He probably won't get down on his knees, but that fellow sitting near you during the Sunday church service just may be an atheist. And a scientist.
A new study out of Rice University has found that 17 percent -- about one out of five scientists who describe themselves as either atheists or agnostics -- actually go to church, although not too often, and not because they feel a spiritual yearning to join the faithful.
More likely, it's because of the kids.
What? Why would somebody who doesn't believe there's a god want his own offspring wasting their time in an enterprise he believes has no foundation in fact? Especially a scientist.
The study, by sociologists Elaine Howard Ecklund of Rice and Kristen Schultz Lee of the University at Buffalo, found that many atheists want their children exposed to religion so that they can make up their own minds on what to believe. In addition, church may provide a better understanding of morality and ethics, and occasionally attending services may ease the conflict between spouses who disagree over the value of religion to their children, the study contends.
The research, published in the December issue of the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, was based on in-depth interviews with 275 scientists at 21 "elite" research universities in the United States. Sixty-one percent of the participants described themselves as either atheists or agnostics, and 17 percent of the non-believers had attended church more than once in the past year.
In general, their church affiliation followed a similar pattern -- most were raised in a family that was not deeply involved in religion, and they did not attend church during early adulthood but established a relationship with a church when they had children of their own. After the children had grown, they attended church less and less, if at all.
But why would someone who believes there is no god want his children exposed to doctrines that he clearly believes to be false?
"Some actually see it as part of their scientific iden y," Ecklund said in a telephone interview. "They want to teach their children to be free thinkers, to give them religious choices, and so they take their children to religious organizations just to give them exposure to religion."
Let the kids make up their own minds, many of the participants told Ecklund.
Still, it may seem a bit odd for some atheists to perceive church as a desired "community" at a time when many leading atheists are calling on their colleagues to come out of the closet and take a public stand against religion. Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, physicist Victor Stenger and others see religion as a source of evil in the world.
They contend that science has moved beyond a belief in the supernatural, partly because science has answered some questions that were previously left up to clerics. Evolution, for example, provides a naturalist explanation for how we got here.
True believers, by contrast, regard atheists as "among the least trusted people" on the planet, according to researchers at the University of British Columbia. These scientists emphasized last month that the right word is "distrust," not "dislike."
But however you put it, atheists do have a bit of an image problem. If they feel uncomfortable attending church, that's nothing compared to entering some aspects of public service. They usually find themselves on the outside looking in.
Atheists Who Go to Church
Columnist Michael Kinsley confessed to being a "nonbeliever" in the Los Angeles Times last month. In an op-ed piece he conceded, "That puts me in the only religious grouping in America whose members are effectively barred from any hope of becoming president, due to widespread public prejudice against them. There will be a Mormon president, a Jewish president, an openly gay president before there will be a president who says publicly that he doesn't believe in God."
He contrasted that with the current run for the White House in which "four of this year's Republican candidates were personally recruited by God to run for president." That number has since dropped to three.
Ecklund, who has conducted several studies of science and religion, said in the interview that it's possible for an atheist to become a member of a religious community without feeling like a phony.
"I don't think they see it as a conflict," she said. That's partly because they've been out of the mainstream for nearly their entire lives.
"There's a good deal of difference between the science community and the general public," she said. "Scientists are less likely to have been raised in religious homes." When they were, she added, "they were generally raised in homes where religion was not practiced strongly. It was not part of the fabric of life."
So perhaps a scientist who happens to be an agnostic or an atheist sees no problem with turning to religion, if only for awhile, because it could open new avenues of thought for the children. After all, isn't that the heart of science?
"The children can decide for themselves what to believe," Ecklund said.
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http://news.yahoo.com/atheists-churc...225034079.html
I used to be mildly religious, but just couldn't buy it anymore, and finally made the leap a year or so ago. I feel much better for having done so.
I will be doing this for my kids. They can make up their mind or not about various religions. If they want to worship God in some way, then that will be their choice.
Oddly enough, my wife and I have also had a discussion about how to teach our kids about ethical topics.
Not having the crutch of someone else writing a book with easy answers, spending time communicating and talking about this is actually a good exercise in making oneself think about these things in a bit more depth.
I go to church and take my kid every now and then just to pacify my own mom.
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My daughter goes to Catholic school. I will probably end up sending my son. Why? Because Catholics sure know how to educate.
I can't, however, say that my life has followed the arc presented in this article. My parents went to church every Sunday, I went to Catholic school until halfway through 4th grade, and my parents have gotten more and more involved with the Church every single year. I was absolutely exposed to religion (to the point that when I told them I don't believe and I wasn't going to church, they threatened to take my truck away and I compared them to the inquisition), I just didn't buy it past my early teens.
I know plenty of good people who are religious and plenty of bad people who are atheists. I don't feel uncomfortable around anyone based on religious persuasion. It is someone's other traits which suck (and these can be seen in both athiests and theists).
I'm good with saving the $300-400 a month by sending my daughter to public school for grades 1-5.
Middle school though, she's going private.
I hear what you are saying, but
1) for Pre-K it costs less to send her there than to a relatively inexpensive daycare.
2) I am probably going to do the opposite of what you are doing (unless I get rich). I think it is more important to give her a good base. Plus *I* think that she would benefit more by getting ahead early, than to be behind when entering into private school.
I guess if you want to do it that way, keep tabs on what they are learning at the private school in each grade to make sure you daughter isn't slipping back.
If she maintains an A average, I can't imagine that she would be that far off going from 5th grade public to 6th grade private.
I'm more concerned with the environment. Since middle school is horrible enough as it is, I like the fact that a private school can easily kick out the bad kids.
You may be right. Good luck to each of our children.
When my children get older, it's likely I'll be bringing them to church at least a few times a year, per the wife's request. I don't really mind though. Before we even had kids, we discussed what we'd teach our children when they got older. I figured we'd tell them the truth... Mom believes this, Dad believes that, no one really knows but we make our best judgments according to what we feel is right/true.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that I feel the church can hold an invaluable service, by bringing communities together during times of need and encouraging volunteering and helping others.
I believe in God, but don't go to any church. But, I also don't go to any meetings of atheists (assuming such events exist). My kids are smart enough to figure it out for themselves.
it's helpful for children to see churches aren't filled with spiteful crazies. if they never went, they'd never know. jmo.
Kinda like Lebron... doing it for the children
Careful...
Do you realize how many girls who go to their private schools turn into super s?
I think I've seen a do entary or two about that phenomenon.......
And RG outs me. Thanks bud.......
I love when hypocrites are exposed.
Especially when they post here in the politics forum.And RG outs me. Thanks bud.......
Keep working on your A-B-C's mouse. Eventually it will make sense.
I'll give you a hint, it can be found in this passage.......
More likely, it's because of the kids.
What? Why would somebody who doesn't believe there's a god want his own offspring wasting their time in an enterprise he believes has no foundation in fact? Especially a scientist.
The study, by sociologists Elaine Howard Ecklund of Rice and Kristen Schultz Lee of the University at Buffalo, found that many atheists want their children exposed to religion so that they can make up their own minds on what to believe. In addition, church may provide a better understanding of morality and ethics, and occasionally attending services may ease the conflict between spouses who disagree over the value of religion to their children, the study contends.
Care to share?
Keep acting like your the Science guru of ST eventually you will be exposed as the Google searching wannabee that you really are.
Is there a higher rate of child molestation at churches because obviously quite a bit of it goes on there.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...6/18/80877.htmThe three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.
The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down — the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.
Religious groups and victims’ supporters have been keenly interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950.
Protestant numbers have been harder to come by and are sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church; indeed, many congregations are independent, which makes reporting even more difficult.
Some of the only numbers come from three insurance companies — Church Mutual Insurance Co., GuideOne Insurance Co. and Brotherhood Mutual Insurance Co.
Together, they insure 165,495 churches and worship centers for liability against child sex abuse and other sexual misconduct, mostly Protestant congregations but a few other faiths as well. They also insure more than 5,500 religious schools, camps and other organizations.
The companies represent a large chunk of all U.S. Protestant churches. There are about 224,000 in the U.S., according to the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies, although that number excludes most historically black denominations and some other groups, which account for several thousand congregations.
Church Mutual, GuideOne and Brotherhood Mutual each provided statistics on sex abuse claims to The Associated Press, although they did not produce supporting do entation or a way to determine whether the reports were credible.
The largest company, Church Mutual, reported an average of about 100 sex abuse cases a year involving minors over the past decade. GuideOne, which has about half the clients of Church Mutual, said it has received an average of 160 reports of sex abuse against minors every year for the past two decades.
Brotherhood Mutual said it has received an average of 73 reports of child sex abuse and other sexual misconduct every year for the past 15 years. However, Brotherhood does not specify which victims are younger than 18 so it is impossible to accurately add that to the total cases.
Abuse reports do not always mean the accused was guilty, and they do not necessarily result in financial awards or settlements, the companies said. The reports include accusations against clergy, church staff and volunteers.
Even with hundreds of cases a year “that’s a very small number. That probably doesn’t even cons ute half,” said Gary Schoener, director of the Walk-In Counseling Center in Minneapolis, a consultant on hundreds of Protestant and Catholic clergy misconduct cases. “Sex abuse in any domain, including the church, is reported seldom. We know a small amount actually come forward.”
Tom Farr, general counsel and senior vice president of claims for GuideOne, based in West Des Moines, Iowa, said most abuse cases are resolved privately in court-ordered mediation. Awards can range from millions of dollars down to paying for counseling for victims, he said.
One of the largest settlements to date in Protestant churches involved the case of former Lutheran minister Gerald Patrick Thomas Jr. in Texas, where a jury several years ago awarded the minister’s victims nearly $37 million (euro28 million). Separate earlier settlements involving Thomas cost an additional $32 million.
When insurance companies first started getting reports of abuse from churches nearly two decades ago, the cases usually involved abuse that happened many years earlier. But over the past several years, the alleged abuse is more recent, which could reflect a greater awareness about reporting abuse, insurance companies said.
Insurance officials said the number of sex abuse cases has remained steady over the past two decades, but they also said churches are working harder to prevent child sex abuse by conducting background checks, installing windows in nurseries and play areas and requiring at least two adults in a room with a child.
A victims’ advocacy group has said the Southern Baptists, the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, could do more to prevent abuse by creating a list of accused clergy the public and churches could access.
“These are things people are en led to know,” said Christa Brown, a member of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, who says she was sexually abused as a child by a Southern Baptist minister. “The only way to prevent this crime is to break the code of silence and to have absolute transparency when allegations are raised.”
At the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in San Antonio this week, the Rev. Wade Burleson proposed a feasibility study into developing a national database of Southern Baptist ministers who have been “credibly accused of, personally confessed to, or legally been convicted of sexual harassment or abuse.”
A convention committee referred Burleson’s motion to the SBC executive committee, which will report back with findings and a recommendation at next year’s meeting in Indianapolis.
Southern Baptist President Frank Page said leaders are considering several options to help churches protect children against abuse.
“We believe that the Scripture teaches that the church should be an autonomous, independent organization,” Page said. “We encourage churches to hold accountable at the local level those who may have misused the trust of precious children and youth.”
Several years ago, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which represents moderates who have increasingly distanced themselves from the conservative-led Southern Baptists, started a list of accused clergy for churches, but not the public. Under pressure from victim advocates, the Texas group just released the names of some convicted sex offenders who may have been ministers in local congregations.
Joe Trull, editor of Christian Ethics Today and retired ethics professor at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, helped the Texas convention create its registry and says there are now about 11 cases involving clergy abuse with minors.
But he believes these are just the “tip of the iceberg” because churches don’t have to report abuse cases to the registry and aren’t likely to.
“The problem we’re having is that churches just weren’t sending the names,” Trull said. “In the normal scenario, they just try to keep it secret. We’re going to have to be more proactive and let them know if they don’t come forward, they’re helping to perpetuate this problem.”
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