The Official Jefferson and Bonner Complaint Thread

[xellos88330]

What has he done in the last 7 games or so? NOTHING! Yet he still is out there with mins in crunch time! He is him, he is what he is.

So it is ok for Manu/Parker/Neal to chuck up shots, turn the ball over, and not look for teammates because it was all Bonner's fault?

Get real.

[Sean Cagney]

So it is ok for Manu/Parker/Neal to chuck up shots, turn the ball over, and not look for teammates because it was all Bonner's fault?

Get real.

Come on they do alot more overall than he does! Stop it! Are yo serious there? You are not serious are you? He is what he is, he is a choker in games later in the year, he just started early this year. Is Splitter not better? I am serious too? Bonner is not a role player the way he is used, he is a key player but does not deliver for the team time and time again later in the year, he is what he is.

Why the do you want this clown to get mins like he will turn it around? They all can, but he will not and it's proven time and again! Neal is a rookie Splitter is too, have they choked yet in the playoffs? NOT YET, let them get time, Bonner has run his course he is not good.

[ElNono]

And your OP is so full of , xellos... We all support the team. I want Bonner and RJ to do well, but if they don't do well, then I'm not going to shut up. I've called out Tony, Manu and TD when they fessed up too, it just happens that they do so a lot less often.

Your assessment of Bonner's role is also mediocre. Tim rarely gets double teams anymore against good teams. The reality is that we have such a good record because our big 3 were finally all healthy to start the season, and as Kori pointed out, we had a few fluke wins we didn't deserve. We also had a guy like Neal stepping up and RJ shooting a fluke 60% in the first couple of months.

It was obvious even then that was not going to last.

[xellos88330]

This game? I've been pointing out Bonner's mediocrity for the past three seasons.
Some people are just catching up. This guy folds under pressure like no other, and it's a turnstile on defense. You couldn't possibly convince me that's "by design".

I don't care how well he shoots the 3 during the regular season, his average scoring is simply circa 8ppg, and for the life of me he gives up as much or more on the other end. Not to mention that he has to be amongst the worst 6'10 rebounders in this league.

Since Bowen retired, our perimeter defense has taken a severe nosedive, which has put a lot more pressure on our interior defense. Coupled with Tim's decline, what we've been needing is MORE help for Tim, not less. The guy is an automatic mismatch when he's on the floor.

But I guess we're just gonna play the 3 point lottery and see if we get lucky... I wanted something better for Tim's encore, tbh.

It isn't by design. His weakness is on the defensive side of the ball. I completely understand and agree with that. Why do you think the Spurs decided to go with a more offensive style this year? That IS by design. They aren't built to be the lockdown defensive team they once were. Pop is taking advantage of what the players he does have can do. Score the ball. Would you rather have a system completely reliant on defense when Matt Bonner (Blair is also lacking in this area) is on the court? It would be a disaster of epic proportions. Last season the Spurs tried the defensive style. It didn't work. The year before that, it didn't work. They just didn't have those kinds of players. What killed the Spurs was their offense.

[ElNono]

BTW, I fully assume we're rolling with Bonner and I'll be cursing at the TV.

[ElNono]

It isn't by design. His weakness is on the defensive side of the ball. I completely understand and agree with that. Why do you think the Spurs decided to go with a more offensive style this year? That IS by design. They aren't built to be the lockdown defensive team they once were. Pop is taking advantage of what the players he does have can do. Score the ball. Would you rather have a system completely reliant on defense when Matt Bonner (Blair is also lacking in this area) is on the court? It would be a disaster of epic proportions. Last season the Spurs tried the defensive style. It didn't work. The year before that, it didn't work. They just didn't have those kinds of players. What killed the Spurs was their offense.

You can't say 'they didn't have those kind of players' when Pop is the VP of the organization and actively went and signed up both Bonner and RJ. Not only we overpaid for those turds, we overplay them too. This roster was put together by them. You can't remove responsibility from them.

As far as 'Score the ball', you need balance. You can score a lot, but if you don't have at least some defense to fall back to when the ball isn't going in (inevitable), or when you really need a stop, then you're no better than SSOL. Considering we have basically no decent perimeter defender, and that you don't want to sit Manu or Tony, you can't afford not to have two good interior defenders, especially when one is on the decline (or two, if you count Dice). This was somewhat masked when Bowen was around, but now that he's gone, you can't hide from it.

I also want to add that Bonner isn't the only problem. He's just the most obvious weakest link, and has consistently been since being given meaningful minutes.

[crc21209]

Ehh..I can deal with RJ more than Bonner. Bonner needs to fall off the face of the Earth...

[Isitjustme?]

RJ is on a straight nose dive, if he gets even worse over the next three years watch out

[xellos88330]

And your OP is so full of , xellos... We all support the team. I want Bonner and RJ to do well, but if they don't do well, then I'm not going to shut up. I've called out Tony, Manu and TD when they fessed up too, it just happens that they do so a lot less often.

Your assessment of Bonner's role is also mediocre. Tim rarely gets double teams anymore against good teams. The reality is that we have such a good record because our big 3 were finally all healthy to start the season, and as Kori pointed out, we had a few fluke wins we didn't deserve. We also had a guy like Neal stepping up and RJ shooting a fluke 60% in the first couple of months.

It was obvious even then that was not going to last.

So every time the Spurs lose it is all Bonners fault? Never mind the fact that there are 4 other players wearing Spurs jerseys.

Here is some perspective for everyone here. These losses aren't only the fault of 1 player. If I recall, it wasn't Bonner who threw the ball out of bounds in Portland. It wasn't Bonners fault that the perimeter defense couldn't keep Miller in check tonight. It wasn't Bonner that was defending Tony Allen in Memphis. It wasn't Bonners fault for turning the ball over in crunch time in Denver.

This is all that I am trying to say. I am not defending Bonners inadequate defense/rebounding. I completely agree that he needs to start showing improvement on those areas, but this is a TEAM sport. Every player on that team makes mistakes. Blame should fall on the team not just one player. The Spurs aren't saying it is Bonners fault are they? They all know that every single one of them made mistakes that helped in the losses.

I am just tired of everyone blaming specific players. Blame the damn team. Last I checked, this wasn't the San Antonio Bonners.

EDIT: Just read your last post Nono. I think you understand what I have been trying to say.

[xellos88330]

You can't say 'they didn't have those kind of players' when Pop is the VP of the organization and actively went and signed up both Bonner and RJ. Not only we overpaid for those turds, we overplay them too. This roster was put together by them. You can't remove responsibility from them.

As far as 'Score the ball', you need balance. You can score a lot, but if you don't have at least some defense to fall back to when the ball isn't going in (inevitable), or when you really need a stop, then you're no better than SSOL. Considering we have basically no decent perimeter defender, and that you don't want to sit Manu or Tony, you can't afford not to have two good interior defenders, especially when one is on the decline (or two, if you count Dice). This was somewhat masked when Bowen was around, but now that he's gone, you can't hide from it.

I also want to add that Bonner isn't the only problem. He's just the most obvious weakest link, and has consistently been since being given meaningful minutes.

That is what I have been saying. Too much blame has been rendered on one player. It is pretty unfair if you ask me. He is the weakest link defensively for the Spurs. Only three options for it.

1. Replace link. (Too late in the season to really find a player who can do what Bonner can on offense, but with better defense/rebounding)
2. Find a way to reinforce the link so it doesn't break. (Better ball denial into the post maybe?)
3. Don't play him. (With Duncan/McDyess out, Blairs size being exploited, and Splitter adjusting, this is hard to do.)

I expect things to change in the playoffs. If he doesn't perform, sayonara.

[itzsoweezee]

How many minutes he is playing doesn't change the fact that he is a role player. Rasho/Mohammed/Horry/Oberto were role players asked to defend/rebound (Horry to stretch the floor as well). They all played heavy minutes too.

Mohammed, Oberto were starters. They had a role to fill and filled it nicely. Bonners role is simply different than theirs was. He fills it out quite well too.

1. Mohammed, Horry, Oberto, all played their roles better than Bonner does.

2. Bonner's role is not useful for the team. Using up front court minutes for a guy that can't rebound, play defense, or do nearly anything else particularly well, is a horrible idea.

[Sean Cagney]

Ehh..I can deal with RJ more than Bonner. Bonner needs to fall off the face of the Earth...

Yep he is utter , no doubt!!!!!!!!!!

[Sean Cagney]

That is what I have been saying. Too much blame has been rendered on one player. It is pretty unfair if you ask me. He is the weakest link defensively for the Spurs. Only three options for it.

1. Replace link. (Too late in the season to really find a player who can do what Bonner can on offense, but with better defense/rebounding)
2. Find a way to reinforce the link so it doesn't break. (Better ball denial into the post maybe?)
3. Don't play him. (With Duncan/McDyess out, Blairs size being exploited, and Splitter adjusting, this is hard to do.)

I expect things to change in the playoffs. If he doesn't perform, sayonara.

He won't perform, do not worry or get your hopes up there he is BONNER! HE IS WHAT HE IS!

[xellos88330]

He won't perform, do not worry or get your hopes up there he is BONNER! HE IS WHAT HE IS!

I can't help but be optimistic for any player wearing the Silver and Black. I can handle the consequences of being an optimist. I really do wish him the best of luck in the post season. If he can perform well, then YEAH!!! If not, his time with the Spurs is most likely spent.

Bonner beasting in the playoffs?

Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.

[Sean Cagney]

I can't help but be optimistic for any player wearing the Silver and Black. I can handle the consequences of being an optimist. I really do wish him the best of luck in the post season. If he can perform well, then YEAH!!! If not, his time with the Spurs is most likely spent.

Bonner beasting in the playoffs?

Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.

Why not more Splitter who can rebound and play a better post game? I am just asking you that there? Can he take some of those mins from BOnner? I hope so!

[xellos88330]

Why not more Splitter who can rebound and play a better post game? I am just asking you that there? Can he take some of those mins from BOnner? I hope so!

I am not the coach. If it were up to me, he would be taking some of not only Bonners, but Blairs minutes as well. Not all of them, but some of them.

[hommeaetage]

I can't help but be optimistic for any player wearing the Silver and Black. I can handle the consequences of being an optimist. I really do wish him the best of luck in the post season. If he can perform well, then YEAH!!! If not, his time with the Spurs is most likely spent.

Bonner beasting in the playoffs?

Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.

Bonner has been with the team since 06, what exactly has he done? Ever since he's gotten major mins in the rotation the team hasn't won squat. Now I'm not going to say he's the main reason for that but look at his last playoffs performances: 23% 37% 31% on what is supposedly his best skill. What does that tell me? He can't perform under pressure

[taps]

it's true Bonner keeps checking Pop "am I running in the right direction coach?"

this revelation has me in s ches

[Fireball]

In the off-season they worked on the fundamentals with RJ ... but that seems to have destroyed his ability to slash to the basket. Jesus, how many offensive fouls did RJ have last night? Not performing in a night where he is the only starter - inexcusable! We have to hope that he finds some rhythm in the playoffs to get 10 points per game consistently, because the alternatives (Anderson, Green) are not there ...

[Slippy]

Bonner's defense reminds me of a chicken once it gets it's head chopped off. He's moving but don't know where. You can see player's eyes lighting up when Mat is on them. , even opposition commentators gets excited when Matt is defending.

For the life of me , i have no idea why Pop hasn't given up on Bonner by now.
He should only be situational guy for outside shooting. Nothing more , nothing less.

[yavozerb]

Not sure how you can complain this game about bonner this game cause he actually played pretty well. RJ on the other hand was horrible. This put to rest the theory that RJ is the 4th option and that is whats leading to his low numbers...

[MaNu4Tres]

RJ has been pretty damn bad offensively (outside of his 3 point shooting) the past few months.

His mid-range game is non-existent and his penetrating ability is methodical and predictable (due to him having only one speed when he puts the ball on the floor; he needs to put more work on changing his speeds with the ball and creating separation laterally at the basket with an assortment of pivot moves-unfortunately its too late for that).

He has no counter moves on the dribble whenever his defender impedes his progress to the basket, which leaves him jumping in the air in no mans land-- where only a whistle can bail him out.

Although I was one who was for the resigning of R.J-- because of the fact that he was the Spurs' best option this off-season and for the reason being that it didn't really effect the Spurs' cap the next few years ( because of Manu, Tim and Tony being under-contract for the long haul; meaning Spurs were going to be at the cap anyways and wouldn't have enough room to sign anyone significant via free agency unless the Spurs had a players bird rights-- then they could fit the signing under the luxury tax --which was where R.J fit the bill).

All in all, I'm hoping he continues hitting the 3 ball at a high rate because that's what the Spurs will need out of him the most offensively come playoff time.

[G-Dawgg]

RJ is good. Only problem is, alot less plays are being run for him... no more alley-oop lobs, and he was at his most effective early in the season when guys like Parker, Hill, and Manu were fast-breaking with him leaking out. We were running teams into the ground and scoring 120+ points a game... Why the Spurs went away from this I don't know. Blame the coaching I say, but RJ is fine, he's hitting his 3's and defending well, he's just not getting many shot attempts.

[MannyIsGod]

RJ's had fewer shots because he's not the best option. I'd rather give those looks to Hill and Neal, to be quite honest. That being said, RJ's hitting those 3s, and as long as he continues to do so then I'm not going to be upset with him.

Yeah, we all wish he would provide more but he is what he is and if he can play decent D and hit those 3s thats pretty much all we need from him.

[ElNono]

I expect things to change in the playoffs. If he doesn't perform, sayonara.

I stopped expecting different last playoffs. If he doesn't perform, he'll be back again next season and we'll rehash this same old story. It's been Deja Vu for, now, the 3rd season in a row. Hope he proves me wrong.