Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense"

[clambake]

Why?

And, I disagree with Wild Cobra that Zimmerman necessarily made any back choices.

George Zimmerman observed a su ious person in a neighborhood experience a rash of property crimes. He reported the su ious person and worked to keep him in sight until police arrived.

The only bad choice after that would be if Zimmerman is the one that provoked Martin when they finally encountered one another and there's no evidence to support that.

If it went down the way I have suggested, Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

He was legally carrying a weapon.

He was legally in the community.

He was justifiably concerned about the su ious person (walking through the neighborhood in the rain and seeming to be looking at houses).

And, if Martin was banging his head against the sidewalk to the point he feared for his life or thought he might suffer serious injury, it was the right choice to end the assault by shooting Martin.

I think it was unfortunate. I think it was a tragedy. I think Zimmerman regrets the outcome and probably even wishes he'd never seen Trayvon Martin walking down the sidewalk that evening. But, I don't think the choices Zimmerman made were bad.

so...sounds like you just said that george profiled the kid.

[Trill Clinton]

If that was the case, id assume zimmerman would have just unloaded a clip before even an altercation.

he needed a reason to use his gun first and he got it. he didn't bring his gun out that night for show n tell.

and he was a self appointed neighborhood watchmen, the neighbors did not appoint him.

[cantthinkofanything]

He didn't run when they were face to face. He ran when he saw zimmerman from a distance.

I'm inclined to believe that if Trayvon would have taken off running when they stood toe to toe, he would have gotten shot in the back multiple times.

So you go from saying Zimmerman went after Travon knowing that he was going to shoot him knowing the self defense law worked in his favor. So he would be smart enough to know that but then dumb enough to shoot Travon in the back? Bull .

[CosmicCowboy]

So you go from saying Zimmerman went after Travon knowing that he was going to shoot him knowing the self defense law worked in his favor. So he would be smart enough to know that but then dumb enough to shoot Travon in the back? Bull .

You're just feeding the troll. He's an idiot.

[ElNono]

this...i have every right to check out a su ious guy ESPECIALLY if im part of neighborhood watch.

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?

[CosmicCowboy]

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?

A reasonable person would haul ass and avoid (especially a young healthy athlete like Martin) Zimmerman and call 911 instead of confronting him and sucker punching him. Mistakes were made on both sides. One of them ended up dead. happens.

[Trill Clinton]

So you go from saying Zimmerman went after Travon knowing that he was going to shoot him knowing the self defense law worked in his favor. So he would be smart enough to know that but then dumb enough to shoot Travon in the back? Bull .

yup, why is it so hard to not believe he had murder on his mind when he saw trayvon?

[DarrinS]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.

[Wild Cobra]

so...sounds like you just said that george profiled the kid.

Oh My God...

That's where we went wrong...

We aren't being politically correct about the shooting.

[Trill Clinton]

You're just feeding the troll. He's an idiot.

you have your opinion on what when down as do I. you.

[Wild Cobra]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.

Maybe the defense council was too shocked by the stupidity of the statement. Maybe the defense knew it was so stupid he didn't need to remind the judge.

Either way, it wasn't a jury trial. Just a hearing.

[Yonivore]

He's got a hoodie! Where's my gun!?!

You're not helping make your case.

Zimmerman said he was su ious because he was walking around looking at houses, in the rain, and he looked like he was on drugs or something.

The word hoodie didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked about clothing.

The word black didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked what race the person was.

[Wild Cobra]

he needed a reason to use his gun first and he got it. he didn't bring his gun out that night for show n tell.

and he was a self appointed neighborhood watchmen, the neighbors did not appoint him.

Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?

Make it an unsolved crime?

For your hypothesis to work, he had to rely on no eye witnesses.

[Wild Cobra]

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?

A criminal, and instead of confronting him, get out of the way and call the police.

[cantthinkofanything]

Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?

Make it an unsolved crime?

For your hypothesis to work, he had to rely on no eye witnesses.

Really good point. Trill is saying that he came out that night with murder on his mind. He'll also say that he called the cops and set the whole thing up knowing that he could use the self defense excuse. But also that if Trayvon ran, he would have shot him in the back anyway.

[ElNono]

A reasonable person would haul ass and avoid (especially a young healthy athlete like Martin) Zimmerman and call 911 instead of confronting him and sucker punching him. Mistakes were made on both sides. One of them ended up dead. happens.

But that's the point. You could just as simply argue Martin "stood his ground". I'm not saying there were no mistakes on either side, but it's a lot easier to think about a situation like that in front of your keyboard than in the heat of the moment.

[Blake]

You're not helping make your case.

Zimmerman said he was su ious because he was walking around looking at houses, in the rain, and he looked like he was on drugs or something.

The word hoodie didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked about clothing.

The word black didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked what race the person was.

"There's someone walking around!

In the RAIN!!

Yoni get your gun!"

[ElNono]

A criminal, and instead of confronting him, get out of the way and call the police.

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.

[Trill Clinton]

Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?

Make it an unsolved crime?

For your hypothesis to work, he had to rely on no eye witnesses.

people dont think rationally remember

[ElNono]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.

It's quite possible the defense won't talk until they get to the trial.

[Yonivore]

why wouldn't he be able to catch up, he was in his daddie's truck.

Well, if you were familiar with the neighborhood and where the shooting took place, when Zimmerman said, " ! he's running." Zimmerman left his truck parked because Martin took off running away from the street and to an area that runs behind two rows of townhome -- where there isn't a vehicle access.

His history of violence on his own wife and law enforcement. THis dude fought a cop, doesn't listen to 911 operators, he has no regard for the law.

I haven't heard about the wife but the cop was in plain clothes and accosting a friend of his. Yeah, he copped an at ude and got arrested for it but, the charges were dismissed.

Tell me about the wife.

They began to stand toe to toe because zimmerman drove down the block, followed him then approached him, trayvon fought for his life and zimmerman murdered him.

Not even the investigators that wrote the affidavit are alleging that. There is zero evidence Zimmerman ever reentered his truck after he said, " ! he's running," and started following.

How long was that phone call?

That's an important question. One of the transcripts I read I think showed it was over 4 minutes long and that it lasted another minute and a half after the " ! he's running" comment.

I'll see if I can find that transcript again and verify.

The more important question -- and this can be verified by the time stamps on both the Zimmerman call and the girlfriend call -- is how long after Zimmerman hung up with police did the altercation occur. What time did the Zimmerman call end and what time did the girlfriend call get terminated because of the fight?

I'd like to know. I'm sure it'll be presented at trial.

My theory is the shorter the time difference, the more likely it is Martin returned to Zimmerman and confronted him. The longer the time span, the more possible it is Zimmerman continued his search for Martin after the call and confronted him.

But, another piece of evidence will also demonstrate this -- how long after the Zimmerman call ended did the police arrive at the scene. I've heard less than 3 minutes...which means the shooting happened no more than three minutes after the end of the call.

[Trill Clinton]

Really good point. Trill is saying that he came out that night with murder on his mind. He'll also say that he called the cops and set the whole thing up knowing that he could use the self defense excuse. But also that if Trayvon ran, he would have shot him in the back anyway.

sorry, should have said he had murder on his mind when he saw a black kid walking home in the rain.

[DarrinS]

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.

"Stand your ground" law may not even be an issue. IF what Z claims is true, and what evidence made public seems to suggest, that Z was getting his head pounded into the sidewalk, then it may be straight up self-defense.

[Yonivore]

yup, why is it so hard to not believe he had murder on his mind when he saw trayvon?

Because there's no evidence -- yet presented -- that he murdered Trayvon.

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.

LOL...

A 6'3" athletic football player thinking he can't outrun a older, slightly pudgy man of 5'9"?

LOL...

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That's good....

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