Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

[mogrovejo]

but you do not even associate immigrants to mexicans, remember ?

Why would I? I've met plenty of immigrants in my life, I'm one myself, but I doubt I've ever met more than a couple of mexican immigrants. What's your obsession with Mexicans? I mean, my open borders stance is valid for Mexicans, Americans, Frenchmen, Sudanese, whoever. I really don't feel the need to classify immigrants by nationality.

or is there another version of this post in some other universe that you are going to repost ?

What? Why do you keep suggesting I repost different versions? Because you accused me of being racist after I wrote:

Not necessarily true. Too many public goods to free-ride.

and

No, the government shouldn't have the power to prevent people from crossing borders

?

And now you can't apologize and reckon your accusation was completely baseless?

[rjv]

Why would I? I've met plenty of immigrants in my life, I'm one myself, but I doubt I've ever met more than a couple of mexican immigrants. What's your obsession with Mexicans? I mean, my open borders stance is valid for Mexicans, Americans, Frenchmen, Sudanese, whoever. I really don't feel the need to classify immigrants by nationality.

yes, because lord knows we have a real problem with all those sudanese immigrants crossing over to arizona !

What? Why do you keep suggesting I repost different versions? Because you accused me of being racist after I wrote:

hey king of "that's not what i said", maybe you should reread. i stated that it was a racist and erroneous inference.

And now you can't apologize and reckon your accusation was completely baseless?

really, you think people should apologize for baseless accusations? as admiral stated, some people's consciousness just can not register irony.

[mogrovejo]

hey king of "that's not what i said", maybe you should reread. i stated that it was a racist and erroneous inference.

Can you explain why? Can you explain why saying that job opportunities isn't the only factor behind migration movements and that the existence of welfare system and how strong they are plays a role is "a racist and erroneous inference"?

Because what I said is pretty much consensual in scientific literature. So, can you explain or not?

[jack sommerset]

People are really being pricks because they donot want their ID's checked. They say it's racial profiling, you can't trust the police (the gestapo), they call people "racist" who agree with the law and want to punish everyone is Arizona for passing this law. They are so stupid and crying so hard they want to punish Arizona tea!!!! A company out of New York.

Now they are being disingenuous coming up with different solutions like stronger borders, hitting the employers in there wallets perhaps arresting them. Well, duh. Hopefully we get there but we all know the same people will go ape over that too.

This is a very, very simple begining and it's getting all this bull . Most people fighting this law want them all legalized.

[admiralsnackbar]

Now they are being disingenuous coming up with different solutions like stronger borders, hitting the employers in there wallets perhaps arresting them. Well, duh. Hopefully we get there but we all know the same people will go ape over that too.

The people who will go ape in that situation are employers of s. What you're missing is that the people who would be affected by these laws are the ones ing. I'm all for immigration reform, but this law is bull because I'm an American and I'm brown.

[jack sommerset]

The people who will go ape in that situation are employers of s. What you're missing is that the people who would be affected by these laws are the ones ing. I'm all for immigration reform, but this law is bull because I'm an American and I'm brown.

You don't think the illegals will going ape when they lose their jobs? Are you kidding me? I guess they will cross back over the border when they can't get a job.

I'm not missing anything. People are going to the well one more time, old faithful, the race card line. When in doubt, cry RACIST. Read the law and get back to me.

[admiralsnackbar]

You don't think the illegals will going ape when they lose their jobs? Are you kidding me? I guess they will cross back over the border when they can't get a job.

I'm not missing anything. People are going to the well one more time, old faithful, the race card line. When in doubt, cry RACIST. Read the law and get back to me.

The illegals have no legislative voice.

[jack sommerset]

The illegals have no legislative voice.

Just going to throw that out there.

I say bull . This is not racial profiling. So why are people mad? Are they just stupid? Read the law and get back to me.

[ChumpDumper]

Let's see if you can understand this:

1 - The biggest factor behind migration movements are the existence of employment opportunities.

2 - However, it's not the only one: the existence of strong welfare systems is another one, impacting the migration at a quan ative/qualitative level.

Ok, if the employment opportunities are somehow completely taken away, how would that qualitatively and quan atively affect illegal immigration?

[admiralsnackbar]

Just going to throw that out there.

I say bull . This is not racial profiling. So why are people mad? Are they just stupid? Read the law and get back to me.

I, along with several million people, HAVE already read the law. That's the point, holmes.

[jack sommerset]

I, along with several million people, HAVE already read the law. That's the point, holmes.

So you know they can not ask for a ID because of your skin color. So what's the problem, holmes?

[mogrovejo]

Ok, if the employment opportunities are somehow completely taken away, how would that qualitatively and quan atively affect illegal immigration?

Pretty sure it'd severely reduce the number of immigrants and that reduction would affect disproportionately the qualified ones (so, from a qualitative perspective, one should expect a decrease in the average qualifications of the immigrants). Don't you agree?

[admiralsnackbar]

So you know they can not ask for a ID because of your skin color. So what's the problem, holmes?

The problem is that "legal contact" means anything an officer wants it to, and you have to be naive to think an officer promising they won't pull me over because I'm brown will actually amount to their not doing so.

[jack sommerset]

The problem is that "legal contact" means anything an officer wants it to, and you have to be naive to think an officer promising they won't pull me over because I'm brown will actually amount to their not doing so.

No it doesn't.

[admiralsnackbar]

No it doesn't.

ok

[ChumpDumper]

Pretty sure it'd severely reduce the number of immigrants and that reduction would affect disproportionately the qualified ones (so, from a qualitative perspective, one should expect a decrease in the average qualifications of the immigrants). Don't you agree?

It would severely reduce the number of illegal immigrants according to you?

Great.

Let's get to work on that. I don't care about how qualified the remaining illegal immigrants are. They are illegal immigrants.

[ChumpDumper]

So you know they can not ask for a ID because of your skin color.

So when can they?

[v2freak]

Although ChumpDumper only provides caustic one liners and counter arguments to what people have said, I do agree with him that the best way to go after immigration is to attack the incentives for illegal immigrants coming here. Punishing employers seems to be the best method. I think ChumpDumper said this somewhere on page 6 when asked.

Though, I understand the move here by Arizona. Sometimes in Poker is takes someone else to raise for you to stop checking every time it's your turn. Arizona was sick of what was happening to its state and did something about it.

[Winehole23]

I love that you're ting on the one guy who has your back. Payaso.

mogrovejo's rather weak grasp of the determinate context of the conversation apparently also extends to its social dimension, his dire emphasis on politeness totally notwithstanding.

[Winehole23]

ok

Conservative bona fides in the effectiveness of government seems to return with a fiery passion whenever the issue is growing LE bureaucracies.

[jack sommerset]

New immigration bill old hat for 'Sheriff Joe'

Want to know what Arizona's new immigration law will look like in practice? Just ask Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He and his deputies have been stopping people and asking for evidence of their immigration status for years.

"It's not that big of a deal," he told The Associated Press in an interview. "I've been doing it all this time. I didn't see anyone boycotting the state."

Arizona's sweeping new law mirrors many of the policies Arpaio has put into place in the Valley, where he set up a hot line for the public to report immigration violations, conducts crime and immigration sweeps in heavily Latino neighborhoods and frequently raids workplaces for people in the U.S. illegally.

While Arpaio has long come under fire for policies many see as racist, he was surprised at the national outrage over Arizona's new law, which makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they're illegal immigrants.

"That law is something we've always been doing anyway," Arpaio said. "The cops could have been doing this. They've always had the inherent authority. We're just the only ones who've been doing it."

Current law in Arizona and most states doesn't require police to ask about the immigration status of those they encounter, and some police officials say allowing such questions would deter immigrants from cooperating in other investigations.

President Barack Obama has questioned the legality of the new Arizona law, and civil rights leaders are calling for the rest of the nation to boycott Arizona, saying the law may lead to racial profiling.

The law is set to take effect in late July, but it likely won't change life much in Phoenix and its surrounding suburbs.

Since early 2008, Arpaio has run 15 crime and immigration sweeps, including one last weekend in Phoenix that led to the arrest of dozens of illegal immigrants. He sends as many as 200 deputies and volunteer posse members into a designated locale to set up a mobile command post and seek out traffic violators, people wanted on criminal warrants and others.

Critics say his deputies pull people over for minor traffic infractions because of the color of their skin so they can ask them for their proof of citizenship.

Arpaio denies allegations of racial profiling, saying people are stopped if deputies have probable cause to believe they've committed crimes and that it's only afterward that deputies find many of them are illegal immigrants.

Arpaio also has used a controversial interpretation of a state law to arrest more than 2,000 illegal immigrants since 2006. Under the law — as interpreted by former Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas — illegal immigrants can be arrested and prosecuted for conspiracy to smuggle themselves into the country. The law's authors intended it to be used to prosecute often-violent smugglers, not the immigrants being smuggled.

Arpaio, who calls himself "America's toughest sheriff," hasn't backed down, despite a federal investigation. For more than a year, the U.S. Justice Department has been investigating Arpaio's office for alleged discrimination and for uncons utional searches and seizures. Although the federal agency won't provide any details on its probe, Arpaio said the inquiry is focused on his immigration efforts.

While "Sheriff Joe" gets attention for his immigration policies, many know him for making inmates wear pink underwear and eat a green bologna diet, creating old-time chain gangs and cracking down on parents who don't pay child support. Arpaio had his own TV show, "Smile ... You're Under Arrest!" on Fox Reality Channel, and some of his female deputies currently are on TLC's "Police Women of Maricopa County."

But with Republican Gov. Jan Brewer now leading Arizona's illegal immigration fight, it's unclear what Arpaio's next move will be.

Arpaio discounted a run for governor on Monday.

"I have come so far and accomplished so much in the past 18 years as sheriff that to leave now just doesn't make sense," Arpaio said in a statement announcing his decision. "Right now, we are standing in the cross-hairs of history in this state and as sheriff of the most populous county in Arizona, there is much work yet to do."

State Sen. Russell Pearce, a Mesa Republican and the author of Arizona's new immigration legislation, is a former top deputy under Arpaio and a supporter of the sheriff's efforts.

"You're not going to take away Joe Arpaio's poster-boy image of the icon of what ought to be right in America — enforcing our laws, making our neighborhoods safer," he said.

"I'm sure he'll still be more aggressive than others because he's actually committed to doing this."

Arpaio's term as sheriff is up in two years, and his campaign committee, Re-Elect Joe Arpaio 2012, has collected nearly $2.3 million. Donations have come in from every state in the nation.

Arpaio told The Associated Press as recently as January that he planned to run for sheriff again but later danced around the subject as he contemplated the governor's race.

Arpaio "certainly has a shrewd mind for publicity," said Larry DeGaris, an associate professor of marketing at the University of Indianapolis. "He knows what gets press and he isn't shy about promoting it. If politics don't work out for him, he's probably got a future as host of the 'Sheriff Joe Show.'"

[Fpoonsie]

Could anybody else not read "Sheriff Joe"'s comments W/O adding the good ol' boy twang to it?

Also, how to you "boycott Arizona"?

[ChumpDumper]

So this has been going on in Maricopa County all this time and there are still illegal immigrants there?

Shocking.

[jack sommerset]

So this has been going on in Maricopa County all this time and there are still illegal immigrants there?

Shocking.

See, nothing to worry about. The law is a tiny step towards real reform.

[ChumpDumper]

See, nothing to worry about. The law is a tiny step towards real reform.

See, it's a waste of time and money.