Reply With Quote
breaking news......protest hasn't worked.......more rocks to be thrown.....camels loose all over cario
All good points, more of a biding their time deal where they would just sit on the sidelines and wait for the politicians to sort it out.
Smart, but lazy move.
breaking news......protest hasn't worked.......more rocks to be thrown.....camels loose all over cario
a camel-related gambit. How jaunty. What's the weather like in Cario?
Jack would have mocked the American Revolution before it even got off the ground.
To be completely fair, your inference that the political authority in the US is akin to Egypt, wielding its power despotically against an oppressed and terrorized people, was glancing and somewhat elliptical (the bolded ANYONE) to begin with, but the whining was unmistakable.
(sidenote: Glenn Greenwald recently struck a superficially similar theme.)
Last edited by Winehole23; 02-10-2011 at 05:59 PM.
From a mass email.As seen on Twitter
Egypt: Uninstalling dictator ... 99% complete
███████████████████████████░ -ERROR-
Well, it seems Mubarak's VP has handed power over to the military.
"Egypt is Free!" - Chant in Egypt.
Good Job. Revolution, minimal violence... Hopefully they don't squander this. Now the hard work begins.
Let's just hope that the factions driving the people aren't worse.
This seems to be completely grass roots. (Though, like you, I can't know that for sure since we aren't actually there).
Also, if we are for democracy, we have to be all the way for democracy. Yes, it would suck if this creates an enemy for us but it kinda boils down to this. Democracy: You are either with it, or against it.
Edit: to further explain, I do not want another enemy, however I believe in the long run the average will of an entire people (democracy) will be far more moderate than the concentrated will of a few.
Mr Mubarak Has Left The Building
... say rumors.
Is rumors the nickname for the country's VP??
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_egypt
Military coup. Thats the best possible result. Their Military staff is pretty much westernized and has lots of cross-pollination relationships with our military from annual exercises...they even worked together in Iraq...
Thats our best chance of avoiding a fundamental/radical Islamic regime change..
Plus they are supremely trusted by the people. However, they are going to have to make a quick and orderly transition to building a democracy and giving their power back up or I guess the people's trust will likely erode and we will be seeing this again in 2 years.
All in all a pretty predictable outcome. Too bad for all the peoples exuberance that their situation is no closer to being changed or improved. The military is in control and this fits in perfectly with reports of a high ranking military officer being in washington when this all started. Pretty cool to see a totally grassroots revolution oust a dictator but as usual some other opportunistic faction has just filled the vacuum while the people celebrate.
I would say that the military being in washington would be slightly su ious if it werent for them cutting their talks short and getting the heck back to Egypt when this broke out. Also the opportunistic faction that just filled the vacuum while the people celebrated is the same opportunistic faction that the people requested fill the vacuum so it is also a part of the grass roots effort.
Military takeover was the most likely outcome regardless of what the people wanted, and if we are to believe the majority of the diverse groups of people wanted the military then that is cause for su ion right there. The military officials were there prior to the outbreak and you think its a coincidence?
On another note, if this situation stays quiet for two years, the president has a potentially game changing weapon in his re election campaign. Achieving 'peace and democracy' without war and death. Republicans were literally praying this situation became a disaster. Military takeover is not an unfavorable outcome for us given the options.
I would say I believe the majority of the people wanted it as evidenced by the chants from the protesters of "Army please save us", etc. Seems pretty obvious to me.The people are with the military because their military is primarily a mandated military. The people serving in it are not any different than the others on the street. Its not a volunteer military with a culture apart from the general populace.
Were the Tunisian Military officers there too? Remember, this started in Tunisia, not Egypt.The military officials were there prior to the outbreak and you think its a coincidence?
I believe that if the military try to hang on for any significant length of time, then this will happen again.On another note, if this situation stays quiet for two years, the president has a potentially game changing weapon in his re election campaign. Achieving 'peace and democracy' without war and death. Republicans were literally praying this situation became a disaster. Military takeover is not an unfavorable outcome for us given the options.
On another note, if this situation stays quiet for two years, the president has a potentially game changing weapon in his re election campaign. Achieving 'peace and democracy' without war and death. Republicans were literally praying this situation became a disaster. Military takeover is not an unfavorable outcome for us given the options.
One of the more west-friendly countries overthrows the govt. and that's a good thing for the prez?
When the rogue nations have a peaceful revolution and settle down, then i'll be excited.
I'm (currently) republican and i was literally praying that it doesn't get crazy over there. What's wrong with me?
Repugs, and Fox Repug Propaganda network, will claim a good outcome in Egypt as vindicating the dubya/neo-cons' invasion and occupation of Iraq to cause M/E peace, love, and democracy to breakout as the reason the Egyptians kicked Mubarak out.
Probably commodity traders, oilcos, coalcos could legitimately claim responsibility since crazy weather killed a lot crops and commodity traders have been playing games with food commodities. Egyptian poor (like the lower 98%) are getting badly squeezed trying to pay for higher priced food.
Totally agree with your last point, it will take clever political moves to keep the people off the streets while nothing actually changes.
The only point i was trying to make about the military is that while it may be considered an outcome determined by the will of the people, it was most likely going to be the outcome before we heard them screaming for it in the streets. US Intel is not as dumb as some would think and yes they were meeting with egyptian military brass and yes i believe much more than tunisia was discussed.
The problem with trying to build democracy inf ANY of these backward countries is that
1. Elections are easily rigged (like in America)
2. There is no experienced, independent judiciary.
3. ... because there is no history of democratic rights defining/enforcing framework of laws.
4. contract law is worthless, if it exists at all
5. there is little or no civic spirit and shared responsibility for the state of the country (same problem as in America).
6. Affiliations and loyalties to religious sect, tribe, etc, are much stronger than to the country.
7. Corruption is deeply, eternally ingrained at all levels of society.
etc, etc, etc.
I wish all these backward countries luck, but their chances of a truly democratic society are extremely slim.
The USA will be there with its $Bs to assure and protect its imperial, commercial interests.
God damn some of you are cynical as . When I need a reminder I'm not that bad I can just come to ST.
There are currently 7 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 7 guests)
Posting Permissions
