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  1. #26
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Honestly i knew it would go this route but I wasn't trying to make it a religious debate. I truly was asking just to hear different theories. I mean because when it all comes down to it it is mostly theories right? I mean we can say that we evolved from this or that but there is no concrete evidence showing that correct? Unless by some miracle (lol) we find a way to get some kind of dna or stumble upon some ancient genetic material how could you ever know for sure.
    I mean for the most part we aren't even sure that most dinosaurs really look the way we see them in museums and television. We find certain bones and then they try to figure what the whole must look like from some spare parts. Of course I know there are a few fossils that show the whole shabang but this stuff is all interesting to me.
    I knew it would go that way too, which is why I didn't feed the troll.

    Also despite my scientific leanings on the subject, I will admit that there is some amount of faith ascribed to both theories (creation v. evolution). I won't go any further with this subject (at least the this v. that part of this subject). LOL

  2. #27
    Rooster-Lollypops TheManFromAcme's Avatar
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    The fact is, evolutionary change does not explain where we come from.

    Humans try to be too intelligent for their own good. The Lord God, Most High, is responsible for our creation, and evolutionary change is normal within His plan.


    Well put Miami, well put.

  3. #28
    fuk yo team clown tp2021's Avatar
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    People read phylogenies wrong.



    You might look at this and (incorrectly) think that humans evolved from gorillas.

    What the phylogeny is actually saying:
    There was an ancestral hominid at #150, and evolution by some mechanism (be it natural selection, genetic drift, or what have you) caused this hominid to change and diverge into 2 distinct groups, ultimately becoming their own species themselves, unique from the ancestor, but both descendants of that ancestor. One group became the orangutans, and the other one became the precurser to humans/gorillas/chimps. I'll stop explaining this part of it, and instead talk about the whole "humans evolved from gorillas" thing.

    Imagine a family tree. With humans. Two brothers will be linked by the parent. The brothers branch off from the parent (descendents branching off from ancestor). You wouldn't say that one brother descended from the other; they are both branches off of the same ancestor. Likewise, saying a human evolved from a gorilla is like saying you descended from your own brother.

    Additionally, phylogenies can be used to see which species are the closest related. Humans are actually more closely related to chimps than to gorillas; trace back to the MOST RECENT common ancestor: the human-chimp ancestor (#14) appeared more recently than the gorilla-human/chimp ancestor (#70). This can also be analogous to a family tree; you are more closely related to your brother (most recent common ancestor: parents) than your cousin (most recent common ancestor: grandparents).
    Last edited by tp2021; 02-11-2010 at 04:17 PM.

  4. #29
    Believe? rAm's Avatar
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    Honestly i knew it would go this route but I wasn't trying to make it a religious debate. I truly was asking just to hear different theories. I mean because when it all comes down to it it is mostly theories right? I mean we can say that we evolved from this or that but there is no concrete evidence showing that correct? Unless by some miracle (lol) we find a way to get some kind of dna or stumble upon some ancient genetic material how could you ever know for sure.
    I mean for the most part we aren't even sure that most dinosaurs really look the way we see them in museums and television. We find certain bones and then they try to figure what the whole must look like from some spare parts. Of course I know there are a few fossils that show the whole shabang but this stuff is all interesting to me.
    I mean, who are you crying too? You are only not sure about all of this because you have been lied to your whole life. Now that you are getting older and finding out more facts, your brain is telling you something is not right. Hence your reasoning to start a thread and start asking about all of these things.

    The reason this turns into a one side vs the other is because one side is not open to new ideas because it contradicts everything they have been preaching and stealing money with for the past two thousand years. While the other side might have many theories, but they all agree that the earth is more than 10,000 years old or however long creationists believe its been since god shat out the entire universe.

  5. #30
    fuk yo team clown tp2021's Avatar
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    I am a believer in God, and I know that evolution is one of the most sound Scientific theories out there (Scientific theory=/=layman definition of theory). What's to say that the Creator didn't put in place a mechanism that would allow all of His creations on Earth to exist and go forth their own way, and changing over time on their own? I'm sure God wouldn't want to sit up there and make all the changes for us. If He has the power to put the driving mechanisms of evolution into us, giving us as His creations the power to grow and change, why wouldn't he?

  6. #31
    God Talks To Me. angel_luv's Avatar
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    For questions about man's origin, I like to point people to Psalm 139.

    Psalm 139
    For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.
    1 O LORD, you have searched me
    and you know me.
    2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
    you perceive my thoughts from afar.

    3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
    you are familiar with all my ways.

    4 Before a word is on my tongue
    you know it completely, O LORD.

    5 You hem me in—behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.

    6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

    7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
    Where can I flee from your presence?

    8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
    if I make my bed in the depths, [a] you are there.

    9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
    if I settle on the far side of the sea,

    10 even there your hand will guide me,
    your right hand will hold me fast.

    11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
    and the light become night around me,"

    12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
    the night will shine like the day,
    for darkness is as light to you.

    13 For you created my inmost being;
    you knit me together in my mother's womb.

    14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.

    15 My frame was not hidden from you
    when I was made in the secret place.
    When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

    16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
    All the days ordained for me
    were written in your book
    before one of them came to be.

    17 How precious to [b] me are your thoughts, O God!
    How vast is the sum of them!

    18 Were I to count them,
    they would outnumber the grains of sand.
    When I awake,
    I am still with you.

  7. #32
    Believe? rAm's Avatar
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    That's fine, and a theory that all scientists and believers in science can get down with because no one really knows what existed before the "big bang".

    The thing I have a problem with is this: http://www.viceland.com/blogs/en/201...eation-museum/

  8. #33
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    I mean, who are you crying too? You are only not sure about all of this because you have been lied to your whole life. Now that you are getting older and finding out more facts, your brain is telling you something is not right. Hence your reasoning to start a thread and start asking about all of these things.

    The reason this turns into a one side vs the other is because one side is not open to new ideas because it contradicts everything they have been preaching and stealing money with for the past two thousand years. While the other side might have many theories, but they all agree that the earth is more than 10,000 years old or however long creationists believe its been since god shat out the entire universe.
    With all due respect, the Bible does not have any information about the age of the Earth. Any theories about the age of the Earth are fiction, including the '10,000' number.

    The Lord God did not specify when He created the Earth, only that He did create it... and that is a fact.

  9. #34
    Believe? rAm's Avatar
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    oh spare us angel_luv, go live in your ignorant bubble and continue to be a sheep

    what about all the books the early christians removed from the Bible? what were in those? how come those didn't fit in the plan for the christian "church", who took an inspirational man in Jesus and played it to their favor to gain power and money.

  10. #35
    Believe? rAm's Avatar
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    With all due respect, the Bible does not have any information about the age of the Earth. Any theories about the age of the Earth are fiction, including the '10,000' number.

    The Lord God did not specify when He created the Earth, only that He did create it... and that is a fact.
    Fact how? did god come down from his clouds and tell you that?

    You picked one number from my post and harped on it instead of attacking the real issues. Just like the rest of your ilk. Whatever the number is, its re ed, and a lie, and you believe it, which makes you a sheep.

  11. #36
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    With all due respect, the Bible does not have any information about the age of the Earth. Any theories about the age of the Earth are fiction, including the '10,000' number.

    The Lord God did not specify when He created the Earth, only that He did create it... and that is a fact.
    Prove it.

  12. #37
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    A lot of Christians cannot reconcile their beliefs in creation with evolution because they insist on interpreting the Bible literally. Being a book stuffed full of allegory, parables, and borrowed numerology, it makes it hard to base a sound argument for creation on such a foundation.

  13. #38
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    Evolution does not contradict the Lord God.

  14. #39
    Believe? rAm's Avatar
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    Your posts contradict evolution.

  15. #40
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    I am only a human, I have no power or authority on this Earth concerning the Lord's affairs.

    If He wanted you to have the proof you desire, He would handle it. It is not my place, nor is it within my power, to act on behalf of the Most High.

    I am, and you are, only His children, here on Earth to live a virtuous life and serve Him.

  16. #41
    fuk yo team clown tp2021's Avatar
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    You guys HAVE to watch this presentation.

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti..._Only_a_Theory

    Given by Ken Miller, who writes Biology textbooks, you may have seen this one:





    He was also a guest on The Colbert Report once, which is actually in his presentation that I linked to. He gave this lecture at UT a few years back, I was lucky enough to attend. Seriously, he addresses and refutes a whole load of crap that people throw out saying evolution isn't real.

  17. #42
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    A lot of Christians cannot reconcile their beliefs in creation with evolution because they insist on interpreting the Bible literally. Being a book stuffed full of allegory, parables, and borrowed numerology, it makes it hard to base a sound argument for creation on such a foundation.
    The parables, allegories, and anything else in the Bible is there for the Lord to teach us in a way we can understand.

    The Earth is temporary, and ultimately going to pass away.

  18. #43
    GFY I. Hustle's Avatar
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    I mean, who are you crying too? You are only not sure about all of this because you have been lied to your whole life. Now that you are getting older and finding out more facts, your brain is telling you something is not right. Hence your reasoning to start a thread and start asking about all of these things.

    The reason this turns into a one side vs the other is because one side is not open to new ideas because it contradicts everything they have been preaching and stealing money with for the past two thousand years. While the other side might have many theories, but they all agree that the earth is more than 10,000 years old or however long creationists believe its been since god shat out the entire universe.
    I am not "crying" to anyone. Show me where I was whining or complaining. I was just stating that I was asking a serious question. Look dude I know you are probably one of those people that scoffs at religion and thinks you are superior to everyone else and that is cool, that's your right. If you think that organized religion is the only group that has been "stealing" money from it's followers than you are an idiot.
    I didn't ask why this turn into a one side vs the other thread. I knew why. I just wanted to hear the theories of those who believe in evolution. Nothing you say is going to sway me into believing it but I like to hear the theories and reasoning behind those theories.

  19. #44
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if rAm is really MiamiHeat and is using himself to troll himself

  20. #45
    God Talks To Me. angel_luv's Avatar
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    oh spare us angel_luv, go live in your ignorant bubble and continue to be a sheep

    what about all the books the early christians removed from the Bible? what were in those? how come those didn't fit in the plan for the christian "church", who took an inspirational man in Jesus and played it to their favor to gain power and money.
    The account of creation is in Genesis, which is still safe and sound in the Bible. So I am not sure how your post is relevent to the discussion at hand.


    Maybe you are just in a baaad mood?

  21. #46
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    I am only a human, I have no power or authority on this Earth concerning the Lord's affairs.

    If He wanted you to have the proof you desire, He would handle it. It is not my place, nor is it within my power, to act on behalf of the Most High.

    I am, and you are, only His children, here on Earth to live a virtuous life and serve Him.
    Having faith and having facts are different, but not mutually exclusive. I do, however, think the Lord would prefer you stating We are His children so his message is less muddled.

  22. #47
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Well I.Hustle, we kept it as a good, civil, and intelligent Q and A for as long as we could. Now its over.

    :slowly backs away

  23. #48
    God Talks To Me. angel_luv's Avatar
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    Well I.Hustle, we kept it as a good, civil, and intelligent Q and A for as long as we could. Now its over.

    :slowly backs away
    My apologies for interupting.

  24. #49
    fuk yo team clown tp2021's Avatar
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    The account of creation is in Genesis, which is still safe and sound in the Bible. So I am not sure how your post is relevent to the discussion at hand.


    Maybe you are just in a baaad mood?


    angel said, "U mad?"

  25. #50
    Believe? rAm's Avatar
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    I am not "crying" to anyone. Show me where I was whining or complaining. I was just stating that I was asking a serious question. Look dude I know you are probably one of those people that scoffs at religion and thinks you are superior to everyone else and that is cool, that's your right. If you think that organized religion is the only group that has been "stealing" money from it's followers than you are an idiot.
    I didn't ask why this turn into a one side vs the other thread. I knew why. I just wanted to hear the theories of those who believe in evolution. Nothing you say is going to sway me into believing it but I like to hear the theories and reasoning behind those theories.
    Not at all. I was born half jewish / half catholic (whatever the that means) so every week my family would switch off going to temple and church. I was able to see both sides of the religions and let me tell you, church is nothing but sensational mumbo jumbo. For christ's sake (see the pun) every time you attend church they make you raise both hands to the lord and scream swear your praise to the priest. The jewish religion is so much more down to earth its ridiculous, you don't see them combating science with lies and propaganda. Why? because they don't view their parish as customers who are supporting the church, they don't give a if you believe in god or not. They don't meddle with evolution because it isn't going steal their lifeforce from them. I don't consider myself jewish or catholic (well I consider myself jewish by blood) but growing up with both influences it was clear to me which side is genuine and which side is out of their mind.

    The church isn't the only organization that steals you are right, but its the ing CHURCH. The organization that gives a majority of our country their morals. Oh yea, and they rape little boys, was that in god's plan? Hate to go there, but its just ludicrous how blind people are. Read an evolution text book, open your eyes little man.

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