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Dan you're reminding me of that commercial with the drill sargent as a counselor...you're not making me feel better.
We have 25 years of absolutely no military threat to our sovereignty and yet we are rapidly approaching the debt levels of WWII.
We also didn't have as many unfunded responsibilities in the late forties.
Do you forsee a period of economic growth over the next 50 years which exceeds the multiple of the last 50-60 years?
Dan you're reminding me of that commercial with the drill sargent as a counselor...you're not making me feel better.
We have 25 years of absolutely no military threat to our sovereignty and yet we are rapidly approaching the debt levels of WWII.
Oh and werent taxes considerably higher back then?
"Considerably" doesnt even begin to convey the proper gravity.
According to this link (maybe not a great source)...
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
In 1931 the top echelon of earners paid a maximum 25% of income in taxes.
In 1932, that number jumped to 63% and increases evermore to a maxmium of 94% in 1944. It was still at 91% in 1963.
Obviously, the tax code was very different then and even the prelude to the link states that the chart doesnt include deductions. Deductions at the time could have been far more generous and easy to come by then as opposed to now.
Still...
94%?!
Yeah, that is what I am saying. I guess the only way to do an apples to apples comparison is to find out what percentage of GDP the Federal Government actually took in as revenue.
Right now, it is about 14% right?
What era are we in? It depends on what you believe I suppose...I fore-see technology doing incredible things in the coming generation that could spark unprecedented economic possibilities in many industries....but it all depends on how it is used by business and American multinationals in particular because as we've seen in the last 30 years, technology can be a double edged sword...
The debt is a problem and will become more of a problem if we don't get the economy generating an increasing amount of tax revenue....but you don't curb spending and consumer demand during a period of high-unemployment, although one can argue that historically, 9.8% is only moderately high, but that's a topic for another thread...
"9.8% is only moderately high"
feds have been lying for a couple decades, changing how they count unemployed. The real rate is about 22%.
Still waiting for right-wingers to tell us how, specifically, to get the economy going when the Repugs and Astro-turf tea bagging freaks storm Congress in November.
Damn, even campaign promises (lies) would do. But they ain't got nothing except destroy social security/medicare/medicaid and cut taxes for the corps and oligarchy.
I actually agree with Bouton's on one thing. They are definitely fudging the unemployment numbers. REAL unemployment is probably 15% and if you include underemployment (people that took part time jobs because they couldn't get full time) Probably closer to 25%.
How they can count someone as not unemployed (yet not employed) just because their unemployment benefits finally expired after 2 years is ing beyond me.
It's virtually impossible for a kid with only a high school education to get a full time job.
Even worse is how someone who wants a job but has "quit looking" is considered not unemployed.
America is ing fraud, is ed, is un able.
and the Repugs will continue to it more whether they win in Nov or not.
Yep. Obama & Co are fudging the numbers so that they don't have to acknowledge a double digit unemployment number.
Boutons, why can't you just be intellectually honest and write "politicians of both parties" instead of Repugs?
SURELY you don't think the Democrat trash is any better?
Yeah I get the concept, government spending money it doesn't have to fill in the gap until the american people come to their senses and start spending the money they don't have again. I just don't think it's going to work.
Damn, that was profound. Well said.
I think regular people are done with buying on credit. That false easy credit boom economy is over and it ain't coming back. Virtually everyone I know including me is working a plan to be totally debt free ASAP.
Good plan. I got totally debt free around two years ago. Not because I'm smart and saw anything coming, I just happened across Dave Ramsey's radio show 4-5 years ago and thought that makes sense. Life is much better when your debt free. We save alot but when we want something we just buy it and we don't have any stress over making the bills. Also there's no stress over losing a job or anything now because we know we can at least get by for a couple of years even without any income.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're touching up the numbers a bit, but 25%? 1 in 4 americans without a job? Sounds exaggerated.
At least that's definitely not the case around here in Jersey.
If your gonna look at it that way, then unemployment and underemployment numbers have been fudged since well before Obama came into office...but some of it is understandable...why should people who quit looking for work be counted against a unemployment number? If you've been out of work for more than two years, even in this economy, it's not because you can't find a job, it's because you can't find a job that your willing to accept for the salary that the employer is paying....
....the clog in the system is the Bush tax cuts shifting disposable income from the poor and middle class to the very rich...and the rich aren't out there creating jobs like the GOP promised would happen, they are speculating in derivatives in the stock market driving up the prices of commodities like Gold, Silver, energy ...and hoarding cash like CC.....
Good for him, so am I. You can complain about how it messes up your idea of how the economy should work all you want. everyone else, I'm taking care of me and mine. Like I said to DR, it's the patriotic thing to do.
Hoarding cash won't do you any good if the dollar gets devalued in a hyper-inflationary crisis. It's definitely a good idea to be debt-free, but you should diversify that cash into some dollar-proof assets. Gold maybe? Swiss Francs?
I'm not concerned about hyper-inflation. In a nuts , I think all of the govt spending has only provided a temporary pause in our deflationary crisis. When we lose our grip on the govt provided ledge we can get back to falling off the cliff. Then when we hit the bottom there will be excellent buying opportunities for those with cash on hand. My goal is to be one of those with cash on hand.
If I'm right I'll have the opportunity make some good money on the misfortune of others, if you're right and we are into any kind of real recovery then all I've lost is making some money now. I don't see hyper-inflation around the corner so I'm not concerned with protecting myself from that. Longer term perhaps I will but not now.
Be careful about that. If we were to hit rock bottom, then we would get to a deflationary spiral, which means the central bank wouldn't have enough liquidity to counter deflation, and the almost immediate reaction is to print more money and as a byproduct devalue the currency, which in turn normally ends in hyperinflation.
Now you're the one describing a doomsday scenario. One that I don't see happening. You say "normally ends in hyperinflation", do you have any historical examples which are similar to the US's current state?
As far as I know Japan's struggle with deflation since the 90's is most similar to our situation as far as I can tell and their big budget deficits, high debt, & expansion of the monetary base has only led to more deflation.
Well, a spiraling and continuing deflation is already a doomsday scenario. Specially for this country, who lives on credit.
As far as Japan, as salaries fall faster than prices, it's going to get to a point where people are going to really start asking government to 'do something'.
IMO, they're a ticking time bomb, and sooner or later they're going to have to do something about it. That something might not end in hyperinflation, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.
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