Message From Above

[HarlemHeat37]

Their peak is a top 7-8 defensive team, which would be fine, if everybody is healthy, since there are enough offensive weapons for this team..teams don't need an elite D to win the le, they need an elite balance..

Hopefully they can reach that peak..

[200 miles]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..

The only way they have any chance is if they play D like they did against LA on a consistent basis, which is with a lot of energy + swarming, but they don't have the focus to do that on a consistent basis, and it's easier vs. teams like LA, since their shooters aren't scary..

Duncan: good defender, but liability vs. fast teams..
McDyess: above average defender..
Bonner: below average defender..
Blair: average post defender, horrible everywhere else..
Splitter: above average defender, but doesn't get PT, partly due to his poor offense..
Manu: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Parker: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Hill: slightly above average defender..
RJ: average defender..
Neal: average defender..
Anderson: showed flashes of being an above average defender..

The defensive talent isn't there to be a legit top 5 defensive team..then you add the "fit", which makes it even worse..

Duncan is the only rim protector, he's no longer good enough to make up for the perimeter D and the secondary big's deficiencies..he can be exploited by certain quick teams, leaving no other rim protector..

None of the Spurs defenders can run through screens properly..

Blair's defensive IQ is extremely low, and he's a starter..

Manu, TP and Hill gamble a lot, they're often out of position..

The Spurs are a pretty good defensive team when it comes to defending slow teams or teams that don't shoot a lot of 3s, and teams that don't run a lot of screens and move the ball too much..

The D has to be better either way, but the Spurs don't match up very well vs. Orlando, Miami and Boston for these reasons IMO..defensively, if they improve like they should(even with their limited ceiling on D), they should still be able to compete with LA/Dallas, hopefully..

Imagine what the team's post defense would look like if Bonner and Splitter's roles were reversed in Pop's eyes.

[jag]

I don't recall a season in the Duncan era where the Spurs started so poorly defensively and had improve this dramatically. Last year I don't recall the Spurs defense getting better or worse from beginning to end but I do recall Duncan's performance degrading, which definitely hurt the interior defense of the team.

The personnel probably won't change, so you're going to see similar lineups come March. Where you can expect to see a change is in the defensive chemistry. To say they look out of sync is an understatement. There's no reason to assume the chemistry will regress over the course of the season.

[mingus]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..

The only way they have any chance is if they play D like they did against LA on a consistent basis, which is with a lot of energy + swarming, but they don't have the focus to do that on a consistent basis, and it's easier vs. teams like LA, since their shooters aren't scary..

Duncan: good defender, but liability vs. fast teams..
McDyess: above average defender..
Bonner: below average defender..
Blair: average post defender, horrible everywhere else..
Splitter: above average defender, but doesn't get PT, partly due to his poor offense..

Manu: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Parker: average defender, good at picking up steals..
Hill: slightly above average defender..
RJ: average defender..
Neal: average defender..
Anderson: showed flashes of being an above average defender..

The defensive talent isn't there to be a legit top 5 defensive team..then you add the "fit", which makes it even worse..

Duncan is the only rim protector, he's no longer good enough to make up for the perimeter D and the secondary big's deficiencies..he can be exploited by certain quick teams, leaving no other rim protector..

None of the Spurs defenders can run through screens properly..

Blair's defensive IQ is extremely low, and he's a starter..

Manu, TP and Hill gamble a lot, they're often out of position..

The Spurs are a pretty good defensive team when it comes to defending slow teams or teams that don't shoot a lot of 3s, and teams that don't run a lot of screens and move the ball too much..

The D has to be better either way, but the Spurs don't match up very well vs. Orlando, Miami and Boston for these reasons IMO..defensively, if they improve like they should(even with their limited ceiling on D), they should still be able to compete with LA/Dallas, hopefully..

I think you're underrating Parker. Parker has been great defensively for the majority of the season. RJ has shown that he can be very, very good. He played great D on Kevin Durant the other day. Hill, like RJ, has shown that he can very good. Neal has been average but at times he has looked good.

by the end of the year i think the Spurs get more consistent on that end. it pisses me off that Splitter isn't getting more PT, which doesn't help that cause.

[mexicanjunior]

?? Spurs teams never regress defensively as the season progresses no matter the personnel.

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

[ohmwrecker]

They can't wait until the 4th (or the last 3 min.) to crank up the D. Teams are gunning for them hard now. No more coasting. They have to take it up a level or they're toast.

[EricB]

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

They have. Their defense is always a work in progress during the season.

It always starts out mediocre from beginning through january, makes progress in february, march april it gets better.

[jag]

You drive a hard bargain, but a fair one. You have yourself a got damn deal.

Peskypesky is a raging lover of men

[ElNono]

we'll see. i agree and disagree. Hill and RJ have demonstrated 50% of the time that they improved greatly over last year defensively. Neal has impressed at times. Parker has ben great most of the year. there's enough of a sample size to see that the Spurs have the potential to be very good defensively--remember the second half in NO? or OKC the other day. great defense, then you have nights like in NY or tonight against Boston, where they look like defensively.

it's been on of the major issues for the Spurs this year is what kind of D will they bring. it's a ? going into every game.

It's tricky. The problem with the playoffs is that the pace slows down. A lot of Parker D has been racking up steals, and that's going to be less there with a slower pace. Neal, Hill and RJ are very inconsistent. Obviously, our offense masks a lot of that. When you score a lot, you put pressure on the other team to keep up and that has an effect on the other team offense. But against good teams that don't panic, it's just not going to cut it.
You also glossed over a guy like Bonner which gets significant minutes out there and is a liability.

We'll see sounds about right. I would like to be greatly surprised with at least having some consistency in the defensive production.

[ElNono]

I was referring more to the regular season. The Spurs were worn down by the time the Mavs series was over. It seemed like they put everything they had into beating the Mavs. Duncan looked pretty bad...they brutalized him on the PnR

It wasn't just that. Hill was abused by Nash, and we got murdered from the perimeter. And TD needs help. Dice can't play 48 mins either.

[Dex]

It's tricky. The problem with the playoffs is that the pace slows down. A lot of Parker D has been racking up steals, and that's going to be less there with a slower pace. Neal, Hill and RJ are very inconsistent. Obviously, our offense masks a lot of that. When you score a lot, you put pressure on the other team to keep up and that has an effect on the other team offense. But against good teams that don't panic, it's just not going to cut it.
You also glossed over a guy like Bonner which gets significant minutes out there and is a liability.

We'll see sounds about right. I would like to be greatly surprised with at least having some consistency in the defensive production.

Tonight was a prime example of what the playoffs will look like. Play a good team who takes care of the ball, doesn't take bad shots, and gets back in transition, and suddenly all those steals, outlet passes, and easy buckets aren't there for the picking.

Then, all you are left with is half court execution, and defense.

[mexicanjunior]

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

They have. Their defense is always a work in progress during the season.

It always starts out mediocre from beginning through january, makes progress in february, march april it gets better.

Their average "points allowed per game" and "opponent FG% allowed per game" has been this bad before in the Duncan era? If they have looked this poorly defensively after 35 games, I stand corrected.

[jag]

Spurs teams also never start the season this poorly defensively...things change with personnel adjustments and age. This is not a 1st Team All Defense Tim Duncan being helped on the perimeter by a stopper like Bruce Bowen. Can't just assume things anymore just because the names on the jerseys...

Duncan isn't the same but he's still a force in the middle. And Popovich is one constant throughout the TD era that you are forgetting.

[mexicanjunior]

The personnel probably won't change, so you're going to see similar lineups come March. Where you can expect to see a change is in the defensive chemistry. To say they look out of sync is an understatement. There's no reason to assume the chemistry will regress over the course of the season.

The ones that seem most lost (Blair, Hill, Bonner, Jefferson) have been here long enough to know where they should be on rotations. Unless Pop installed an all new defensive philosophy over the off-season, I don't see how players that have been here 1+ years are going to have the light switch come on.

[jag]

It wasn't just that. Hill was abused by Nash, and we got murdered from the perimeter. And TD needs help. Dice can't play 48 mins either.

Hill always gets abused by Nash. TP has always performed much better when it comes to nash because he constantly attacks Nash while on offense. Nash is just too smart and crafty for Hill.

I'm not really sure what it was against phoenix. They were just the better team and the Spurs weren't ready.

[jag]

The ones that seem most lost (Blair, Hill, Bonner, Jefferson) have been here long enough to know where they should be on rotations. Unless Pop installed an all new defensive philosophy over the off-season, I don't see how players that have been here 1+ years are going to have the light switch come on.

That's why it's probably safe to assume they will improve over time.

[Avitus1]

This thread brought to you by lakaluva's month long exile from the NBA forum.

Brilliant!

[Warlord23]

The difference between this Spurs team and earlier ones is:
1. Lack of a shutdown defender who can hound a good/great offensive player
2. A consistent shot-blocker/shot-changer (TD is OK but not an intimidator any more)

Without those two, you need to play a "swarming" type D - chase, collapse and rotate really fast and be able to recover the board at the end. A good example is the Miami Heat - they don't have elite shot blocking bigs, are bottom 5 in the NBA in steals and have a 0.0 turnover differential, but are ferocious in the halfcourt D.

Unfortunately, we haven't shown enough foot speed to rotate and cover shooters, and still be able to gather the board after a miss. But that is to be expected when the #2 big man in the rotation (by minutes) is Matt Bonner, and none of our swingmen are exceptionally quick to rotate and come back to gather boards.

[EricB]

It wasn't just that. Hill was abused by Nash, and we got murdered from the perimeter. And TD needs help. Dice can't play 48 mins either.

They got murdered by guys having career years in Fry and Dragic and Richardson.

[Capt Bringdown]

Spurs don't have the potential to be a top 5 defensive team, that's just silly..this was the main problem coming into the season, nothing has changed..

Yup, you cain't go nothing on poor soil. Duncan is not the player he used to be, Bonner, Blair & McMummy have their issues/deficiencies. Where did folks think the defense is supposed to come from? I don't think you can win a le on perimeter defense alone, and as you said, it's not there every night anyway.

Also on offense, the Celtics were missing their 2 best interior D pieces, Garnett & Perkins but did we notice?

[ElNono]

Hill always gets abused by Nash. TP has always performed much better when it comes to nash because he constantly attacks Nash on offense. Nash is just too smart and crafty for Hill.

I'm not really sure what it was against phoenix. They were just the better team and the Spurs weren't ready.

If we had this season's offense, we could have won at least a game or two, maybe the series. The reality though, is that the Lakers made quick work of them right afterwards.

[mexicanjunior]

Duncan isn't the same but he's still a force in the middle. And Popovich is one constant throughout the TD era that you are forgetting.

I love what Duncan has been for us through his career but I don't think we can contend with him being the only "force" in the middle. With no perimeter stopper and no reliable size to help Duncan guard the paint, it's hard to see a dramatic enough improvement from this team to believe they can raise their defensive level to championship caliber. Pop's coaching can only disguise their shortcomings so much...

[EricB]

If we had this season's offense, we could have won at least a game or two, maybe the series. The reality though, is that the Lakers made quick work of them right afterwards.

Put a healthy Parker in that series, one who would guard Nash, and I think the series is a little different.

Also bring Channing Frye back to earth...

[ElNono]

I love what Duncan has been for us through his career but I don't think we can contend with him being the only "force" in the middle. With no perimeter stopper and no reliable size to help Duncan guard the paint, it's hard to see a dramatic enough improvement from this team to believe they can raise their defensive level to championship caliber. Pop's coaching can only disguise their shortcomings so much...

I agree, and I point out again that even if Duncan and Dice would be playing D incredibly well, at some point you have to sit them down, and the guys behind them are very poor defenders. The dropoff is really, really big.

[jag]

Unless the Spurs have to deal with injuries, there's just no reason to think this defense won't be much improved once March rolls around.

Like HarlemHeat said earlier, the Spurs don't have to be an elite defensive team to contend for the le. They just need to be well balanced. They have a great offense, so if they can manage to end up in the top 7-10 teams in defense they'll be a tough team to beat.