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  1. #51
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Talk about premature ejac. Ronaldinho's playmaking ability far exceeds what messi has now, and its not even a contest. The only thing that Messi does better is muscle his way in for goals, and even so I'd say Ronaldinho had a better strike the Messi does. It's too early in Messi's career to compare them fully, but right now Ronaldinho by far, not to take anything about from Messi
    How come? did you see some of the highlights posted in this thread? Messi takes the ball in the miedfield of 3/4 of the field and produces a goal out of nothing, if that's not having playmaking abilities I don't know what is.
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  2. #52
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    Talk about premature ejac. Ronaldinho's playmaking ability far exceeds what messi has now, and its not even a contest. The only thing that Messi does better is muscle his way in for goals, and even so I'd say Ronaldinho had a better strike the Messi does. It's too early in Messi's career to compare them fully, but right now Ronaldinho by far, not to take anything about from Messi
    You do realize you are in the extreme minority here. Almost every Barca fan in the world thinks Messi is better than Ronaldinho. How exactly do you explain that?

  3. #53
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    How come? did you see some of the highlights posted in this thread? Messi takes the ball in the miedfield of 3/4 of the field and produces a goal out of nothing, if that's not having playmaking abilities I don't know what is.
    actually, you're wrong. That is NOT playmaking. Playmaking is the ability to create for everyone else as well as yourself.

    Playmaking ability is not the same as dribbling ability.

    Having said that, I disagree with ffaddicted as well. Messi is just as good or even better at playmaking as Ronaldinho was.

  4. #54
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    actually, you're wrong. That is NOT playmaking. Playmaking is the ability to create for everyone else as well as yourself.
    I know I'm probably wrong ('cause English isn't my first language) but I think of "playmaking" as the ability to make plays, what do you care about involving others in plays when you by yourself can create one or two goals per game (specially in football where the scoring is limited).

  5. #55
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    I know I'm probably wrong ('cause English isn't my first language) but I think of "playmaking" as the ability to make plays, what do you care about involving others in plays when you by yourself can create one or two goals per game (specially in football where the scoring is limited).
    You're confused. They're not the same thing. Ability to dribble is not playmaking ability.

  6. #56
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You're confused. They're not the same thing. Ability to dribble is not playmaking ability.
    Ok, thanks for claryfing. But now anwser this:

    what do you care about involving others in plays when you by yourself can create one or two goals per game (specially in football where the scoring is limited).
    Either way I agree with you, Messi also has playmaking abilities, just go to youtube and watch the videos about his passing.

  7. #57
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks for claryfing. But now anwser this:



    Either way I agree with you, Messi also has playmaking abilities, just go to youtube and watch the videos about his passing.
    oh come on, are you seriously asking that question? What do you care about involving others? When did we start pretending Messi could win every game all by himself? Barca isn't Messi+10 scrubs. Playmaking ability is important. In fact, a good playmaker is ten times as important to a team as a great goal scorer.

  8. #58
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    oh come on, are you seriously asking that question? What do you care about involving others? When did we start pretending Messi could win every game all by himself? Barca isn't Messi+10 scrubs. Playmaking ability is important. In fact, a good playmaker is ten times as important to a team as a great goal scorer.
    Nobody wins a game by himslef, but a lot guys can make goals with pretty much no help whatsover and then with good team defense you can win thanks to that goal.

    IMO a "defense breaker" is just as important as a "playmaker" nowadays in football. The point of this sport is to score goals (and avoid them in your own goal), in practical terms what do you care if those goals were scored by team play or in an individual effort? granted is usually more easy to score playing as a team but if you have a guy that consistenly shows that can create at least one or two offensive plays per game (and take advantage of them) with little to none help that makes up for the lack team play. (I'm obviously not talking about Barcelona in this particular case)

  9. #59
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
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    I'd be hard pressed to find a player in this generation with the talent and technique Ronaldinho had, he could create magic out of nothing. He had a better dribble then messi, passes better and had a ridiculously accurate and powerful free kick. His range of skills and moves were unsurpassed, he was just ridiculous, he got the ball anywhere in the pitch and he could string together a scoring opportunity. I just can't say that for Messi right now, at least not in the same level.

    Messi is good and his best days are very much still to come, but I can't imagine saying he's already better then a prime Dinho. Talking about him in the same breath as Maradona at this point is a disgrace to his legacy, he hasn't even come close to surpassing guys like Ronaldo yet.
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  10. #60
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    i was blessed to see ronnie playing for my favourite team (psg). He could have had a better career but he likes to party at night.

    In fact, one of the reason he left barça was because they were afraid he'd have a bad influence on Messi who was following his steps.

  11. #61
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Random thoughts:

    - I was young but I saw Maradona playing and he is the best player I've seen in my life.
    - Lefty I'm sorry but Platini > Zidane.
    - No matter what when you are an Offensive guy it is a lot more difficult to play in Italy than in Spain or even in England. The Italian league has the best Defensive players in the world and the best tactical organization.
    - IMO Messi is clearly better than Ronaldinho, like Sonic I saw Ronnie playing in France and I'd take Messi over him in a heartbeat.

  12. #62
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
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    Being from brasil, I was blessed to see Ronaldinho's entire career, as well as being exposed to tons of different talents... I would not take Messi over him yet... other then that, agree with all Brazil's points

  13. #63
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    Random thoughts:

    - I was young but I saw Maradona playing and he is the best player I've seen in my life.
    - Lefty I'm sorry but Platini > Zidane.
    - No matter what when you are an Offensive guy it is a lot more difficult to play in Italy than in Spain or even in England. The Italian league has the best Defensive players in the world and the best tactical organization.
    - IMO Messi is clearly better than Ronaldinho, like Sonic I saw Ronnie playing in France and I'd take Messi over him in a heartbeat.
    But how exactly?
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  14. #64
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Being from brasil, I was blessed to see Ronaldinho's entire career, as well as being exposed to tons of different talents... I would not take Messi over him yet... other then that, agree with all Brazil's points


    Where do you live ? I'm french and I'm living in Campinas since 2005, my contract will expire end of 2010.

  15. #65
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    But how exactly?
    First of all France has been blessed for having 2 out of 3 best number 10 in history.

    Platini was a natural leader since he begun in Nancy, at 20 years old he was already the go to go guy, the technical, tactical leader and the coach. Zidane has accepted his leadership responsabilities later, the boss in 98 was Deschamps idem in 2000.

    Platini was more decisive offensively. He had the capacity to take over games, Zidane was capable too but not at this level and this consistency.

    Regarding the vision of the game, giving the right guy at the right moment the opportunity to finalize it's a tossup but I'll give a slight advantage to Platini: he had eyes on his back.

    Finally for the clutch part, I'd go with Zidane for his two finalizations in WC final but also his finalization of the champions league final (2002).

    What definately close the debate for me is self control, Zidane has always had craziness moments see WC 2006 or the game against South Africa in 98. Platini has never had this kind of loss of control.

  16. #66
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    Palmarès:

    * Champion d'Europe des nations : 1984, avec la France A
    * Deux demi-finales de Coupe du monde (4e 1982; 3e 1986)
    * Quart de finaliste aux Jeux Olympiques de 1976
    * Coupe intercontinentale des nations (trophée Artemio Franchi): 1985, avec la France A
    * Coupe d'Europe des clubs champions : 1985, avec la Juventus
    * Coupe d'Europe des vainqueurs de coupes : 1984, avec la Juventus
    * Coupe intercontinentale : 1985, avec la Juventus
    * Supercoupe d'Europe : 1984, avec la Juventus
    * Champion de France : 1981, avec Saint-Étienne
    * Champion d'Italie : 1984 et 1986 avec la Juventus
    * Coupe de France : 1978, avec AS Nancy (et deux finales perdues avec Saint-Etienne)
    * Coupe d'Italie : 1983, avec la Juventus
    * Mundialito des Clubs : 1983 avec la Juventus
    * Champion de France de division 2 : 1975 avec l'AS Nancy


    Distinctions individuelles

    * Champion des champions français L'Equipe en 1977 et 1984
    * Ballon d'or: 1983, 1984 et 1985
    * Onze d'or: 1983, 1984 et 1985
    * Onze d'argent: 1977
    * Meilleur joueur du championnat d'Europe 1984
    * Meilleur buteur du championnat d'Europe 1984 (9 réalisations)
    * Meilleur joueur de la coupe intercontinentale 1985
    * Meilleur buteur du championnat d'Italie: 1983, 1984 et 1985
    * Meilleur joueur du championnat d'Italie Guerin: 1984
    * Joueur français de l'année: 1976 et 1977
    * World Soccer awards: 1984 et 1985
    * Chevron awards: 1983 et 1985 (ratio buts/match)
    * Trophée d'argent du Centenaire de la League anglaise (meilleur joueur)
    * Entraîneur mondial de l'année World Soccer awards: 1991
    * Entraîneur européen de l'année El Pais
    * Prix Artémio Franchi: 2003
    * Nommé au FIFA 100 (Top 100 des meilleurs joueurs vivants de tous les temps) : 2004
    * Légion d'Honneur

    Statistiques

    * 72 sélections en équipe de France A (capitaine à cinquante reprises), pour 41 buts entre 1976 et 1987 (record d'autant plus remarquable qu'il jouait au milieu de terrain)
    * 104 buts toutes compétitions confondues avec la Juventus, record français de 1987 à 2005
    * 28 buts en coupes d'Europe de clubs
    * 52 matchs de coupes d'Europe de clubs
    * Sélection du siècle FIFA 1998
    * Joueur du siècle de la Juventus FC
    * Joueur français du siècle L'Equipe 2000

  17. #67
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Palmarès:


    * Meilleur buteur du championnat d'Italie: 1983, 1984 et 1985

    * 72 sélections en équipe de France A (capitaine à cinquante reprises), pour 41 buts entre 1976 et 1987 (record d'autant plus remarquable qu'il jouait au milieu de terrain)
    * 104 buts toutes compétitions confondues avec la Juventus, record français de 1987 à 2005
    * 28 buts en coupes d'Europe de clubs
    This is the most impressive and this is the main reason why Platini > Zidane. Platini is midfield number 10 and he was one of the best scorer of his era.

  18. #68
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    This is the most impressive and this is the main reason why Platini > Zidane. Platini is midfield number 10 and he was one of the best scorer of his era.
    Except that Zidane won the WC
    Except that Zidane led France to the Euro Cup 2 years after winning the WC

  19. #69
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    First of all France has been blessed for having 2 out of 3 best number 10 in history.

    Platini was a natural leader since he begun in Nancy, at 20 years old he was already the go to go guy, the technical, tactical leader and the coach. Zidane has accepted his leadership responsabilities later, the boss in 98 was Deschamps idem in 2000..
    I agree

    Platini was more decisive offensively. He had the capacity to take over games, Zidane was capable too but not at this level and this consistency.

    Regarding the vision of the game, giving the right guy at the right moment the opportunity to finalize it's a tossup but I'll give a slight advantage to Platini: he had eyes on his back.
    Zidane was more of playmaker than Platini; he was an occasional scorer, but his goals were timely.
    Platini was a great scorer with great playmaking abilities

    Regarding the vision: slight advantage to Zizou; just look at EDF matches without Zizou: Henry and Trezegol go AWOL
    If it wasn't for Zizou as a lance-missile....

    But again, hard to compare because they set up their teammates in different manners; Platini would set up his temmates with great long passes, while Zidane would get rid of 2 defendes with a roulette and have 2 open teammates on a 2 on 1 situation

    Finally for the clutch part, I'd go with Zidane for his two finalizations in WC final but also his finalization of the champions league final (2002).
    Yep

    What definately close the debate for me is self control, Zidane has always had craziness moments see WC 2006 or the game against South Africa in 98. Platini has never had this kind of loss of control.
    No debate

    But Zidane has Algerian blood; we are a bunch of psychos



    And when it came to dribbling abilities, it's safe to say that Zizou was better

  20. #70
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    Except that Zidane won the WC
    so did guivarch.

    Except that Zidane led France to the Euro Cup 2 years after winning the WC
    according to the fifa, henry was the best player.


  21. #71
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    so did guivarch.
    Damn

    according to the fifa, henry was the best player.

    It's FIFA; it's like trusting the NBA

  22. #72
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Messi is poised to have the same type of World Cup run that Maradona had in 1986...

    -the National team struggles during the CONMEBOL preliminaries... barely makes the World Cup... only to win it all because its star player, is playing quasar-level ball, and peaking at just the right time... Messi is that good.

    IMO Messi has a million times more class than Maradona though... he is by far the humbler player even though he is the planet's best player today... and for being a top 5 player during the last 5 years...
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  23. #73
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
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    Messi is poised to have the same type of World Cup run that Maradona had in 1986...

    -the National team struggles during the CONMEBOL preliminaries... barely makes the World Cup... only to win it all because its star player, is playing quasar-level ball, and peaking at just the right time... Messi is that good.

    IMO Messi has a million times more class than Maradona though... he is by far the humbler player even though he is the planet's best player today... and for being a top 5 player during the last 5 years...
    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers



    Where do you live ? I'm french and I'm living in Campinas since 2005, my contract will expire end of 2010.
    I'm living in Canada now

    Born and raised in Rio de Janeiro though, proud Tricolor Carioca Moved couple years ago. I wanna go back hoooome haha

  24. #74
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers
    That's what they said about Argentina before the '86 World Cup.... and then they won the tournament.

  25. #75
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers



    I'm living in Canada now

    Born and raised in Rio de Janeiro though, proud Tricolor Carioca Moved couple years ago. I wanna go back hoooome haha
    Where are you in Canada?

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