How would a prime Olajuwon fare against a prime Duncan?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

"In my 20 years in the NBA, Duncan is the best big to play the game," says former Houston Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy. " O'Neal always had the benefit of a dominant perimeter player, from [Penny] Hardaway to [Kobe] Bryant to [Dwyane] Wade. Duncan has had very good players, but he's never had that dominant player, so that's why I give him the edge."


"Since the ABA/NBA merger, only four stars have been that consistently successful for a 10-year span: Bird, Magic, MJ and Shaq ... although I hesitate to put Shaq on that level because he's had six different teams get swept over the course of his career. But that's the list. Superstars like Kareem (nine playoff wins TOTAL in the four seasons before Magic arrived), David Robinson (never made a Finals before Duncan arrived), Hakeem Olajuwon (wildly unsuccessful for most of his prime), Patrick Ewing (played in only one Finals in his prime), Charles Barkley (ditto) and Karl Malone (played in four conference finals, never won a le) couldn't match Duncan's winning consistency over a 10-year period. " - Bill Simmons

According to JVG Luther Head, Rafer Alston, John Lucas III are all better than Kill Bill Spanoulis.

I am sorry but the opinions of JVG on how good one player is compare to another cannot be taken seriously. This comments about Duncan is better than Hakeem and Shaq is more proof of this.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

For all those saying Duncan is better than Olajuwon, then you're saying that Duncan is better than the Admiral, David Robinson. The League MVP picked over Hakeem. From which Hakeem was really pissed off for being slighted and proceeded in the next matchup between DRob and Hakeem, to completely dismantal the Admiral.

I don't think Duncan is even better than a prime David Robinson.

Duncan is better than Robinson. Robinson was too soft.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Jordan won 6 as the number one option.
Jabbar won 4
Duncan 4.
Who has more than Duncan as the man?
Shaq had 3.
Magic had 2.
Bird had 3.

This is wrong. Spurs number 1 option in 2005 playoffs was Manu and in 2007 playoffs was Parker. This does not discredit Duncan but what you say is just not true.

Duncan 2 championships as number 1 option and not 4.

[MaNu4Tres]

This is wrong. Spurs number 1 option in 2005 playoffs was Manu and in 2007 playoffs was Parker. This does not discredit Duncan but what you say is just not true.

Duncan 2 championships as number 1 option and not 4.

No you are wrong.

2005 Playoffs- http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/...avg=pg&split=0

2007 Playoffs - http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/...avg=pg&split=0

Parker just exploded in a couple games offensively in the 2007 Finals. Duncan still was the leader and foundation on both ends throughout the playoffs.

[Mr.Robinson]

This is wrong. Spurs number 1 option in 2005 playoffs was Manu and in 2007 playoffs was Parker. This does not discredit Duncan but what you say is just not true.

Duncan 2 championships as number 1 option and not 4.

LOL Please go.

[kingmalaki]

How am I reaching? Jordan was the dominant force of the 90s; Olajuwon never got to, let alone beat, Jordan. O'Neal/Bryant were the other dominant force of the 00s; Duncan beat them twice. This is fact; not opinion.

So Duncan doesn't get credit for beating O'Neal/Bryant in '99 because Bryant was still a "pup", but Olajuwon get's credit for beating O'Neal in '95; as if O'Neal wasn't a "pup"? Both Bryant and O'Neal were in their third seasons at the time both of these occurred, but only one has significance because it suits your argument? You just lost all credibility.

You are reaching because your argument boils down to "Hakeem didn't beat Jordan". Duncan didn't either, and the 99 le opened up because MJ retired. The dominant force that he has a losing record against don't top Jordan either. Arguing about dominant forces makes no sense if the forces aren't equal. Is winning the heavyweight le today have the same impact as winning it when Tyson or Ali were around?

It's also dumb because the dominant force of the 90s was a peak Shaq, peak Kobe and PHIL JACKSON. Are you arguing Kobe was that great in 99? As great as Shaq in 95? Now they all were there in 03 when Duncan finally got through, to offset the other 3 times they beat him.

It's also dumb because if you are using a dominant force argument, then Hakeem did beat the dominant force of the 80s, Magic and LA. Magic and his team are also considered better than the dominant force Duncan beat.

So yes a silly argument in all ways.

[Mr.Robinson]

You are reaching because your argument boils down to "Hakeem didn't beat Jordan". Duncan didn't either, and the 99 le opened up because MJ retired. The dominant force that he has a losing record against don't top Jordan either. Arguing about dominant forces makes no sense if the forces aren't equal. Is winning the heavyweight le today have the same impact as winning it when Tyson or Ali were around?

It's also dumb because the dominant force of the 90s was a peak Shaq, peak Kobe and PHIL JACKSON. Are you arguing Kobe was that great in 99? As great as Shaq in 95? Now they all were there in 03 when Duncan finally got through, to offset the other 3 times they beat him.

It's also dumb because if you are using a dominant force argument, then Hakeem did beat the dominant force of the 80s, Magic and LA. Magic and his team are also considered better than the dominant force Duncan beat.

So yes a silly argument in all ways.

The lakers were good in 86 but it was the first season with a different core. Wilkes was gone and McAdoo was too.
Nostalgia is a mother er.

[hitmanyr2k]

No way in HEELLL! are players more skilled now.

You obviously don't know what "skill" means. Players are more athletic, but guess what.....Stromile Swift was one of the most athletic players in the league. What he lacked was any skill what so ever.

Hakeem's era was LOADED with skilled players....players that had something like I don't know....footwork and post moves, as well as players that had mid range game/ jumpers, and they had much greater basketball IQs overall as well.

Today's league and Duncan's era was one of the worst low basketball IQ eras of alltime. (There's a reason why he got the nickname "The big fundelmental", he was one of the few players that had throw back skills) When a guy like Luis Scola can come into the league and display footwork that's better than the vast majority of the players in the league today and a of alot better than players that are considered "elite big men", then something is obviously wrong with the NBA's "skill level".

Dude seriously, the more I read your posts, the more I'm convinced that you either didn't watch the NBA back in the day or were too young to remember it. The "skill level" in today's league is severely lacking or just watered down due to expansion....either way it sucks. There's a reason why Stern wanted to force kids to go to college and it wasn't just because he was worried about kids missing out on the "college experience"...his product was being hurt. They should just go ahead and make a 3 year post graduation minimum and get it over with.

100% truth

[wekko368]

The lakers were good in 86 but it was the first season with a different core. Wilkes was gone and McAdoo was too.

Different core? Wilkes and McAdoo were their 5th and 8th leading scorers in 1985, and both came off the bench. Neither were what I'd consider to be a crucial loss.

You're really going with a "different core" argument? Really?

[Mr.Robinson]

Different core? Wilkes and McAdoo were their 5th and 8th leading scorers in 1985, and both came off the bench. Neither were what I'd consider to be a crucial loss.

You're really going with a "different core" argument? Really?

Just pointing it out. Rockets beating the 86 lakers<Spurs beating the three time defending Lakers.

[Mr.Robinson]

I get really sick of hearing Rocket fan about how weak Olajuwon's supporting casts were and how that excuses everything in the early 90s and then have him go on and disrespect Duncan for not being able to beat one of the great dynasties in NBA history with a starting lineup featuring Terry Porter on his last legs, Antonio Daniels 6'4" ass trying to guard Kobe, Danny Ferry, and a way past his prime Robinson in 01. And then in 02, a rookie Tony Parker who couldn't finish at the rim, a Steve Smith who had regressed to the point of worthlessness in the 2 years since he was a decent weapon for Portland, Bruce Bowen, and Mark Bryant for 2 games / a David Robinson who could barely walk the final 3.

They're bias as . The whole Hakeem dominated Robinson in the 95 series is garbage too. I don't think they watched the series. They forget the Rockets hacked the out of Robinson. A nice player like Robinson will play like when he is getting abused. He won't retaliate or anything. That threw Robinson out of his game. Hakeem was in foul trouble all series long. Jones would just go in there to hack. Horry was fouling. They doubled DROB a lot. Hakeem was mainly played by DROB. When Rodman was on Hakeem he didn't even try. DROB had no help and he wilted under pressure. Despite playing like he still got to the line at will. Hakeem was better than Robinson because of this. The will to play when the gets rough. Robinson was too nice for that.
Now to Duncan. Hakeem doesn't have this advantage over Duncan. When got tough Duncan got tougher.
Stats will favor Hakeem because of pace. Hakeem's teams in the 80's would average 112+ practically every year. The pace was way faster. More points, rebounds, blocks, steals. So stop bringing up stats.

[djohn2oo8]

They're bias as . The whole Hakeem dominated Robinson in the 95 series is garbage too. I don't think they watched the series. They forget the Rockets hacked the out of Robinson. A nice player like Robinson will play like when he is getting abused. He won't retaliate or anything. That threw Robinson out of his game. Hakeem was in foul trouble all series long. Jones would just go in there to hack. Horry was fouling. They doubled DROB a lot. Hakeem was mainly played by DROB. When Rodman was on Hakeem he didn't even try. DROB had no help and he wilted under pressure. Despite playing like he still got to the line at will. Hakeem was better than Robinson because of this. The will to play when the gets rough. Robinson was too nice for that.
Now to Duncan. Hakeem doesn't have this advantage over Duncan. When got tough Duncan got tougher.
Stats will favor Hakeem because of pace. Hakeem's teams in the 80's would average 112+ practically every year. The pace was way faster. More points, rebounds, blocks, steals. So stop bringing up stats.

Ok, I can't tell if you're joking or not, but look in the mirror bro...The Rockets hacked the out of Robinson? Get tha out of here!!!

[wekko368]

Just pointing it out. Rockets beating the 86 lakers<Spurs beating the three time defending Lakers.

That Lakers team won the le in 1985, 1987, and 1988; they had the 2nd best record in the league in 1986.

In my opinion, the Spurs/Rockets victories were on par with each other.

[Mr.Robinson]

Ok, I can't tell if you're joking or not, but look in the mirror bro...The Rockets hacked the out of Robinson? Get tha out of here!!!

They played very physical with him.

[djohn2oo8]

They played very physical with him.

[Booharv]

Everyone keeps pointing out the common battles they had versus Shaq. Most of the Spurs fans are leaving out one crucial detail (probably because its crippling to their case) Duncan and Shaq never guarded each other from 1999 to 2004. Robinson always guarded Shaq and vice versa. Even in 2004 Malone guarded Duncan. The only time I can remember Shaq guarding Duncan was game 6 of the 2003 WCSF from the third quarter to the end of the game. Olajuwon went heads up with Ewing, Shaq, and Robinson and dominated them all in 1994-95.

[Mr.Robinson]

Laugh all you want but Robinson was bothered by it. Main reason he just crumbled under pressure. He had turnovers when nobody was near him. He played scared and the Rockets being physical did it. Did you watch the series?

[Mr.Robinson]

Everyone keeps pointing out the common battles they had versus Shaq. Most of the Spurs fans are leaving out one crucial detail (probably because its crippling to their case) Duncan and Shaq never guarded each other from 1999 to 2004. Robinson always guarded Shaq and vice versa. Even in 2004 Malone guarded Duncan. The only time I can remember Shaq guarding Duncan was game 6 of the 2003 WCSF from the third quarter to the end of the game. Olajuwon went heads up with Ewing, Shaq, and Robinson and dominated them all in 1994-95.

Shaq wass guarded by Duncan a lot. Robinson and Rose guarded him most of the time. Hakeem never dominated Shaq.

[djohn2oo8]

Shaq wass guarded by Duncan a lot. Robinson and Rose guarded him most of the time. Hakeem never dominated Shaq.

[Booharv]

Shaq wass guarded by Duncan a lot. Robinson and Rose guarded him most of the time. Hakeem never dominated Shaq.

Duncan only guarded Shaq when Robinson was in foul trouble or on a switch. Even when Robinson got in foul trouble, like you said Rose, but also Kevin Willis or Will Perdue guarded Shaq. Rarely Duncan because of the worry of foul trouble. Its not the same, and Hakeem outscored Shaq in every game of the Finals and it got progressively worse as it went on. He scored 30+ in every game of that Sweep. Even ing Shaq admits Hakeem kicked his ass.

[Booharv]

"If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it] ... I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt."

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/read...rformance.html

Shaq states that after that series was one of the only two times in his life he's cried, the other being after the death of his grandmother. Shaq didn't play bad, but he was outclassed.

[MaNu4Tres]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/read...rformance.html

Shaq states that after that series was one of the only two times in his life he's cried, the other being after the death of his grandmother. Shaq didn't play bad, but he was outclassed.

You fail to realize, Shaq of 1995 wasn't close to as dominant as Shaq of 1998-2003. That's a fact jack..

So to imply Shaq of 95'= Shaq during the time Duncan had to go through him 5 times isn't comparable.

[Mr.Robinson]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/read...rformance.html

Shaq states that after that series was one of the only two times in his life he's cried, the other being after the death of his grandmother. Shaq didn't play bad, but he was outclassed.

He cried after the Spurs stopped the three peat. He left with a towel on his face. He didn't talk to reporters either. He will never admit to crying against the Spurs with Robinson and Duncan. He hated DROB he respected Hakeem.

[Mr.Robinson]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/read...rformance.html

Shaq states that after that series was one of the only two times in his life he's cried, the other being after the death of his grandmother. Shaq didn't play bad, but he was outclassed.

Shaq 98-04>Shaq of 95

[Booharv]

You fail to realize, Shaq of 1995 wasn't close to as dominant as Shaq of 1998-2003. That's a fact jack..

So to imply Shaq of 95'= Shaq during the time Duncan had to go through him 5 times isn't comparable.

Statistically he was nearly identical if you look at the PER and other numbers (scoring, rebounding, shot blocking) he was a better rebounder and shot blocker when he was younger. His rookie year was his best season as a rebounder and shot blocker. I would argue he got better teammates and played in an awful era for center compared to when he was young. He was slightly better but not enough to make up for the dropoff in compe ion.

Besides if Shaq was too slow to guard Hakeem when he was young, what makes think adding 40 lbs is going to help?