Finley ($2.5M) and Theo Ratliff ($1.3M) to pry Amar’e from Phoenix.
--Would they part with Ginobili in order to make the deal happen?
Ginobili’s expiring contract, which is worth $10.7 million, is more than half of Stoudemire’s deal, making it an important piece in any deal for the All-Star forward. The guard has been a staple in San Antonio, whether starting or coming off the bench, since 2002, but the 32-year-old certainly appears to be on the downside of his career.
He has never appeared in more than 77 games in his eight NBA season and missed 38 games last year. Manu plays through injuries, but his production always seems to suffer. He’s averaging 12.8 points per game, a six-year low, and he’s shooting a career-low 39.8% from the field.
In short, it wouldn’t be a bad time (or way) for the Spurs to end the Argentinean’s run in the silver-and-black.
--Do the Spurs think they’ll be able to re-sign Stoudemire as a free agent?
San Antonio will pay the luxury tax this season, barring an unforeseen salary-dump-type trade, and they have more than $53 million committed to just six players in the 2010-11 season. Stoudemire, who is expected to decline his $17.6 million player option for next season and look for a long-term deal, would be the team’s fourth eight-figure player.
Assuming the Spurs give Stoudemire a deal worth approximately $15 million next season, they’d have more than $62 million tied up in Stoudemire, Tim Duncan, Richard Jefferson and Tony Parker. That’s well over the decreasing salary cap and there are another eight roster spots to fill. When you add the contracts of Antonio McDyess, George Hill and DeJuan Blair for 2010-11, San Antonio’s cap number hits close to $70 million (for eight bodies).
Spurs owner Peter Holt opened up his wallet this season, but will he be willing to do so again?
The heavy tax bill could last just one year with the contracts of Richard Jefferson and Tony Parker coming off the books in 2011. It’s hard to imagine Parker going elsewhere, but the Jefferson experiment hasn’t gone as planned thus far. I’m not giving up on what was considered one of the biggest acquisitions of the offseason, but at the very least he won’t be a $15 million player in 2011.
--Would Suns general manager Steve Kerr want to send Amar’e to a Western rival?
A majority of the teams that have been mentioned in rumors involving Stoudemire are from the Eastern Conference, but there are a variety of reasons for that. For one, there are more teams in the East with cap room in this and upcoming seasons. Second, there are more teams looking to shake things up and start anew in the East.
Kerr has swung two major deals in his two seasons in Phoenix -- the Marion/Shaq deal and the Shaq-to-Cleveland deal -- both of which involved the East. However, he has a history of working with R.C. Buford, having traded the rights to Malik Hairston and cash to the Spurs for the rights for Goran Dragic on Draft Night in 2008.
Ultimately, it’ll likely come down to who can offer what for Stoudemire and the Spurs will have quite a bit of compe ion.
--What kind of package is Phoenix looking for in return?
It’s hard to get a feel for exactly what Kerr is looking for, but with a variety of suitors he’ll likely be able to sit back and decide what package works best for the Suns. They have lost three of their last ten games and are in danger of falling out of the playoff picture with the Rockets, Hornets and Thunder breathing down their neck.
Their play in the next two weeks will have a huge bearing on any potential Stoudemire deal. If they continue to struggle, the likelihood of a deal will increase and their focus on next season will alter what they are looking for in return. If they peel off a run of victories, Kerr may be more likely to hold onto Stoudemire and roll the dice this offseason in exchange for a possible postseason berth.
If I were Kerr, my ideal package would include a first-round pick this June, about $8-$10 million in expiring contracts and between $6-8 million worth of young/role players.
With all those questions answered, how badly do the Spurs need Stoudemire?
Very badly.
As I mentioned earlier, San Antonio is a moderate losing streak away from the Lottery and the offseason acquisition of Jefferson hasn’t provided them with the shot in the arm they needed. They need to add talent and youth, something Amar’e would unquestionably bring.
Sure, he’s got more miles on his tires than a typical 27-year-old and a history of injury, but Stoudemire has shown this season that he can be a force once again. He’s averaging 20.6 points and 8.4 rebounds without having missed a game.
Much like Duncan did for David Robinson, the addition of Amar’e would help extend the career of the iconic power forward.
Duncan is just a little bit older than Robinson was when the Spurs drafted the former first overall in 1997. The Admiral was able to play fewer minutes and sustain a high level of play with the younger Duncan around. The cycle could begin again, with Duncan serving as Robinson and Stoudemire serving as a slightly older and more boisterous version of Duncan.
The Spurs are already giving Duncan games off to keep him fresh. The addition of a player like Stoudemire would be ideal. Duncan has always had a great supporting cast, with the full emergence of guys like Parker and Ginobili after the retirement of Robinson, but he hasn’t had an elite interior force to lessen then burden since Navy’s most famous basketball alum retired.
Without the injuries, Amar’e would be in his athletic prime, although it’s possible that he could improve mentally over the next season or two. I’m not sure he’ll approach his numbers from 2005 or 2008 (his best seasons, averaging roughly 25 points, nine rebounds and more than two rejections), but assuming his knees and eyes hold up, he certainly has another handful of borderline All-Star seasons left.
I’m talking about averages of 18-22 points, around eight boards and at least one block per game. Playing alongside a guy like Duncan would make him more effective with defenses having to pick-their-poison when facing the Spurs. If he plays up to those expectations, we’re talking about a guy with roughly 20,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 1,000 blocks before he hits his mid-thirties.
That’s exactly the kind of player that could put San Antonio back onto their le-every-odd-year track.
Of course, Stoudemire’s critics contend that he hasn’t been the same player since he returned from microfracture surgery.
His true shooting percentage, rebound rate and PER are all down in each of the last two seasons. Stoudemire’s TS% was at it’s highest in 2008, but it’s dipped to 60.6% this year, a number better than just three of his seven other campaigns, though still very good.
Amar’e has seen his rebound rate go up this year (to 13.6 from 12.9), but he’s down from a three-year stretch (2006-08) when he posted rates of 17.8, 17.0 and 15.2. Keeping in line with his decreasing efficiency, his PER has gone down in each of the last two years.
Last season’s numbers could be considered an aberration due to the lost season in Phoenix brought on by Terry Porter’s failed coaching tenure, but that doesn’t explain this year’s dip, which fuels critic’s claims that his knee injures have robbed him of effectiveness.
With that said how many players are averaging more than 20 points, eight rebounds and one block per game?
The list is a short one: Chris Bosh, Chris Kaman and Stoudemire.
There are a number of deals that could put Amar’e alongside Duncan, but the one I like best involves San Antonio sending Ginobili, Mason and a future draft pick to Phoenix for Stoudemire and a second-round pick farther down the road.
The Spurs (and Suns) have options. San Antonio could swap Mason out for Bonner or Finley (all expiring deals).
San Antonio was the NBA’s textbook franchise in the 2000s, but they need to take a chance heading into the new decade.
Pop leaked this to light a fire under McDyess and RJ's asses.
has anyone mentioned:
1) Amare's team and individual defense is questionable (though improved), potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs;
2) Amare's offense relies on transition and one the greatest of pass-first point guards, whereas the Spurs offense is traditionally half-court oriented, and our point guard, although a reliable distributor of the ball on penetrate and kick sets, is largely a scoring point guard, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs. and
3) Manu is our only perimeter player currently able to create offense for himself, and, while not a lock-down defender, is often capable of game changing defensive swipes, potentially making a trade of Manu a poor decision for the Spurs.
likewise, has anyone pointed out that on the other hand:
1) Amare is strong and athletic, and can jump out of the building, and could fill a long standing need in the Spurs' frontline.
2) Amare lights us up everytime we face him in the playoffs, and it would be nice to get him away from one of our regular western conference rivals.
but still, has anyone brought up that:
1) Amare is a bag, and that his entire time in Phoenix has been marred by poor relations in the locker room, with management, and with the coaching staff, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs.
2) Amare was so irked and discontented that the Sun's offensive focus included fellow all-star Marion, that the Suns were forced into trading away one or the other, certain that the situation could otherwise not be resolved, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs. and
3) Amare passionately and violently hates gingers, potentially making Amare a poor match for the Spurs.
Last edited by senorglory; 01-28-2010 at 01:56 AM. Reason: typos a;sdlfkjas;dflkj
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