Why hasn't the possibility of shutting the WNBA down been addressed?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So you're saying the owners put rules in place allowing someone to fine them? That seems logical

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying the owners put rules in place allowing someone to fine them? That seems logical

That's exactly what I am saying. It's like a homeonwers' association. It's your house, but you agreed to the terms of the HOA when you bought it, and the HOA president can fine you if you don't adhere to those terms.

Understand?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Really?

Who does?

They have control over a portion. The way revenue is shared isn't something that can be negotiated at any time.

That's a power they gave their employee, David Stern.And who set the league up to do that?

And it's not a power they can take away with the snap of a finger. You're original point was they could cut off WNBA subsidies at any time. Now you're saying they gave Stern the power to disperse revenue as he pleases. Which one is it?

[ogait]

First of all, we kind of have to know how much money are we talking about. What difference would it make if they ended the WNBA in the global economy of the NBA.

Even more important than that is the public reaction if they decided to end the WNBA in what is being perceived by the general public as fight between billionaires and millionaires to get more money. It could have a negative impact in the global opinion of the NBA even for fans who don't care or watch the WNBA.

My guess is the money they are loosing with it, probably isn't even worth the bother to entertain this possibility.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That's exactly what I am saying. It's like a homeonwers' association. It's your house, but you agreed to the terms of the HOA when you bought it, and the HOA president can fine you if you don't adhere to those terms.

Understand?

So do the homeowners have any control of how their monthly dues to the homeowners association are spent?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

My guess is the money they are loosing with it, probably isn't even worth the bother to entertain this possibility.

That's a great way to run a business.

"Hey, we're definitely losing money in this department, but it's not enough where we should try to stop losing money in this department"

[jag]

It would be kind of dumb for an ESPN sportscaster to talk about his own network's programming.

Of course it would. Don't patronize me.

It made no sense from a financial standpoint for ESPN to be involved with WNBA programming. I'm sure the it's probably the same reason they felt the need to develop WESPN.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Even more important than that is the public reaction if they decided to end the WNBA in what is being perceived by the general public as fight between billionaires and millionaires to get more money. It could have a negative impact in the global opinion of the NBA even for fans who don't care or watch the WNBA.

So basically, what you're saying is that the WNBA is a charity organization the NBA keeps alive solely for PR. Thanks for agreeing with my original post about how much of a joke the WNBA is.

[ChumpDumper]

They have control over a portion. The way revenue is shared isn't something that can be negotiated at any time.

Then who controls the rest?

Their employees?

And it's not a power they can take away with the snap of a finger. You're original point was they could cut off WNBA subsidies at any time. Now you're saying they gave Stern the power to disperse revenue as he pleases. Which one is it?

It's both actually.

I never said they gave direct control of the WNBA to Stern in the first place. That is a power you ascribed to him. I would bet the actual money is delegated by a committee of the board of governors, which is made up mostly of -- surprise! -- owners.

Even if they did give him that direct power, they can certainly take it away.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course it would. Don't patronize me.

It made no sense from a financial standpoint for ESPN to be involved with WNBA programming. I'm sure the it's probably the same reason they felt the need to develop WESPN.

You are free to bring that up at the next Disney stockholders meeting.

[Joey Gallo]

You are free to bring that up at the next Disney stockholders meeting.

Chumpdumper, dumpin' chumps

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Then who controls the rest?

Their employees?

Yeah....
Just like how people "employed" by a home owners association have control over how the monthly dues are spent.

It's both actually.

I never said they gave direct control of the WNBA to Stern in the first place. That is a power you ascribed to him. I would bet the actual money is delegated by a committee of the board of governors, which is made up mostly of -- surprise! -- owners.

You would bet or you would know?

Even if they did give him that direct power, they can certainly take it away.

Not at any time. They'd have to do it during CBA negotiations, and adding a clause prohibiting the league from spending money on the WNBA is something plenty of owners might casually support, but it's not something any owner would want to be the leader of. The only person who could kill the WNBA without taking a giant hit publicly would be Stern since he created the WNBA and obviously tried his hardest to keep it alive.

[ChumpDumper]

So do the homeowners have any control of how their monthly dues to the homeowners association are spent?

Absolutely.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

ChumpDumper, whatever happened to you telling me NBA teams don't have to cover their own losses?

[JamStone]

Agree with the thread for the most part. Except for places like Connecticut (because of the UConn women team) and maybe a couple other teams, there isn't a big enough fan base to care. Case in point, two of the most successful WNBA teams (Houston Comets and Detroit Shock) no longer exist. They were either contracted or moved. It says a lot that championship tradition can't keep teams in cities.

I agree Stern doesn't want to admit the mistake of the WNBA. Seems like he wants to make it part of his legacy as NBA commissioner that he did something for women's rights, and have it more about his social legacy rather than his business legacy.

But here's where I guess I can justify it to the very smallest degree. The WNBA doesn't really make any money. But if you look at the big picture, as the WNBA relates to the multi-billion dollar, international ins ution that the NBA has become, the cost the WNBA puts on the NBA is minimal at best. The NBA has had to cover up to $12 million to finance the WNBA for a season. That's the most its had to spend. $12 million is a drop in the bucket when you're talking about the NBA dealing with an annual revenue somewhere between $3-4 billion. Now it's true that some NBA teams are losing money, but that's where player salaries come into play. NBA players are making too much money. NBA franchises are financially viable and profitable for the most part. The player salaries have gotten out of control. When you think about it $12 million is nothing to cover as a loss or expense.

Probably be better off just to get rid of it completely. But the WNBA isn't even in the neighborhood of being a primary financial problem for the NBA.

[Koolaid_Man]

Since the day of its inception, the WNBA has never been profitable. The only reason it's lasted this long is because Stern created it and would rather keep it on life support with revenue earned by the NBA and its players than put his ego aside and admit it was a failure. The WNBA has never demonstrated the ability to turn a profit regardless of economic conditions in America. People love to use the term "It's a business" when describing pro sports, but the WNBA is anything but a business. The sole purpose of a business is making money, one thing the WNBA doesn't do. It's better described as a non-profit charity organization funded by the NBA for female basketball players.

Now, when the economy is good, and everyone (owners, players, coaches, etc.) in the NBA is fat and happy, it's excusable for Stern to use the NBA to keep the WNBA around. It's still in stupid for a "business" to invest in something my dog can see isn't profitable, but it's not something worth complaining about.

In this economy tho, it's ridiculous that not only is the WNBA still around, there hasn't been any murmur of shutting it down/contracting it. There's been talk from Stern of killing as many as 10 NBA teams that are losing money right now but have made money in the past, but Stern hasn't even mentioned the idea of killing a league that can't make money in a good or bad economy. There's a likely chance we'll see a hard salary cap where NBA players take a big pay cut and have contracts that are only partially guaranteed when NBA players are selling tickets and earning big TV contracts for the NBA, yet I haven't heard anything about reducing the WNBA players' salary/making their contract non-guaranteed, when the only reason they get paid is revenue earned by NBA athletes.

Does this seem as stupid to anyone else as it does to me?

about as Stupid as defending gay marriage...so on the one hand you're a proponent of gay marriage but you don't want to let Bull Dikes play ball...

How will they support each other in marriage if they aren't allowed to work Dok...

[jag]

You are free to bring that up at the next Disney stockholders meeting.

I'd rather voice my basketball opinions on a basketball forum.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah....
Just like how people "employed" by a home owners association have control over how the monthly dues are spent.

Right, they are given that control by the homeowners.

You would bet or you would know?

I said I would bet. That's how they do most of the things they do.

Not at any time. They'd have to do it during CBA negotiations

Do you actually know that?

I don't remember the WNBA's funding being mentioned in the CBA whenever I read parts of it. Feel free to point it out to me. I'll believe you when you link the section that refers to it.

I just think it would take a meeting of the board of governors -- like an HOA meeting where they take a vote to pay a landscaping company.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd rather voice my basketball opinions on a basketball forum.

Great.

[jag]

Great.

I know, right?

[ogait]

So basically, what you're saying is that the WNBA is a charity organization the NBA keeps alive solely for PR. Thanks for agreeing with my original post about how much of a joke the WNBA is.

Interpret it as you want. I'm not a WNBA fan myself but don't pretend they could just shut down the WNBA because of the economy and not have consequences.

That's a great way to run a business.

"Hey, we're definitely losing money in this department, but it's not enough where we should try to stop losing money in this department."

You know very well that's not how it works. I'm not advocating that it wouldn't make sense financially to end the WNBA. Having started a women's league might have been a mistake, but ending it is a totally different story.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't remember the WNBA's funding being mentioned in the CBA whenever I read parts of it. Feel free to point it out to me. I'll believe you when you link the section that refers to it.

I just think it would take a meeting of the board of governors -- like an HOA meeting where they take a vote to pay a landscaping company.

Feel free to point out this "board of governors" made up of owners that can call a meeting at any time to end the WNBA without Stern's approval.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You know very well that's not how it works.

I don't really. Everything a business does is supposed to have a positive impact on profitability. If one of the business's operations isn't profitable, they end it. It's that simple.

[JamStone]

I don't really. Everything a business does is supposed to have a positive impact on profitability. If one of the business's operations isn't profitable, they end it. It's that simple.

Successful businesses also put in time and revenue to promote philanthropy and charity as a social responsibility to "give back" to the community.

Look at the WNBA as just that. It offers a venue and medium to inspire young girls who aspire to be professional athletes. It offers young female basketball players a career opportunity in the country.

I actually agree with you that they should just end the WNBA. But as I posted above, the cost to the NBA is next to nothing when you look at the big picture. And in response to your business angle, it's not just about profit. Plenty of successful, million and billion dollar business do things that don't directly and positively impact profitability.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Successful businesses also put in time and revenue to promote philanthropy and charity as a social responsibility to "give back" to the community.

Look at the WNBA as just that. It offers a venue and medium to inspire young girls who aspire to be professional athletes. It offers young female basketball players a career opportunity in the country.

I actually agree with you that they should just end the WNBA. But as I posted above, the cost to the NBA is next to nothing when you look at the big picture. And in response to your business angle, it's not just about profit. Plenty of successful, million and billion dollar business do things that don't directly and positively impact profitability.

The WNBA isn't advertised or marketed as a charity, I'm sure as not gonna treat it like one. The NBA has "NBA cares" for philanthropy and charity, don't even try to pretend Stern created the WNBA for image. He created the WNBA because his big ass ego was convinced he could create a successful female basketball league.

I've never seen a charity organization that gives people in need 5-6 figure salaries. I've never seen a charity organization that has a draft every year for people to enter hoping they get to work for that charity organization. You have an odd definition of charity when you consider giving a few lucky women with a skill that no one cares about a 5-6 figure income to showcase said skill "giving back to the community". The WNBA doesn't do jack for 99.99% of the community.

Quit acting like the WNBA has any kind of impact real charity organizations do.