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Yeah Thomas did look good tonight against the Magic: 16 pts, 6 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and only 2 fouls in 35 minutes
Salmons had 12 pts, 3 boards, 1 steal, 1 blk in 32 minutes
I think Duncan is between 6'10 and 6'11. It's hard to tell in pics, no matter who he's with. And he slouches, which makes it even harder.
He's never been 7'0, that's for sure. The 'Twin Towers' was marketing on the Spurs part. Duncan was listed as 7'0 in the Media Guides until Robinson retired. Duncan asked them to change it, it went to 6'11 in the '03-'04 issue.
Yeah Thomas did look good tonight against the Magic: 16 pts, 6 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and only 2 fouls in 35 minutes
Salmons had 12 pts, 3 boards, 1 steal, 1 blk in 32 minutes
To be fair, most of his damage was against the Magic bench, although Orlando might have the best bench in the NBA..
Yeah, it is hard to tell. I remember that picture from the '07 or '08 All-Star game; it looked weird then and it does now. I've seen Duncan and Nowitzki in close enough proximity enough times to know that there's not that big a gap between them in height. In that picture, it appears there's about 3.5 inches, which isn't the case. There's at most a 1 inch difference.I think Duncan is between 6'10 and 6'11. It's hard to tell in pics, no matter who he's with. And he slouches, which makes it even harder.
He's never been 7'0, that's for sure. The 'Twin Towers' was marketing on the Spurs part. Duncan was listed as 7'0 in the Media Guides until Robinson retired. Duncan asked them to change it, it went to 6'11 in the '03-'04 issue.
You're right, he does slouch. I remember one time seeing him in a picture with Robinson and he looked about 3-3.5 inches smaller. Still other times I've seen the two of them and thought there was about a 2 inch difference.
Draftexpress, for what it's worth, lists him as 6'11'' without shoes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSqrJSezg0c
Between 7-8 minute mark. It's not exactly clear, but this much is certain: there's nowhere near the gap in height that there is in that photo.
Last edited by TD 21; 02-10-2010 at 10:49 PM.
TD's probably close to 7-0 in shoes; Dirk's actually 7-1 in shoes (by his own admission).
Without shoes, Bosh is listed 6-10 1/4, Dwight's listed at 6-9, and Amar'e's listed at 6-8 1/4.
I think Bosh's height looks to be a tad generous but it's feasible; Dwight's and Amar'e's is about where I expected it. I just don't think there's ever been as many 7-footers as we've been made to believe (it's like every one of us that's around 6-foot, claiming we're in fact 6-foot, even if most aren't quite that tall).
I don't know if you remember 'Zo coming into the league, but he was considered an undersized center when he broke in; he was a legit 6-10. Dave, Ewing, Shaq, Smits, Daugherty, etc., were legit 7-footers, and it seemed like every team had someone coming off the bench of equal size (even if scrubtastic). So I don't know if 7-footers are becoming fewer in numbers or if their skill sets are taking them further away from the basket (playing in ways that deceive the eye), but something's definitely changed.
When I think of Tim's contemporaries and compe ion since he's been in the league, there's not a lot of 7-footers of note: Shaq (~7-1), KG (7-0), Dirk (7-0), and Pau and Bynum are both a little over 7-0. Jermaine O'Neal is comparable to Bosh, 'Sheed's about the same size as Tim, Webber was probably about the same size as Dwight and a guy like Brand's around 6-8.
Tim's been my measuring stick of sorts (if you're taller, your probably 7-0, And if you're shorter, you're likely no taller than 6-10)
Having said all that, and it was more than I planned on, height is highly overrated if you don't have length.
Tim, 'Sheed, KG, Pau (ridiculous wingspan), Howard, among others, are long. A guy like Thomas, standing 6-7 1/4 without shoes, with a 7-3 wingspan and 9-0 standing reach, (Blair's is 7-2 and 8-10 1/2, for a frame of reference) combines his freakish athleticism and length to get the job done. Elton Brand is another undersized post-player, but his incredible length made him one of the better shotblockers in the league for a good stretch there.
Sean always likes to say he's never seen a player rebound or block a shot with the top of his head, and he's absolutely right. It definitely doesn't hurt to have the height to go along with the length, it's just not as important as some think.
My only intention was to say that they're trying to get him viewed as more than a throw-in. They want him to be a sweetener enticing enough to put a deal over the top; something like putting the thought in GS's mind that he could be a cheap, cost-cutting replacement for Biedrins, for example.
I think most, especially given his Draft history, all but gave up on the idea of him helping an NBA team. It's doubtful most knew the loophole to give a player 3 years removed from the Draft a LLE or MLE-type contract to cir vent the rookie-scale. And most probably wrote him off after what happened the last time the Spurs tried to bring him over. (most might be an exaggeration, but there's definitely some hesitation; rightly so.)
The fact that this was being reported at this juncture, just made me think Splitter's become part of the chatter that always picks up this time of year. And even if it's just me reading into it, which I readily admitted from the jump, I could easily see the Spurs making sure this type of information got out, as in a way to generate interest and maybe see if they could get any bites; if Splitter's thought to be coming over, and a team knows he'll be forced to take a reasonable deal, it's just a much better position to be in for the Spurs.
I'm certain that Bosh and Howard are of equal height. Keep in mind, for the high school guys in particular, they could have grown. Dunleavy Jr. grew 6 inches after the age of 18.
In general, I think you're right. I've never understood why with basketball players people go (if the guy is 6-10 or so) "he's a 7-0 footer". They'd never do the same with a 5-10 guy. They wouldn't go "he's 6-0", they'd go "he's 5-10". Why would the same not apply with guys approximately a foot taller?
I know, the league used to be bigger. Look at how many teams are playing PF's as C's.
Again I agree: Length in conjunction with height is important. Look at Bonner, who's probably about 6-9 in shoes. He's not that undersized, but because he has no length (nor athleticism/quickness) he has absolutely no presence defensively. McDyess, who's also 6-9, has decent length and because of it, he looks, at least to me, bigger than Bonner, even though he's not. Ratliff, who's 6-10, gives the impression that he's a 7-0 footer because of his length and his presence defensively.
There's no point in me continuing to ramble on, other than to say I agree with all of this.
I think you're reading too much into it. I'd be surprised if Splitter doesn't have more value than as a thrown-in. I doubt the generally fiscally responsible Spurs would rather pay significantly more for Biedrins than Splitter, when, when it's all said and done Splitter will probably end up being in Biedrins' league as a player.
A lot of these GM's are stupid, but they're not that inept, to the point where they wouldn't know something like that about the CBA. At least I can't imagine they would be, anyway.
I think you misunderstood the premise of the article. Sheridan is saying that these are valuable assets that could figure into deadline deals, not necessarily "this is what/who's being shopped"; big difference.
We're definitely on the same page.
As it pertains to Bosh and Howard, and it's with this way across the board, their body-types probably deceive the eye more than anything.
I'm guessing they're probably both pretty close to 6-10, Dwight's bulk and Bosh's slender build just don't allow to you to get a real precise read by comparison.
Because they're good friends, I've seen them standing beside each other many a time; they're clearly dead even in terms of height.We're definitely on the same page.
As it pertains to Bosh and Howard, and it's with this way across the board, their body-types probably deceive the eye more than anything.
I'm guessing they're probably both pretty close to 6-10, Dwight's bulk and Bosh's slender build just don't allow to you to get a real precise read by comparison.
Speaking of the lack of young true centers, Howard is another guy that broke in as a PF. If you put him in the 90s in the NBA, he'd probably play more PF than C. In today's game, he's strictly a C. That gives you an indication of how much things have changed.
No, you missed the trade proposal I was discussing earlier.
The Spurs wouldn't get Biedrins, they'd get Maggette and Randolph. Splitter would be a sweetener because they're looking to shed payroll and acquiring Tiago could be a low-cost replacement for Biedrins. They could then trade Andris in a separate deal, one that has nothing to do with the Spurs, to acquire someone else that fits their business model and plans moving forward.
That's what always kind of made me laugh about these recent Pistons and their dominant front line (defensively, that is). They were, all things considered, power forwards.
The game's definitely changed in that respect, and I'm not sure it will ever go back...
10 pages into this thread.... is there strong evidence that the Spurs might actually make a serious move before the trade deadline ?
Bulls not lacking for Thomas suitors
By Adrian Wojnarowski
After the Chicago Bulls suspended forward Tyrus Thomas for losing his temper with coach Vinny Del Negro, an interesting thing happened: More teams started calling the franchise’s front office wanting to talk about a trade.
Everyone understood Chicago executives are now determined to move Thomas, and a clear price has been established for suitors: Expiring contracts and a 2010 or future first-round draft pick, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Bulls are also exploring ways to package Thomas with guard Kirk Hinrich to free themselves of his contract.
The Charlotte Bobcats bid Acie Law, Flip Murray and their 2010 first-round pick, a league executive said. The Bobcats have been searching for a long, athletic forward like Thomas, the fourth pick in the 2007 draft, and are expected to be aggressive pursuers. Portland Trail Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard made an offer they’ll have to improve upon to be taken seriously – one of his expiring contracts (Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw) and two future second-round draft picks.
The New York Knicks, Sacramento Kings, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets and New Orleans Hornets are among the multiple teams who’ve spoken to Chicago about Thomas. The Bulls are telling people that they have several teams willing to offer first-round picks – in 2010 or beyond.
Bulls management is telling teams they expect to take the bidding right to the Feb. 18 deadline. The Bulls want to avoid the possibility of Thomas accepting a $6.2 million qualifying offer on the eve of this summer’s free agency, which would deliver a major dent to their salary-cap space. Thomas, 23, will be a restricted free agent this summer.
The Bulls are desperate to recruit Miami’s Dwyane Wade back to his hometown, but one source familiar with Wade’s thinking says he’s ”far less” inclined to bolt Miami unless Chicago has the ability to sign a ”significant” free agent to join him.
Oh, well that makes more sense.
They were. Wallace (Ben) broke in as an undersized power forward. He eventually became strictly a center.
I don't think it will. It's kind of unfortunate, too. Positionally, a mockery has been made of the game. Because Blair is a post-up player, with little to no shooting range and he's not adept at guarding mobile power forwards, he's basically a center. It looks foolish to see a 6-6 guy playing the middle, yet he is and on top of that, he's paired with a 6-9 power forward who's strictly a 3-point shooter. It's good that most of those 7-0 foot+, slow, unskilled plodders have been weeded out, but seeing undersized power forwards playing center just looks wrong/weird.
I agree with those who think this is golden age for the league, in terms of overall talent, but the game has been dumbed down in the process. So much of the game is pick-and-roll or high-screen; how many plays are actually being run? That's what I liked about watching the Spurs in their heyday, the fact that they actually ran an offense that consisted of more than one or two plays; it was nice to see. Now, they're slowly but surely drifting into just another team. Everything is either a pick-and-roll or a post-up. Whatever happened to guard around or wedge roll?
, it's now going to take a 1st round pick as well. I still say it's worth it, only now it's not quite the steal or no brainer it was before.
To Bulls: Mason, Bonner, Mahinmi, '10 1st round pick
To Spurs: Thomas, Pargo
If the Spurs offer that, that definitely beats the Bobcats offer. Off the top of my head, this is probably the best the Bulls can do, short of finding a team willing to take Hinrich or Salmons. If that's the case, then you can more than likely rule the Spurs out. In my theoretical trade, the Bulls get another athletic, young big, who doubles as an expiring contract, back and they get two fairly sizable (combined) expiring contracts. The Bobcats offer wouldn't net them as much savings and they don't get a guy with any upside, unless you count Law; I don't.
Yeah, it made no sense to me for the Bulls to trade Ty Thomas for nothing. Surprising that it was a Chicago newspaper that had that illogical take.
I know Thomas' value has taken a hit but there's no way he's a salary dump at this point.
Denver's shopping for another big to add to their fleet
By Matt Moore
With Nene, Kenyon Martin, Birdman Anderson, and Carmelo Anthony, along with some bench guys in a pinch, you'd think the Nuggets, sitting in the 2nd seed would be feeling pretty good about their team and in particular their frontcourt. And you would be wrong for thinking so.
The Denver Post reports that Denver is considering a trade for a big to contend with the Lakers' unbelievable length. Two specific targets mentioned are Tyrus Thomas of the Bulls and Marcus Camby of the Clippers. George Karl said that the roster may be good enough to get the Nuggets where they want to go as long as they stay healthy. The problem with that thinking is that with a week before the trade deadline, the Nuggets are forced to try and forsee that injury before it occurs. Which is difficult unless you're on some sort of chemical Birdman used to frequent.
Camby fits with that roster, and would probably welcome a trip back to Denver. Thomas, on the other hand, is known as a headcase. So on the one hand you've got old and expensive versus young and brash. All this for a team with veteran leadership, an MVP candidate, two All-Stars, and the second seed in a tough Western Conference. Beggars can't be choosers, but apparently kings can.
In a straight up trade for Thomas, the Bobcats can offer Law, Murray and a first rounder and blow that Spurs deal out of the water. A first rounder from Charlotte is much more valuable. Plus, Mahinmi's contractual severely limits his value. You can't really count him as an asset at this point.
It sounds like the only way the Spurs can get Thomas is if they give the Bulls a first rounder AND take a bad contract.
That's a lot.
Spurs will be LUCKY to land Tyrus Thomas with this much interest he's garnering around the league. Spurs probably aren't going to be able to make enough of an offer even with Splitter included to win the sweepstakes.
ing hilarious that spurs' fans don't even want to include a guy who is anyone's guess whether or not he ever even comes to the NBA.
Really pathetic.
It made no sense to me either. I guess the Bulls finally just came to their senses. Honestly, though, this is the first report that says they're looking for a 1st round pick. Before it was just expiring contracts.
The Nuggets don't have the assets to get a deal done. Can't see it happening.
Depends on how the two teams finish. As of right now, the two teams are close in the standings. The Spurs deal (not that he's a superstar) get's him out of the conference, which I always think, if the offers are close enough, is the way to go, nets them more savings and allows them to take a flier on a young, athletic front court player to replace Thomas, which they need. The Bulls have no depth and with Thomas about to be traded and Miller likely on his way out, if not at the deadline, then probably in the off season, they could use Mahinmi as a cheap fourth or fifth big because all they got left is Noah, Gibson and combo forward Johnson.
I don't think the Spurs will have to take a bad contract, but we'll see. Obviously, the Bulls preference, in order, is to saddle someone with Hinrich or Salmons, along with Thomas. Anyone willing to take them get's Thomas. Outside of that, I'd say the Spurs have a fairly good chance.
Camby would be better for the nuggets IMO. They have plenty of athletic leapers on their frontline where the spurs are practically des ute of any. Hopefully if the nuggets make a deal it would be for Camby and the spurs get Thomas.
I thought the Spurs couldn't give another 1st round trade anyway since they already did give one in 09?
With the way things goes, Spurs' 2010 first round pick won't be a late one. Bulls could instead ask for Spurs' 2011 first round pick to have more capspace in 2010, but it likely won't be a late first round pick.
Giving up a mid first round pick for a risky gamble like Tyrus Thomas? It makes no sense.
If they want the 1st rounder, I'd probably say no, but only if the FO assumes we can get something good in return for Jefferson's contract next season..
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