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Where you been brah?
Bynum, brah.
I have a source both with the Lakers and a separate source with Houston who BOTH confirmed this trade is being discussed. They both said it might not happen in the next few weeks, but they gave it a 75-80% chance of this happening by the deadline.
HOU in: Pau Gasol, Derek Caracter
HOU out: Luis Scola, Kevin Martin
GS in: Kevin Martin
GS out: Monte Ellis
LAL in: Luis Scola, Monte Ellis
LAL out: Pau Gasol, Derek Caracter
Picks and $ are still being worked out. I am not even sure if this is allowed under the CBA but they both independetly confirmed this was currently being discussed.
Where you been brah?
Bynum, brah.
Iron brah. Been busy as fuark.
Bynum looking like an absolute beast. Doubt we get Howard so we need to hope Drew stays healthy. He has DOMINATED practice.
This is why this trade is baloney. Trading Ellis for Martin makes no sense. Martin actually makes more than Ellis this season and the next.
And Monta (along with Curry) is pretty much the franchise there.
They have been trying to move Ellis for the better part of 6 months now...
Ya, for something that is not worse financially or fit wise.
sick party last night imo
The trade would allow Curry to slide over to PG full-time and play alongside a legiimate SG.
Not sure what you mean by "legitimate SG"... And Curry has been the full-time PG in GSW.
Makes no sense paying more for lesser talent.
Not sure Martin is lesser talent. At this point Ellis is the player he is. I doubt he ever maxes his potential, and Martin is really playing well this year.
Hmm... if anything, Martin is the one dimensional guy whose main trick has declined the last season. Ellis had a slight drop on his scoring too, but his assists have been progressively getting better and better (7.7 last season).
Martin is younger, but Monta is much more athletic. Salary wise, Martin makes about $1.5 million more than Ellis the next two seasons, but Monta has a player option on the 3rd. At $11 million though, he's relatively speaking a bargain for a 21/8 guy.
If GSW wants to ship him, they probably can get better than Kevin Martin.
Not sure if serious.
I understand that, but they probably want a pure scorer in return, and Martin has a better at ude and can play off the ball better, as he's the better pure shooter.
Ellis is both the younger player (by two years) and cheaper player (by 1+ million per season), but he's had some at ude issues, and likes the ball in his hands to be most effective.
If a pick goes from LA to GS along with Martin, I think that's a fair deal and one that keeps Golden State similarly compe ive. Overall, Martin doesn't force things as much as Ellis, both in poor shots, and in turnovers, where Ellis has a career 1.6/1 A/TO ratio, and, over the last few seasons, his 5+ APG averages have brought about 3+ to even close to 4 TOPG averages.
I get it.
Sure if they get a nice pick it might make more sense because they aren't a legit threat, but the Curry/Martin back court would be worse defensively and even if they some what fit more naturally it's only because Kevin's game is less dynamic. Any offensive gains at all will be offset by their defense being a sieve.
Have you seen his increased percentages? Yeah, too small a sample size, but Martin has only taken a step back in PP because he's averaging fewer shots, both FG and FT. I'm sure if he wanted to he could get to the FT line at a higher clip, and he likely will.
As for Ellis, he's a very good player who has seemed to hit his plateau, save for this season's flukish 7+ APG.
Ellis certainly has a higher ceiling and more potential, but within winning basketball and not just stats for stats, I think Ellis is what he is.
That backcourt certainly puts up stats, but it's not a chemistry-based offense, but rather two individuals.
As for defense, good perimeter defense is best started with a strong frontcourt defense. Get some shot-blockers to guard the paint and their mediocre defense isn't the concern. I'm sure Jackson knows this. Ellis is much of a defender, save for his steals. He's more athletic, so he's not a flat-out liability, but I've never seen Ellis lockdown anyone, or be considered a plus defender.
Frankly, I don't care. I'd be pretty happy to see Gasol gone from Los Angeles, as I think they are undervaluing him pretty drastically and think any departure that doesn't fetch Howard or another superstar (of which Scola/Ellis is not) is a downgrade. I'm really not sure Ellis can coexist with Bryant. Ellis likes the ball in his hands, and he won't have that freedom in LA, more than likely.
Kevin Martin imo is as much of a stat as Ellis is. He's also an even worse defender and is injury prone. Golden State would be re ed to do that trade.
what has Kevin Martin helped win? His basketball is the epitome of putting up stats when your team really isn't compe ive. He can't defend, at all. Monta isn't the best, but at least when he tries he can actually defend adequately.
What do you mean this year's flukish 7+ assists from Monta? Last year he averaged almost 6 and the year before over 5. Kevin Martin scoring 19 points a game isn't a step forward, it's what he's always done. He also has a career worse FG% than Monta by a decent margin so if anything is the fluke, it's Kevin's increased FG%.
and yeah it also wouldn't be a good trade for LA. Scola is an over-glorified role player who has put up OK numbers on a bad team his entire career.
I'm not trying to say the gap between Monta and Martin is massive, but I just don't like your arguments. I like Monta better, but I don't think it would be a terrible trade for GS. However, trying to act like Kmart is so much better than Monta is silly to me.
Monta is 1/2 the franchise in Golden State. Last time Martin had a similar role he was jettisoned by the Kings.
If you're trading 1/2 your franchise might aswell get something good in return.
I would also have no problem seeing Pau walk. But I do see why Lakers would want Ellis. Kobe is only getting older, and they really have no legit SG backup behind him. They also been craving for a starting quality PG, and Ellis can play that role.
Which is very seldom.
As for Martin, yeah, I understand everything you're saying and said such just a month ago when he was traded New Orleans. However, play him alongside a good PG, using him off the ball in the Rip Hamilton style, and I think he stats can work well within that type of offense, maybe bringing more cohesive flow to the offense than having another player who requires the ball in his hands to be most effective. Some of the idea is what's lost in SG effectiveness is gained in PG effectiveness as Curry picks up the slack.
I said flukish because he's not done the total before, but also because he's never had this significant a jump in APG since he became a starter. It's always been very incremental, and this is a HUGE jump from 5.6 to 7.7, so, yes, fluke. He's also not holding fast to his career 1.6/1 A/TO ratio, as he's currently almost 2.5/1, which would be the first time he's ever been better than 2/1.What do you mean this year's flukish 7+ assists from Monta? Last year he averaged almost 6 and the year before over 5. Kevin Martin scoring 19 points a game isn't a step forward, it's what he's always done. He also has a career worse FG% than Monta by a decent margin so if anything is the fluke, it's Kevin's increased FG%.
As for Martin, I like him because he's not a volume shooter to score. Ellis requires roughly 20 shots per game for his recent run of 24ish PPG averages. That's not efficient at all. Martin, however, has a career of 12 shots per game for his career 19 PPG average. That is efficient. And while his shooting percentage is a bit flukish, it's been consistently around 44/45% the last few years, and his 3-FG% has been increasing season to season. As of last year he was already a better 3-point shooter than Ellis, and he's always been the better player to get attempt/make FTs.
I get the objections, which is why I said include a 1st (based upon the initial post). And yes, I probably should have clarified the initial comment a bit better, but this trade isn't nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. This trade likely brings back a 20 PPG scorer while freeing up lots of touches/shots for others, which, for Golden State, might not be a bad thing.
What the are you reading, because it's not my posts. I never once said Martin was better. I said he was a significantly lesser talent, and could bring a more efficient offensive system to Golden State which better maximizes other already-in-place talent like Curry/Wright/Rush.
I never once said he was better, other than he's a more efficient scorer.
In fact, I even corrected the statement that Martin was younger than Ellis, further devaluing the trade of Martin to Golden State for Ellis.
Don't know what you're reading, but I think you're reading too far into my very general statements (save for the last post I made).
He takes 20 shots because he's the go to guy. Who else is going to take shots outside of Curry and maybe Lee? Biedrins? Dorrel Wright? Brandon Rush?
I'm 99% positive that if Martin goes to GSW, he will be asked to carry the same load. And I don't think he can.
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