NYTimes: Lack of Transmission Lines Is Restricting Wind Power

[Agloco]

Not at all. You are simply acting like Fuzzy. Attacking me instead of addressing the issue.

You are the issue, and I'm addressing you in appropriate fashion.

I'm sorry you don't see it.

Enlighten us. I'll ask again: On what scale are these perturbations occurring?

I asked if you understood it.

And I answered with a yes. What I'm wondering here is, do you?

Then read the two links I supplied earlier.

You mean the ones that make no mention of fluid dynamics other than upwelling? On what scale would this upwelling be occurring?

[Wild Cobra]

You are the issue,

LOL...

I'm the issue?

Really now. I start by asking a question because of my observation of nature over the years. I answer your question as to what I think would happen. I answer. I then find material that supports my assumption, and nothing that denies it.

I am then attacked with meaningless question about my abilities by people who cannot do anyone but attack the messenger, and I am the issue?

... You need to look in the mirror.

and I'm addressing you in appropriate fashion.

Really?

You think acting like a for no reason is appropriate?

Are you from the ghetto or something where people dis' each other all the time?

Enlighten us. I'll ask again: On what scale are these perturbations occurring?

Small scale. If you are smart enough to read between the lines, you can clearly see I clam no level of significance. I have never attempted to quantify the effect.

And I answered with a yes.

Liar.

What I'm wondering here is, do you?

I understand the basics. I never got involved beyond that. The basics are still enough to understand my claims.

Are you disagreeing with that?

You mean the ones that make no mention of fluid dynamics other than upwelling? On what scale would this upwelling be occurring?

I asked if you understood. I never said the article covered fluid dynamics. The basic flow of wind and restrictive nature of a windmill to the wind cons utes some fluid dynamics.

[Wild Cobra]

lol thinkprogress.

BTW, of the 14 states listed as examples of good clean energy stewardship in that bit of "analysis", 7 are R 7 are D.

.......

I final took the time to read the bouticle.

Anyway, I find it funny that Oregon never gets rated for clean energy, even though more than 80% of our electrical generation creates no nuclear waste or greenhouse gasses. We have hydroelectric dams and wind power.

[Wild Cobra]

in your wet dreams. TB

There is nothing red or blue about clean energy. Subsidies however...

[Wild Cobra]

Texas is just putting up all those windmills because they're for global warming!

/boutons, after being tutored by wild cobra on fluid dynamics

LOL...

Really now.

You know, one of the dozens of studies I read that acknowledge the warming effect downstream of a wind farm also provided a 1:6 ratio.

For every one part of warming the windmills caused, they saved six parts of warming from not generating electricity from sources that create greenhouse gasses.

Now, that of course, is assuming greenhouse gasses cause the warming claimed as well.

[Wild Cobra]

Transmission line capacity is a problem here in the Northwest as well. Some years back, they cancelled a wind farm project. They said there was too much wind. My initial thought was they couldn't engineer a strong enough windmill since the plans were to put it in the gorge, but maybe it has to do with wasting the power. I came across this article from last year:

link: Wind Turbines May Be Shut Down in Pacific Northwest; part of the article:

A record snowfall in the mountains at the headwaters of the Columbia river system is about to begin melting and will send a surge of water down the river. Because this water cannot be sent over the spill ways without endangering already endangered Salmon and Steelhead fish it needs to be run through the turbines. There is just too much power for the regional markets and the existing transmission infrastructure to handle and thus wind farms are likely to be idled.

The Pacific Northwest is running such a surplus of power from hydroelectric dams that it put wind farms on notice Friday they may be shut down as early as this weekend. This is the ill fruit of an outdated transmission network that is unable to move surplus power down to California’s hungry power markets.

There is a single High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) 500 kv transmission line — the Pacific DC Intertie — that has a 3.1 GW capacity and transmits electric power from the Pacific Northwest to the Los Angeles power market. Clearly that is not sufficient.

[Winehole23]

in Spain, otoh . . .

Over the last three months wind farms produced more electricity than any other power source in Spain for the first time ever, an industry group has said.


The country delivered over six terawatt hours of electricity from wind farms during January, according to data from grid operator Red Electrica de Espana, the Spanish Wind Energy Association said in a statement.


"Since November 1, wind has been the top technology in the electrical system," the group said in a blog posting. "The last time any technology exceeded six terawatt-hours of monthly generation was in 2010, when it
was combined-cycle gas turbines."


The performance means wind energy exceeded output from both nuclear and coal-fired power stations and represents more than a quarter of Spain's total power generation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...y-record-spain

[TeyshaBlue]

in Spain, otoh . . .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...y-record-spain

Woot! >25%....that's pretty sweet.

[Winehole23]

something to do with geography, probably. Spain is naturally blessed with al ude and is mostly surrounded by the sea.

[TeyshaBlue]

something to do with geography, probably. Spain is naturally blessed with al ude and is mostly surrounded by the sea.

True, but still have to salute them for the infrastructure and planning to pull that off.

[Winehole23]

yep

[Wild Cobra]

It's a great thing for them to do. Taking advantage of wind really makes sense for them. It also helps that they are a small, densely populated country. Makes for easier power switching when needed.

[MannyIsGod]

There is nothing special bout Spain that we don't have in many parts of this country where we have much higher populations that we could do something like this. The entire east coast and the entire west cost come to mind.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/w...bal_winds.html

for a quick glance at wind power potential throughout the world.

[boutons_deux]

small, densely populated country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_density

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_density

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_United_States



Espana has same population density as California, and is 20% bigger.

[MannyIsGod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_per_capita

Its easier for Spain not because of size or population density but because they don't use so much god damn energy.

[boutons_deux]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_per_capita

Its easier for Spain not because of size or population density but because they don't use so much god damn energy.

helps that their Banksters Great Depression has produced 25% unemployment.

[Th'Pusher]

helps that their Banksters Great Depression has produced 25% unemployment.

So the banksters Great Depression has brought about some good

[coyotes_geek]

Important to note that there's a pretty big disparity between fossil fuel prices in Spain vs. the U.S., so the economics for wind are a lot more favorable over there.

Not so say that wind can't work here or that we shouldn't push it here, it does and we should, just that it's understandable why they're moving faster on this than we are.

[boutons_deux]

Important to note that there's a pretty big disparity between fossil fuel prices in Spain vs. the U.S., so the economics for wind are a lot more favorable over there.

Not so say that wind can't work here or that we shouldn't push it here, it does and we should, just that it's understandable why they're moving faster on this than we are.

All countries have to buy $$ then go buy oil. A real disaster when the $ is strong.

[Winehole23]

http://www.energydigital.com/renewab...orage-upgrades

[coyotes_geek]

Cool stuff. thanks for posting.

[boutons_deux]

LCRA is putting a $200M transmission line to bring wind energy from Big Hill to Kendall (county) substation just north of IH10.

http://www.lcra.org/energy/trans/lin...llkendall.html

http://www.lcra.org/library/media/pu...58_tabloid.pdf

I drive IH10 daily. Very interesting to see building the lattice towers, mono-tube and duo-tube poles, stringing the cables, and clearing the ugly TX scrub brush and ugly TX trees for access path under the cable.

They had to do a dogleg around a house facing IH10. Can't put the wires over a building.

Starting from Kendall, the towers are mostly complete up to Kerrville, but the cables aren't that far, yet.

T-Boone, who's a billionaire oilman, complained a few years ago that TX wouldn't build a similar line from the wind farm he wanted to build in the panhandle down to DFW region, now he's returned to oil.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...d-gas-industry

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-...e-in-wind-farm

[CosmicCowboy]

TBoone never gave a about wind. He really wanted the easements to the major cities for water and wind was just the cover. When he didn't get the easements he dumped Mesa Waters water trights.

[MannyIsGod]

Richard Alley came to UNM to give a talk a few weeks back and I got to pick his brain for awhile. One thing we talked about was his belief that fracking would actually create an environment more conducive to renewable energy sources because of the quickness of which NG plants can be spun up as opposed to coal plants. So fracking also helps wind and solar. I found that to be quite fascinating.