Lets try this again...the Spurs are not going to trade for Amare, they are hoping to help facilitate a trade(ie. be the third team in the trade) & in that scenario, we would most likely receive a player like Tyrus Thomas in exchange for hopefully bonner & finley...so no need to worry about his knee, or how tall he is, or his d..etc..
JESUS PEOPLE. The Spurs aren't looking at Amare. It's plain and simple they are not and your speculation is beside the point.
Stoudamire is worth a lot more to teams like the Bulls. What the Spurs could get out of joining as facilitator is far more important here, and that's why they're hovering around.
oh, o.k., I see now.
The rest of your argument is spot-on, but I have to contest these points. Amare gets a bad rap, but I've never seen Amare pout, get down on a teammate, argue with a coach, argue with a teammate, etc. He's always supportive of his fellow Suns, is always complimentary of other players, and seems to get along fine with everyone in the locker room. The only person he's ever seemed to have a problem with was Marion, and that was more Marion's ego than Amare's. It was Marion that verbally complained most of the time, not Amare.
Amare does a lot of charity work, is actively involved in the Phoenix community, and has a great relationship with fans. I don't know where this idea comes from that Amare is a bag. Just because he did some pushups while playing the Spurs doesn't make him a bad person.
And who doesn't hate gingers?
The Spurs should've learned from last year that number one picks are as precious as gold. They gave away last year's pick to OKC in the dreaded KT trade the year before. Fortunately for them, they hedged themselves by having PHX's #37 pick and used that to get Blair.
It makes no difference that they want to win now, this team is staring at an upcoming transition in a year or so. How well the new acquisitions fare will determine whether that transition occurs sooner rather than later. Right now, they aren't faring very well. Therefore, the Spurs can ill-afford to start giving away picks.
Last edited by SenorSpur; 01-28-2010 at 01:47 AM.
You may be right, I was basing that last part on what I read in 7 Seconds Or Less, which consistent with what you're saying, does put Marion in a much worse light.The rest of your argument is spot-on, but I have to contest these points. Amare gets a bad rap, but I've never seen Amare pout, get down on a teammate, argue with a coach, argue with a teammate, etc. He's always supportive of his fellow Suns, is always complimentary of other players, and seems to get along fine with everyone in the locker room. The only person he's ever seemed to have a problem with was Marion, and that was more Marion's ego than Amare's. It was Marion that verbally complained most of the time, not Amare.
Amare does a lot of charity work, is actively involved in the Phoenix community, and has a great relationship with fans. I don't know where this idea comes from that Amare is a bag. Just because he did some pushups while playing the Spurs doesn't make him a bad person.
And who doesn't hate gingers?
Personally, I like Amare, and haven't seen him act out on the court. Maybe the media has blown things all out of proportion. Maybe Chris Ford is a liar.
amare isnt the answer, and its not going to happen.
what spurs need is another big to help anchor the paint. mcdyess played well tonight and he needs to continue to get minutes and play well, there is a lot of pressure on him being the 2nd best big. Blair is atrocious on defense and bonner is bonner.
If the spurs could try to bring in a player like Haywood, Camby or even Ty Thomas... that would help our defense just by having better size and rebounding.
Yeah, I know. Even though I believe I said 6-8 multiple times, I meant 6-9. Whatever the case may be, I know he's not 6-10 and that means he's not big enough to effectively guard Gasol.
it's about more than that just loyalty. as noted elsewhere, this team won championships with the likes of Oberto and Finley in the starting lineup... chemistry is more important than a single player with good stats - particularly when those stats are inflated and that player is not interested in team basketball.
and yes, the team is dysfunctional, more so this year than last. what's changed since then? we went out and overspent on players with good stats, messing up the team's chemistry. why do the same thing again and exacerbate the problem?
Because if chemistry is jacked we should at least get players with better stats.
manu and tim are the heart of this team anyone but them please pop!!!!!!!!!!! i will be disgusted if we let go manu the way hes been trying so hard!!!! and hes not injured and can actually contribute without the ball!!!!!
What is Phoenix thinking with Amar'e?
By Kelly Dwyer
As you've likely heard by now, multiple sources are telling Adrian Wojnarowski that the Spurs are exploring the idea of potentially trading for Phoenix big man Amar'e Stoudemire. The thinking goes that the Spurs are in full-on win now-mode, and though it may cost San Antonio Manu Ginobili plus rotation parts, the trade off might still be worth it.
For Phoenix, going big-to-small and young-to-old in picking up Manu-for-Amar'e comes down to simple finances. The Suns have been bent on cutting costs since owner Robert Sarver made his first big splash as Suns owner back in the summer of 2005, costing them a series of young players, and they don't think Amar'e will re-sign in Phoenix after he opts-out of the last year of his contract this summer. They think he's gone, to greener pastures, so you might as well try to secure some contributors for his services right now.
That's the logical thinking, for now. We're still not sure about that, but we'll hold off on those thoughts until later in this post.
The immediate reaction, from the comments that dot these pages to the mainstream media bloviators on TV, runs along the line of, "the Spurs wouldn't make that deal. Amar'e Stoudemire isn't what the Spurs are all about."
Well, no. The Spurs are about winning. And though Amar'e doesn't subscribe to the team's usual philosophy of defense-first, and tattoos-last, Gregg Popovich will do anything he can to secure a roster that they think will help them win. Even if that means going against type.
And if coach Pop and San Antonio R.C. Buford think that Amar'e Stoudemire will help them win, as much as I think I like to know what's what in this league, I'm inclined to buy their take over mine.
It's Phoenix's intentions, at this early (and hypothetical) point in the game, that I'm concerned about.
The Suns are reeling, in danger of missing the playoffs for the second straight year, and facing all sorts of internal crises. The budget has to be cut. The team's best player, Steve Nash, might be enjoying a career year; but he also about to turn 36 years old. The team's core, at its absolute best (something that, with Nash and Grant Hill aging), is still far from championship core.
Would trading for Manu Ginobili, George Hill, and Matt Bonner change that? Likely not. Nash and Manu could ham and egg it like no guard duo we've ever seen before, but they could also fail to mesh properly, working with another guard that needs the ball as much.
I don't quite think that's the point, though.
Manu has an expiring contract. And while it's been accepted that if the Suns pulled the trigger on a deal like this that Manu would be off this summer and that the Suns would enjoy the savings (without adding rookies, the Suns would be at around $46 million in payroll next summer, about six or seven million under the expected cap). But I think we're underestimating the sheer amount of savings that they're thinking about right now.
Perhaps the idea that the Suns won't be able to sign Amar'e after the season is just a ruse. They might very well be fearing a Carlos Boozer-styled, unexpected opt-in. And as it is with the San Antonio front office, I trust the Suns front office to have best handle on what means most ($$$) to Amar'e.
Perhaps the Suns know the lay of the land better than anyone at this point, understanding both Stoudemire better than any team and what this summer's offseason will look like better than Stoudemire does, and they're thinking of trading Amar'e because they know that Stoudemire will actually opt-in next year.
That he'll be on the books for close to $18 million. And while a potent scoring big like Stoudemire is usually worth his weight in gold, I have a good feeling that the Suns are less scared about the typical "we'd lose him for nothing anyway" shrug of shoulders, and more fearful that Amar'e would be opting into almost $18 million that they for years hadn't planned on paying him.
It's been assumed for years, since he returned with a force in 2006-07, that Stoudemire would be opting-out and joining the 2010 free agent class. Since then, the Suns have been furiously cutting salary, while moving high-priced deck chairs like Shawn Marion, Shaquille O'Neal, and Ben Wallace, along with paying money to cut themselves loose from Wallace and former coach Terry Porter's presence.
They've also been preparing for what could be an impending lockout, prepping for what could be the second straight spring without playoff revenue, and do you think (as much as they and we revere someone like Steve Nash) they would have re-signed their former MVP point man to play until he's 38 at over 11 and a half million a year had they known Stoudemire would opt in?
I think they're freaked out that Amar'e might not leave, thinking he'll act pennywise (the impending 2011 CBA will no doubt limit his chances to eventually make more money than he'd make this summer) in the face of being unable to make more than $18 million starting with a new team. And I can't blame them.
And because it's not my money, I can't blame them for looking around for expiring contracts that truly are expiring contracts, and not the sort of "expiring contract" we thought Carlos Boozer owned this time last year.
To me, the oddity in all of this isn't the Spurs, thinking aloud about a player that seems a bit unlike them.
It's Phoenix. Still desperate to cut costs, fearful of being "stuck" with a player who can drop 25 and 10 in his sleep.
This trade package makes the most sense.
I think there's way too much buzz about this for it to be unfounded.
pop/buford/holz contact info anyone?????????????????????/
Could the Spurs trade Manu, then the Suns cut him and the Spurs resign him like the Barry situation a few years ago?
Stern would sniff that collusion out in a nanosecond.
My premise, as I'm sure it is the Spurs premise, is to make them certified contenders again. Any trade that can't (theoretically) accomplish that is pointless. Thomas fits into that category. I don't think this team needs to gut their roster or make drastic changes to become a contender again. Sure, they could use a player like Thomas, they could use a better perimeter stopper, they could use more depth at PG, but in reality no team has everything covered and the one glaring hole this team does have is number two big man. They get that and it will probably minimize the importance of those other needs.
Thomas seems moody and is a perpetual malcontent. I have a hard time believing he would embrace the Spurs system (or be able to pick up enough of it in less than 30 games to be able to make an impact in the playoffs). Think about if: if a guy like McDyess, who's known as a solid veteran, with a relatively high basketball IQ and a strong work ethic still doesn't look entirely comfortable (though that may be changing the past few games), then how will Thomas, who's not regarded as being any of those things?
This can't happen due to a bunch of reasons but the simplest to explain would be the salary cap.
Spurs are already several million $$ over the salary cap this year and will most likely be over cap next year if they keep Amare so they can't sign any free agents (Manu would basically be a free agent in your scenario).
That was the issue with Dice when he was traded to Denver cut and resigned by Detroit. Detroit was over the cap. The salary cap part was assessed to Denver and Dice was resigned for the prorated vet minimum. The same happened with Barry.
Of course it could theoretically happen. Manu would get his full salary from the Suns and a prorated minimum deal from the Spurs.
The difference in this is that Manu's a $10 million player.
If Manu's willing to take the veteran minimum, yes, the Spurs can get him back.
But from recent stories regarding Manu, it seems more likely that Manu will treat this as a business transaction and get the most he can get; rather than take a paycut in loyalty to the Spurs.
Theoretically. Sure it can happen next season (not this season).
However, I don't see Manu taking a paycut down to the vet minimum for the Spurs though due to his recent comments about realizing the NBA is a business and unhappiness about not getting a new contract/extension.
Why are we arguing hypotheticals?
Why are we arguing hypotheticals?
Manu would not take a pay cut. He would be due his salary from the Suns and get a vet minimum bonus. I do think he would have to get through waivers which I'm not sure would happen.
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