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  1. #176
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Judging from Nono's scouting report, we couldn't even get a real flying bus.

    there *will* be plenty of scooby snacks though, hopefully, FWIW.
    <puts Cheech voice> Lots of flowers, man...

  2. #177
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    LOL...

    Be quite?

    I questioned you because you appear as a single minded M$M lemming for the election. We have too many people voting like that. Deciding from soundbites, union propaganda, etc. When will you stop listening to what the media masters say and start seeking information out for yourself?
    Changing the subject I see. Besides not liking any of Obama's policies, if you recall, it wasn't about not having a real job as much as it was having zero experience in any executive type position.
    One could say Ryan also has no executive experience, but that doesn't matter as much since he's the Veep.

    My point was that if you want to say that "experience matters" for a job, I look at Ryan's experience and don't see a whole lot there.

    Obama sponsored 16 in his short time, none of which went anywhere. Only one made it past committee to a Judiciary review before going no where else.
    Technically, Wikipedia notes that Obama was the primary sponsor for two bills (Congo relief and corporate jet policy), and a few amendments, but your overall point is valid. However, I don't think Obama ran as any sort of policy wonk. Ryan's claim to fame is being the Republican's budget guru.

    He feels as I do maybe. You should always pay off the debt unless you are in recession or war.
    If he wanted to pay off the debt, then he should probably allow the tax cuts to expire, or cut Medicaid.

    And you trust the CBO?
    If you've got another think tank saying the budget would be balanced earlier, feel free to share.

  3. #178
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    ps how the are you not bolded yet man? :P
    I don't even know what that means, Jenny.


  4. #179
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    Technically, Wikipedia notes that Obama was the primary sponsor for two bills (Congo relief and corporate jet policy), and a few amendments, but your overall point is valid. However, I don't think Obama ran as any sort of policy wonk. Ryan's claim to fame is being the Republican's budget guru.
    That's not just Ryan's claim, I've heard it said the Republican Party and more than a few Democrats claim he's the most knowledgeable person on the federal budget in either house of Congress.

    If he wanted to pay off the debt, then he should probably allow the tax cuts to expire, or cut Medicaid.
    Well there's reasonable disagreement over whether or not allowing the tax rate to revert to 2002 levels will raise revenue.

    Conservative believe cutting the debt and deficit involved reducing federal spending and advancing pro-growth policies, including cutting taxes, reducing oppressive regulation, and encouraging entrepreneurship.

    I hope they get to try their hand at it next year. Obama's plan isn't working and doesn't appear likely to work.

  5. #180
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Conservative believe cutting the debt and deficit involved reducing federal spending and advancing pro-growth policies, including cutting taxes, reducing oppressive regulation, and encouraging entrepreneurship.
    What does Ryan believe? Because his actual voting record doesn't express that at all.

  6. #181
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    I would suggest it's not that important now that he's on board with the Republican nominee that has his own plan.
    I respectfully disagree. Ryan is known for his fiscal policy moreso than anything else; if you're discarding that, I don't see a good reason for picking him for veep.

  7. #182
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    That's not just Ryan's claim, I've heard it said the Republican Party and more than a few Democrats claim he's the most knowledgeable person on the federal budget in either house of Congress.
    It would seem to be a false claim then. You would think a fiscal policy wonk wouldn't come up with a budget and then reject certain parts a year later.

  8. #183
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    I respectfully disagree. Ryan is known for his fiscal policy moreso than anything else; if you're discarding that, I don't see a good reason for picking him for veep.

    whenever I'm not posting I delegate authority for you to be my political spokesman...(as long as it's nothing but Obama love)

    Nice job you're successfully leveraging my thoughts...

    Obama / Biden Forever

  9. #184
    Whom Gods Destroy z0sa's Avatar
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    obama biden forever

  10. #185
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    Conservative believe cutting the debt and deficit involved reducing federal spending and advancing pro-growth policies, including cutting taxes, reducing oppressive regulation, and encouraging entrepreneurship.
    Dear Paul,
    I don’t want to see you anymore.
    Two weeks ago, I declared my love for you. I said you would focus the election on fiscal responsibility. I envisioned you leading a movement of young people to control runaway spending.

    My friends said I was crazy. They said you weren’t who I thought you were. Paul Krugman said you were a fake fiscal conservative. Scott Lemieux called you a standard-issue right-winger. Jim Surowiecki compared you to Barry Goldwater. I didn’t believe the naysayers. Sometimes they said you were too extreme. Sometimes they said you were a squishy hypocrite for supporting TARP and the auto bailout. It seemed like they just wanted to make you look bad one way or the other. I thought they were just playing politics.

    I knew you weren’t perfect. I didn’t like your vote against the Simpson-Bowles debt reduction plan. I worried that your weakness for tax cuts would squander the savings from your budget cuts. But I should have studied your record more carefully. I didn’t understand how pivotal you were in sinking the budget deal between President Obama and Speaker Boehner. I paid too much attention to what you said about cutting the defense budget and not enough attention to what you did. You accused the military of requesting too little money—a concern that makes no sense to anyone familiar with the acquisitive habits of government agencies. You also objected to setting financial savings targets and forcing the Pentagon to meet them, even though that’s how you proposed to control domestic spending.

    I tried to stand by you, Paul. I didn’t care that you grabbed federal money for your district. Every congressman does that. I gave you credit, not blame, for supporting TARP. I saw that vote as evidence that you, unlike many of your conservative colleagues, cared more about economic consequences than about making a statement. I winced every time you talked about your hard-line position on abortion, but I told my friends that voting records are misleading, that what a politician chooses to work on is more important, that social issues aren’t your thing, that your real interest is the budget. I even apologized for your dogmatism on climate change. I was willing to believe that you were skeptical of regulation but that you hadn’t really studied the science and that when you did, you’d come around. Jonah Goldberg poked fun at me for sometimes being so open-minded that my brains fall out. And you know what? (Drum roll, please ...) He’s right.

    I hate to admit it, but Krugman nailed me on this one. I was looking for Mr. Right—a fact-based, sensible fiscal conservative—and I tried to shoehorn you into that role.

    That’s where you let me down, Paul. Since Mitt Romney tapped you as his running mate, you haven’t stood for fiscal restraint. You’ve attacked it. You warned voters in North Carolina and Virginia that cuts in the defense budget would take away their tax-supported jobs. And I cringe when I recall what I said about you and Medicare. “Ryan destroys Romney’s ability to continue making the dishonest, anti-conservative argument that Obamacare is evil because it cuts Medicare,” I wrote. “Now Romney will have to defend the honest conservative argument, which is that Medicare spending should be controlled.”

    I couldn’t have been more wrong. Four days after Romney put you on the ticket, you began parroting his Medicare shtick. You protested that Obama’s $700 billion savings in the future growth of Medicare payments to providers—a spending reduction that any sensible conservative president would have sought, and that you had previously included in your budget plan—would “lead to fewer services for seniors.” You depicted a horror scenario: “a $3,600 cut in benefits for current seniors. Nearly one out of six hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business.” You assured seniors that the Romney-Ryan agenda for Medicare “does not affect your benefits.” And you promised future retirees “guaranteed affordability” of health care.

    In short, you adopted every tactic in the liberal playbook. You framed a reduced rate of growth as a draconian cut. You inflated the likely impact of the reduction. You denounced any loss of services as unacceptable. You promised not to touch seniors’ benefits. And you reaffirmed a fiscally unsustainable guarantee. By my count, you’ve now done this in at least six speeches and rallies. Every day, you’re reinforcing the culture of en lement and making it harder to rein in retirement programs.

    Oh, Paul. And I thought you were so rugged.

    You even embraced the delusion that government is a threat to Medicare, when in fact government is the funder of Medicare. This misconception used to be a joke, an illustration of popular ignorance. But now you’re peddling it. “Mitt Romney and I are going to stop that raid on Medicare,” you told voters in New Hampshire a week ago. “We're going to restore this program, and we'll get these bureaucrats out of the way of standing between our senior citizens and their Medicare.”

    I still see promise in you, Paul. I love it when you challenge the rhetoric of public “investment.” I admire your fixation on the Grim Reaper of debt. I’m sympathetic to your argument that student loans and insurance subsidies distort markets. I swoon when you crusade against the generational greed and fiscally hollow promises of the state. But if you won’t stand by your principles when it counts, Paul—if you’re just going to demagogue Medicare like an old-style liberal—then you’re useless to this country. I want my love letter back.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ervatism_.html

  11. #186
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    To be fair, if Wild Cobra was born before 1950, he has seen teen pregnancy rates shoot up in his lifetime -- twice. I peeked at the thread and that's what he said that he had witnessed a "dramatic rise in teen pregnancies in his lifetime."

    But, WC, if you think teen pregnancy is more prevalent now than when you were younger, you're wrong. It's decreased about 30% since 1950 with a slight bump during the "blow-jobs-aren't-sex" presidency.
    Yes, and abortion has dramatically increased. I have seen many studies looking for the information, and the information is so convoluted. I haven't found any that are just unplanned pregnancies for teens that go back to the 60's or 70's. Birth rates... Yes. How many pregnancies were aborted though?

  12. #187
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  13. #188
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    "increase the “reputational costs” of peddling bad info"

    Obviously, politicians' brazen lying has NO REPUTATIONAL costs.

  14. #189
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    nope.

    when journalists leave the fact checking to the fact checkers (which raises the question: WTF are journalists for anymore?) and the readers leave the thinking to the so-called fact-checkers, the electorate remains essentially supine to whatever gets thrown out there by propagandists and special interest lobbies.

  15. #190
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    as well as to "myside" bias, of course

  16. #191
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    paper and TV journalist are to deliver the corporate-approved (advertisers approved) (dis)information in tiny sound bites to people who think they are getting "news". TV/paper news is above a business whose main revenues are advertisers NOT to be alienated.

  17. #192
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    whereas as you cut and paste ideologically vetted information in tiny sound bites, in hopes that SpursTalk posters will receive it as "news"

    resemble what you hate, much?

  18. #193
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^It's raining logic up in here.

  19. #194
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    whereas as you cut and paste ideologically vetted information in tiny sound bites, in hopes that SpursTalk posters will receive it as "news"

    resemble what you hate, much?
    and your perfectly "original" ideas always astonish me

    and TB piles on like the little chicken he is.

  20. #195
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    lol @ getting slapped by a chicken .

  21. #196
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    Yes, and abortion has dramatically increased. I have seen many studies looking for the information, and the information is so convoluted. I haven't found any that are just unplanned pregnancies for teens that go back to the 60's or 70's. Birth rates... Yes. How many pregnancies were aborted though?
    I suspect the same thing but, it's hard to find a study that correlates abortion with teen pregnancy. Also, with HIPA and teens no longer having to notify their parents (in some states), it's hard to even know what is the teen pregnancy or abortion rate.

  22. #197
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    It would seem to be a false claim then. You would think a fiscal policy wonk wouldn't come up with a budget and then reject certain parts a year later.
    Maybe his boss is rejecting certain parts. He's a team player; just ask Wyden and Bowles.

    But, if you're going to get hung up on this, should we look at Obama's diversion from his voting record?

  23. #198
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    I respectfully disagree. Ryan is known for his fiscal policy moreso than anything else; if you're discarding that, I don't see a good reason for picking him for veep.
    Who's discarding it? Why would it even have to be binary? I've already suggested there may have been nuances regarding his plan to cut Medicare with Obama's plan to cut Medicare...and, we certainly know there were nuances to Obama's plan with which Ryan disagreed early on; for instance, raiding Medicare to pay for Obamacare and establishing the death panel to cut costs.

    You're simply being disingenuous to suggest that just because both Obama and Ryan proposed cuts that they're plans were similar. Further, the plan -- well, at least the cutting part of the plan -- is off the table. It appears Romney is going with a hybrid that leaves Medicare alone for senior and those over 55 and establishing an option for those under.

    You can disagree with the plan but, part of Ryan's original plan is there, it's just that Romney -- no fiscal or economic slouch himself -- made modifications and improvements. And, since he's not in the Legislature, Ryan can still be the top dog fiscal policy wonk in Congress. Certainly no one else in that body has stepped up to the plate like Ryan.

  24. #199
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Maybe his boss is rejecting certain parts. He's a team player; just ask Wyden and Bowles.

    But, if you're going to get hung up on this, should we look at Obama's diversion from his voting record?
    Trust me, I pretty much despise how he's gone against everything he said re: civil liberties/transparency/etc etc

  25. #200
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    Trust me, I pretty much despise how he's gone against everything he said re: civil liberties/transparency/etc etc
    Why do I care? We're not talking about you.

    On the topic of the thread, the "fact checkers" are wrong or misleading. Of the checked facts in that Yahoo article, for instance, Ryan said nothing demonstrably false...they simply either said "yeah, well, Ryan did it too (meaning Ryan's statements about Obama are true) or they simply changed the intent of Ryan's statement (i.e. the GM Plant closing being about when it closed -- and even they got that wrong -- instead of about Obama's promise that his policies would keep it open for another 100 years if only they'd elect him.)

    But, if you want to talk about how positions have changed, I'd stack Ryan up against Obama (or Biden) any day.

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