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  1. #301
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  2. #302
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Also, in no small part has the militarization of American life and the ever increasing centralization of American government, education, and business led to this situation.

  3. #303
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    The family is seen as boring, stultifying, but it is a subversive ins ution, claiming a first loyalty not too infrequently inimical to the aims of state, church, and corporation.

  4. #304
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    You have to alienate the individual in order to prepare them for bureaucratic life in government and in work. You have to destroy the family to create needs filled by large corporate and governmental ins utions. No degree of private life is safe from the demands of state power and the capital markets.

    The materialist gospel is a false one. This inequality in wealth/income is the result. There have been 12 pages thus far about it, but I think we don't really want to acknowledge the cause. And since this is the political forum, there is plenty of blame to lay at the feet of both major modern political ideologies. We have destroyed an imperfect, yet humane life to create the perfect one.

  5. #305
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Boring, stultifying, inimical and subversive.

  6. #306
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    The materialist gospel is a false one. This inequality in wealth/income is the result. There have been 12 pages thus far about it, but I think we don't really want to acknowledge the cause. And since this is the political forum, there is plenty of blame to lay at the feet of both major modern political ideologies. We have destroyed an imperfect, yet humane life to create the perfect one.
    Good1.

  7. #307
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Anyone making $200K, for any amount of time, that doesn't plan for a rainy day, is an idiot and not deserving of my hard-earned tax dollars.

    We have food stamps because you're uncomfortable will dealing personally with those who are hungry, homeless, and poor. Charity is not the government's job; it's yours.

    And, I was unaware the government supplied all personal flotation devices on all the boats in the country. I seem to recall buying the ones stored with my John boat.

    So, you choose to funnel your "moral" dollars though an inept, inefficient, fraud-ridden, and incompetent government when those same "moral" dollars would go much further if you just took them directly to the food bank, soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc... on your own.
    So much sociopathy, not sure where to start.

    My wife and I personally donate both money and labor to a local homeless shelter, I think I am quite comfortable with poverty and hunger, thank you.

    We have food stamps because need is greater than capacity, and because we as a Christian nation chose to stop hunger in the US for very moral reasons. The moral evil of mandatory confiscatory taxation was judged to be less than the moral evil of allowing people in the richest nation on the planet to starve to death.


    'The face of a hungry child or their demeanor just really prints on me. It's unforgettable.'--Al Clayton

    Wealth transfer is mandatory because voluntary systems would simply not work to a sufficient capacity. Sorry.

    It is a "big lie" that private voluntary charity can magically step in where a mandatory government charity exists, but once again, reality is not kind to your worldview. When need is greatest, such as during economic downturns, donations drop off most.

    We as a people come together in our government to solve problems too big for any one person or even large group of people to solve. That is the method that we collectively have chosen to address hunger and poverty.

    If you don't like it, as I have said before, Somalia has no income taxes. You can keep 100% of your income there. Their government is the size of what people like you want.

    We gave up the Articles of Confederation for a reason.

  8. #308
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    One might argue just the opposite; the insinuation of the state into areas best handled by society has alienated us from one another, relieved us of any responsibility as members of a civil society to take care of one another or take responsibility for ourselves.
    One might argue that purple unicorns fart delicious chocolate chip cookies.

  9. #309
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I want some of whatever you're on. You holding?

  10. #310
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The breakdown of the family, the continued decrease in participation in intermediate ins utions (civic, charitable, religious), the light rootedness of individuals, and the sheer alienation of life in the face of consumerist sprawl and technological innovation lead to the expectation of the state to step into the hole. This is a poor subs ute for traditional civic society, but it is what we are left with. We have moved from social man to completely alienated man in the name of progress.
    That is what our pursuit of materialism has left us.

    " you, I've got mine" seems to be the modern motto.

  11. #311
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    So much sociopathy, not sure where to start.

    My wife and I personally donate both money and labor to a local homeless shelter, I think I am quite comfortable with poverty and hunger, thank you.

    We have food stamps because need is greater than capacity,...
    You can stop there.

    From where does the money come to fund Food Stamps?

    Again, we have food stamps because people would rather the government handle a problem they could do much better themselves.

  12. #312
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I want some of whatever you're on. You holding?
    I wish. It's been a while, and I'm about due.

  13. #313
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    lol

  14. #314
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    You can stop there.

    From where does the money come to fund Food Stamps?

    Again, we have food stamps because people would rather the government handle a problem they could do much better themselves.
    For God sakes, man, give up the new conservatism.

  15. #315
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I wish. It's been a while, and I'm about due.
    Smoke em if you got em.

  16. #316
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    That is what our pursuit of materialism has left us.

    " you, I've got mine" seems to be the modern motto.
    The amoral Randian ethic needs to be shot into space.

  17. #317
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    You can stop there.

    From where does the money come to fund Food Stamps?

    Again, we have food stamps because people would rather the government handle a problem they could do much better themselves.
    Well you seem to think that Food stamps were/are my doing, and I was pointing out the kinds of poverty that caused us as a society to think we should collectively do something, because private charity just wasn't cutting it.


    'The children would wear a lot of clothes and still the house is cold. And they would get closer and closer to the heat source.'

    Somehow, I doubt you could get the cast of "you're cut off" to give up their $2,000/month shoe buying to give enough to alleviate the kinds of poverty that still pervade some communities.

  18. #318
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    For God sakes, man, give up the new conservatism.
    For God's sake, wake up and realize en lements, as they currently exist, are no longer sustainable. We simply cannot afford them anymore.

    When government puts a stop to trading Lone Star cards (or whatever they're called these days) for drugs or prevents holders from buying vice items with them, or as was the case in California, gambling with public money; then we'll talk.

    And, this isn't a new manifestation of the welfare state. , I can remember relatives hoarding and selling WIC cheese and beans 30 years ago.

    There so much fraud, abuse, and incompetence in the welfare programs it undermines your whole "need outpaces capacity" argument.

  19. #319
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    In the summer of 1967, photographer Al Clayton traveled through the Mississippi Delta, eastern Kentucky, Georgia and Alabama, and do ented the lives of America's poor and hungry.


    In July 1967, his photographs were presented at a hearing on Capitol Hill, where they inspired senators to call for increased funding for anti-poverty programs such as food stamps.

    Two years later, the photos were collected in a book called Still Hungry in America, with text by the eminent psychiatrist Robert Coles.




    In July 1967, his photographs were presented at a hearing on Capitol Hill, where they inspired senators to call for increased funding for anti-poverty programs such as food stamps.

    Two years later, the photos were collected in a book called Still Hungry in America, with text by the eminent psychiatrist Robert Coles.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...=5492469&ps=rs

    Poverty exists. We might talk about it in an abstract way here, but I think it pertinent to see what it looks like up close and personal.

  20. #320
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    For God's sake, wake up and realize en lements, as they currently exist, are no longer sustainable. We simply cannot afford them anymore.

    When government puts a stop to trading Lone Star cards (or whatever they're called these days) for drugs or prevents holders from buying vice items with them, or as was the case in California, gambling with public money; then we'll talk.

    And, this isn't a new manifestation of the welfare state. , I can remember relatives hoarding and selling WIC cheese and beans 30 years ago.

    There so much fraud, abuse, and incompetence in the welfare programs it undermines your whole "need outpaces capacity" argument.
    I have no doubt that someone, somehwhere is abusing the system. I am willing to accept that some waste and fraud will take place, if on the balance truly needy are helped.

    Do you think that people don't abuse private charity?

    Can you quantify how much of each dollar is lost to "waste, fraud, or incompetance"?

    Or is this just a hand-wavy pla ude of unfalsifiable assertions?

  21. #321
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    For God's sake, wake up and realize en lements, as they currently exist, are no longer sustainable. We simply cannot afford them anymore.
    We can't afford the benefits or we can't afford the non-supermen?

    When government puts a stop to trading Lone Star cards (or whatever they're called these days) for drugs or prevents holders from buying vice items with them, or as was the case in California, gambling with public money; then we'll talk.

    And, this isn't a new manifestation of the welfare state. , I can remember relatives hoarding and selling WIC cheese and beans 30 years ago.
    So then your qualm is process. Sure, you want state aid, then clean up. Nobody wants the state in their business, but it is what is. This is the world we live in, the old one has been killed off.

    There so much fraud, abuse, and incompetence in the welfare programs it undermines your whole "need outpaces capacity" argument.
    Waste, fraud, and abuse lie everywhere.

  22. #322
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Held Captive”: Child Poverty in America, a new report commissioned and published by the Children’s Defense Fund, found that the plight for poor children in Mississippi is so dire, enriching experiences so meager and government aid so inadequate and spotty that after school tutoring and reading programs in Quitman County and two other Delta counties are funded by foreign aid, a grant from the Bernard van Leer Foundation of the Netherlands. “The foundation focuses on children and families in what it refers to as oppressed societies,” said Betty Ward Fletcher, the director of a Jackson, Miss., -based consulting firm contracted by the Dutch foundation to help it design a program in Mississippi. “Some of its people wondered why it should be working in the most affluent country in the world, but they decided the reality is we have poor children in this country who are denied the opportunity to be all they can be.”

    Julia Cass, a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, chronicled the toll poverty is inflicting on America’s children for the Children’s Defense Fund. She spent time with poor children in Quitman County, Miss., Katrina-displaced children in Baton Rouge, La., and children of the newly poor in Long Island, N.Y. Cass found that despite safety net protections put in place over the past generation, poor children are still adrift in a sea of poverty with their future in jeopardy. Years of research link childhood poverty to a mul ude of poor outcomes: lower academic attainment, higher rates of teenage pregnancy and incarceration, a greater chance of health and behavioral problems, and lifelong poverty. And the current economic crisis continues to drag more families and their children into poverty. This Christmas season 15.5 million children in America, more than one in five, are living in poverty, a number of them in extreme poverty. This is the highest child poverty rate the nation has experienced since 1959.
    (pdf report from Dec 2010)
    http://www.childrensdefense.org/chil...ld-poverty.pdf

    In Baton Rouge, children displaced by Hurricane Katrina five and a half years ago are still struggling, and largely forgotten. The storm ripped apart fragile family safety nets. Too often, children are left to fend for themselves and they make poor decisions. Navia, 14 years old, is largely self-raised. She said she wanted to graduate from high school and be the first in her family not to have a baby before age 20. She didn’t seem to realize that being truant and missing a year of school would make it difficult for her to reach that goal. With no family support, public ins utions charged with involvement in Navia’s life are failing her as well. She is out of school, yet the school district did not send a truant officer to her home all year. “She is already far off the pathway to a happy and successful life,” Cass reports.
    Yeah, a lot of poor people make bad decisions, and remain poor because of it.

    How do you make good decisions, if no one ever showed you how?

  23. #323
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    If erstwhile political conservatives were shrewd, they'd find a way to appeal to the family and faith centric ethics of the currently largest immigrant group to stage a revolt and throw a wrench in this process, instead of fearmongering about immigration. As it stands, this group will be run through the grist mill like all the others that have come before.

  24. #324
    Breaker of Derps RandomGuy's Avatar
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    For God's sake, wake up and realize en lements, as they currently exist, are no longer sustainable. We simply cannot afford them anymore.
    So people who make over $500,000 per year can't afford to pay 37% of their income instead of 34%?


  25. #325
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    Further, Yonivore is conflating middle-class en lements with state aid to the poor. The poor nuclear family is dead. The state is the provider of last resort.

    The problem is that we are comfortable with the cause. We accept the tradeoff because we are easy saited by all this bull we are able to buy.

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