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  1. #176
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Likely a combo, non-exclusive, of both in a begging the question sort of way.
    Good point. It could well be a mixture of the evil GOP leaders aware of #1 and #2 convincing the stupid to go along with them. I would say that is much more likely.

    At least we can agree on something.

  2. #177
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    How to Rig an Election

    The G.O.P. aims to paint the country red

    But as the twentieth century came to a close, a brave new world of election rigging emerged, on a scale that might have prompted Huey Long's stunned admiration. Tracing the sea changes in our electoral process, we see that two major events have paved the way for this lethal form of election manipulation:

    the mass adoption of computerized voting technology,

    and the outsourcing of our elections to a handful of corporations that operate in the shadows, with little oversight or accountability.


    Three days before the election, however, a poll conducted by the Omaha World-Herald showed a dead heat, with 47 percent of respondents favoring each candidate. David Moore, who was then managing editor of the Gallup Poll, told the paper, "We can't predict the outcome."

    Hagel's victory in the general election, invariably referred to as an "upset," handed the seat to the G.O.P. for the first time in eighteen years. Hagel trounced Nelson by fifteen points. Even for those who had factored in the governor's deteriorating numbers and a last-minute barrage of negative ads, this divergence from pre-election polling was enough to raise eyebrows across the nation.
    Few Americans knew that until shortly before the election, Hagel had been chairman of the company whose computerized voting machines would soon count his own votes: Election Systems & Software (then called American Information Systems). Hagel stepped down from his post just two weeks before announcing his candidacy. Yet he retained millions of dollars in stock in the McCarthy Group, which owned ES&S. And Michael McCarthy, the parent company's founder, was Hagel's campaign treasurer.

    Whether Hagel's relationship to ES&S ensured his victory is open to speculation. But the surprising scale of his win awakened a new fear among voting-rights activists and raised a disturbing question: Who controls the new technology of Election Night?

    "Why would someone who owns a voting-machine company want to run for office?" asked Charlie Matulka, a Democrat who contested Hagel's Senate seat in 2002. Speaking at a press conference shortly before the election, he added: "Is this the fox guarding the henhouse?" A construction worker with limited funding and name recognition, Matulka was obviously a less formidable compe or than Nelson. Still, Hagel won an astonishing 83 percent of the vote - among the largest margins of victory in any statewide race in Nebraska's history. And with nearly 400,000 registered Democrats on the rolls, Matulka managed to scrape up only 70,290 votes.

    A privatized, secret ballot count must be viewed as a violation of our civil rights. Once that principle is clear, as it is now in Germany and Ireland, the rest will naturally follow. If we the people do not feel the outrage, or lack the courage to fight for this most basic right of American self-governance, who will?

    http://readersupportednews.org/opini...ig-an-election

  3. #178
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    Suppression Surges as Election Nears

    ‘It Feels Like Sabotage’ for Nevada’s Early Voters
    Kate Sedinger works with the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada—one of the groups that paired up with Cuéntame to create some of the PSAs we just told you about. Kate writes in that there are already problems with early voting for some people in Nevada:
    Saturday was the first day of early voting in Nevada. PLAN had an early voting rally in Sun Valley, which is a community just north of Reno that has a high percentage of low income and Latino residents. Those residents are the reason why we chose that location for our rally. I’ve never waiting in line for more than a couple of minutes to early vote at the university or some of the shopping centers in higher income neighborhoods.
    As KOLO 8 reports, however, people waited hours in line—and that some were even asked for identification, which isn’t law in Nevada.

    Colorado’s Arapahoe County’s Sticky Situation
    Our Colorado-based community journalist, Rosemary Harris Lytle has had a busy week. She heads the Colorado/Montana/Wyoming State Conference of the NAACP, and because Colorado is a battleground state, every vote will definitely count there. You may remember Secretary of State Scott Gessler, who demanded the Department of Homeland Security hand over an immigrant database in order to purge voters, and then gave up on using it. Rosemary writes in that Gessler now faces allegations of state ethics rules violations.

    But that’s not all. This election could well be decided by Arapahoe County voters, who are essentially split three ways between Democrat, Republican, and independent voters. Rosemary tells us that The Denver Post is reporting a troubling update in the swing county:
    More than 230,000 ballots last week were mailed to Arapahoe County’s voters in envelopes that possibly contained a participation sticker that rubbed up against the ballot and in some cases left a faint, near-linear mark that appeared exactly where voters draw a line to select their candidates.
    The story concludes that the voting machines won’t count the marks, but this may not be the last we hear about Arapahoe County.

    Maricopa County Strikes Again and Again
    You may remember we told you last week that Maricopa County misled Spanish speaking voters about the day on which to cast their ballots. The county’s election department explained it was an honest mistake, and that it fixed the error. The Phoenix New Times is reporting, however, that the county also produced Spanish language bookmarks with the wrong date as well.

    But wait, it’s Maricopa, so of course, there’s more. Some early voters are getting letters stating that their signatures need verification. The letters allow voters four business days to respond from the date on the letter so that the ballot can be validated. One voter, Jason Spence, took to his social media site to explain that although his letter was dated October 22, he didn’t receive it until after work on October 24. Spense claims that none of the phone numbers listed were answered, and none had the voicemail set up. He kept trying and subsequently got through and was able to verify his ballot. Voting Rights Watch called all four phone numbers Thursday morning, and verified his initial experience: no answer, and no voicemail setup. When we called back Thursday evening, one of the phone numbers was answered, but although the letter is also addressed in Spanish, no one at the Election’s Department was able to talk in Spanish, aside from kindly asking to call back “mañana.”

    Intimidating Letters Sent to Florida Voters
    The Advancement Project tipped us that voters in at least 26 Florida counties have been sent fraudulent letters questioning eligible voters’ citizenship. Whoever is behind the intimidation is violation of Florida law, and could be charged with a third degree felony and fined up to $5,000. Voting rights advocates demanded federal investigation into the matter, and the Tampa Bay Times reports that the FBI is looking into the letters.

    Voter ID: A Threat to Tribal Sovereignty
    Hillary Abe, our Community Journalist who’s keeping an eye on Native American voter disenfranchisement, writes in that The National Congress of American Indians has released a new report that outlines how voter ID laws disproportionately affect Native voters and threatens tribal sovereignty. Indian Country Today explains:
    The new report, “Voter ID laws & the Native Vote: States of Concern,” says that state voter ID requirements create three problems. First, it strips American Indians of their rights when states refuse to accept tribal IDs. Second, it costs money, travel and time for American Indians to get a state ID. And, these laws risk disenfranchising voters by rejecting provisional ballots. Three states - Alaska, Florida and Minnesota - either have rules or proposed measures that do not allow the use of tribal IDs for voting.
    Minnesota’s voter ID ballot measure would require a physical address with which to vote in the future. Natives who live in rural areas use PO Boxes instead of physical addresses, because some homes are in areas that are so remote, there are no street names or addresses.


    Don’t think it’s all that hard to get an ID? Then watch Hillary’s video, which might help you reconsider.
    Minnesota County Commissioner Candidate Stands Corrected
    Community Journalist Lolla Mohammed Nur is based in Minnesota, where voters will decide whether to amend their state’s Cons ution to make state-issued identification a requirement for voting. Lolla writes in that a local candidate was more than confused, and made a wildly incorrect claim about registered voters:
    The Twin Cities Daily Planet recently published a column correcting a claim made by Sue Jeffers, a candidate for Ramsey County Commissioner and a voter ID proponent. Jeffers allegedly claimed there are more ballots than registered voters in the Twin Cities during a local radio interview, a claim which Mary Turck, editor of the Twin Cities Daily Planet, refuted. Turck interviewed a Hennepin County Elections Manager, who said it is impossible for there to be more ballots than registered voters, because Minnesota state law has procedures that account for every person who votes and every ballot cast.
    Read Turck’s column in the Twin City Daily Planet for more.

    Pennsylvania Still Misinforming its Voters
    Our Philly-based Community journalist James Cersonky writes in that Pennsylvania has been slow to catch up with the ruling that affirms that voters won’t need an ID to vote on Election Day:
    Though Pennsylvanians won’t need photo IDs this election cycle, voters are still receiving twisted or flatly incorrect information about ID requirements. A pe ion backed by the Advancement Project, Philadelphia’s Public Interest Law Center, and the state ACLU states that thousands of seniors received a mailing from the state’s Department of Aging that included a card saying, “Voters are required to show photo ID on Election Day.” The pe ion also notes that state Department of Transportation centers, which administer voting-only IDs, still had up outdated posters telling people that they needed ID as recently as October 11. Meanwhile, the state has barely changed the “Show It” ads that it was running before the voter ID law was put on hold.
    On Wednesday, Judge Robert Simpson asked the state to respond to the pe ion, filed on October 19, by October 30. In response, the pe ioners have filed a follow-up motion for the state to move faster so it has enough time before the November 6 election to mail corrective notices and resolve other misleading information—or, if the pe ioners’ case is rejected, to give enough time for an appeal.
    All Time Low Turnout Expected for Military Voters
    Military voters’ absentee ballot requests have dropped to an all time low—especially in the key swing states of Ohio and Virginia. Although Congress moved to increase participation for those stationed overseas, the Department of Defense has resisted the move. No military voter assistance office has been installed, leaving thousands of overseas troops disenfranchised in this election.


    https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/10/26-10

  4. #179
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    "Whether Hagel's relationship to ES&S ensured his victory is open to speculation"

    or for the confirmation bias crowd, absolute, rock solid proof!!!111

  5. #180
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Good point. It could well be a mixture of the evil GOP leaders aware of #1 and #2 convincing the stupid to go along with them. I would say that is much more likely.

    At least we can agree on something.
    In a begging the question sort of way.

  6. #181
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    Virginia Prevents 350,000 Released Felons From Being Able To Vote

    Virginia is one of four states that permanently takes away voting rights from anyone who has a felony conviction, and the voting rights can only be restored by appealing directly to Virginia’s governor.

    That means that about 350,000 people who have been released from prison have been disenfranchised under the felony statute, about 242,000 of whom are African American, according to Colorlines.

    While Gov. Bob McDonnell (R-VA) streamlined the restoration of voting rights for felons by processing the applications within 60 days instead of waiting months, voting rights organizations say McDonnell should eliminate the process so that released felons have their voting rights automatically restored.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-able-to-vote/


    "Four states – Virginia, Florida, Kentucky, and Iowa – permanently disenfranchise all individuals convicted of a felony, even when they are no longer incarcerated. Overall, this approach has pushed more than 5.8 million citizens into the margins of democracy, including 4.3 million (75%) who have returned to the community."

    http://naacp.3cdn.net/10d16ab1c3d4b10b11_x7m6bzkgj.pdf

    All 4 are of course RED STATES.

    ===============

    Felony disfranchisement disproportionately impacts people and communities of color.Over 1.4 million of our disfranchised citizens are African-American. The development of felony disfranchisement law is tied to the history of racial discrimination in America. In 1870, during the post-Civil War Reconstruction era, the Fifteenth Amendment was passed banning race-based disfranchisement.

    In order to restrict the political participation of newly-enfranchised African-Americans, Southern states began to use criminal disfranchisement laws as a tool to suppress the African-American vote. While disfranchisement laws already existed, a number of Southern states tailored their laws to target African-Americans.

    For example, Mississippi revised its cons ution to impose disfranchisement as a penalty specifically for crimes of which African-Americans were most frequently convicted. Over 100 years later, these laws remain in effect.



    The scope and impact of the disenfranchisement laws in the United States are beyond comparison, especially with regard to the continued deprivation of voting rights after incarceration.

    Of the 5.3 million Americans barred from voting due to a criminal conviction, most of which are non-violent in nature, thirty-nine percent have fully completed their sentences, including probation and parole, yet such individuals are still deprived of their right to vote. In several states, people with criminal records encounter a variety of other barriers to voting, including, most often, bersome restoration processes or lengthy waiting periods before rights restoration applications may even be submitted.


    http://www.aclu.org/voting-rights/voter-disfranchisement

  7. #182
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    This doesn't pass the smell test.

    Are we to believe that 350,000 of a population of about 8,100,000 are felons?

    Seriously... 4.3% of the populations have committed felonies?

  8. #183
    Controversy Koolaid_Man's Avatar
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    This doesn't pass the smell test.

    Are we to believe that 350,000 of a population of about 8,100,000 are felons?

    Seriously... 4.3% of the populations have committed felonies?
    dude..did you pull an all nighter on this site...go to bed man and stop being creepy...

  9. #184
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    dude..did you pull an all nighter on this site...go to bed man and stop being creepy...
    LOL...

    Are your panties in a bunch?

    Seriously though, are we to believe that 4.3% of Virginia's population are felons?

  10. #185
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    This doesn't pass the smell test.

    Are we to believe that 350,000 of a population of about 8,100,000 are felons?

    Seriously... 4.3% of the populations have committed felonies?
    "Do Your Own Research"
    --WC

  11. #186
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    This doesn't pass the smell test.

    Are we to believe that 350,000 of a population of about 8,100,000 are felons?

    Seriously... 4.3% of the populations have committed felonies?
    You'll probably be surprised what is considered a STATE (not Federal) felony crime. TX has 1000s of them. Felony has connotation Federal, violent, fatal, extremely serious, but it ain't so.

    http://www.egmlaw.com/crimes.html

    And many states make expunging state felony from your record extremely long, expensive, or impossible, meaning STATE felons will be denied nearly all jobs, certainly good jobs (unless you're white-collar white felon )

  12. #187
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    The number just seems unnaturally high. It's really ed up if that 4.3% is real.

  13. #188
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    The number just seems unnaturally high. It's really ed up if that 4.3% is real.
    1% of USA's 300M+ is in prison.

    For ex-felons imprisoned for a short/medium time, the ex-felon %age ac ulates over the years, decades, and will greatly exceed the currently imprisoned rate of 1%.

  14. #189
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    Confederate/Red state ruling as expected. Voter ID is nothing but a new poll tax.

    Tennessee Appeals Court Upholds Most Of Voter ID Law, Saying Burden Is Not ‘Impossible Or Oppressive’


    "As the burden of having to acquire a photographic identification card is not substantial, neither does it rise to the level of imposing an “impossible or oppressive” condition on voting, and therefore the legislation requiring it is not void."

    Studies have shown that as many as 11 percent of Americans do not have a photo ID, and that those impacted by these laws are disproportionately minorities, the elderly and the poor.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...or-oppressive/

  15. #190
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    one thing i find with voters who cbf reading or who the candidates are, whoever is at the top of the list usually gets the preference vote cause ppl are to busy to give a rats ass to look at the other ppl on the ballot paper

  16. #191
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    12 threats to your vote

    Vote by phone: Residents in Florida, Virginia and Indiana have received phone calls erroneously telling them they don’t need to show up at the polls on Election Day because they can vote by phone. The callers falsely identified themselves as actual election officials. Indiana’s Secretary of State’s office has investigated the calls and found a suspect firm, while Virginia’s State Board of Elections is currently looking into them.


    Intimidating billboards: Dozens of intimidating billboards popped up in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods in Ohio and Wisconsin warning about steep penalties for voter fraud. Most had a large picture of a judge’s gavel and said, “Voter Fraud Is a Felony!” punishable by up to three and a half years in prison and a $10,000 fine. Others showed prisoners behind bars with a message about voter fraud. ClearChannel, which owns the billboards, said they were paid for by “a private family foundation,” but has agreed to take them down as they have a policy against anonymous political advertising. Meanwhile, the state of Pennsylvania has refused to take down billboards in Spanish telling people they need to present ID to vote even though a judge recently scrapped that requirement. There are also misleading ads on buses. Meanwhile, the state GOP-controlled government also said it won’t send out mailers informing people they no longer need an ID to vote.

    Phony letters:
    Voters in at least 28 counties in Florida have received bogus official-looking letters saying they may be ineligible to vote. The fake letters were sent under the names of real Florida election supervisors and stated that “information” had been discovered about their citizenship status that made them “doubt your eligibility as a registered voter.” The FBI and U.S. Postal Service are investigating.

    Wrong day:
    Election officials in Maricopa County, Ariz., where Sheriff Joe Arpaio is in a tough reelection battle, have twice given the incorrect date of the election to Spanish-speaking voters. First, officials sent letters in Spanish with the wrong date, then they distributed bookmarks that had the correct day in English on one side and the incorrect day in Spanish on the other. Arpaio’s campaign also dispatched a robocall suggesting it was illegal for people to have someone else deliver their early voting ballot to election officials (it’s not). Meanwhile, in Ohio, the Republican-run Ottawa County Board of Elections sent a mailer to 2,300 voters informing them that Election Day was Nov. 8 and telling them that their voting location had been moved to a building on the east side of a high school. The actual location is on the west side.

    Robocalls:
    Robocalls have similarly been used in the past to deceive voters about the date of Election Day, to give them false information about how or where to vote, or try to get people to stay home. Last year, the former campaign manager for former Republican Maryland Gov. Robert Ehrlich was convicted of orchestrating over 100,000 Election Day robocalls in 2010 telling black voters that they could “relax” at home because Democrats had already won (polls hadn’t even closed yet). Voting rights advocates say they haven’t seen these yet, but expect to as we get closer to Election Day.

    Poll challengers:
    In most states, political parties can send a representative to polling station to challenge the eligibility of voters they think don’t have a right to vote. This can cross the bounds into voter intimidation. In New Mexico, Republican officials conducted a training course in which they instructed poll challengers to do things they are not allowed to do, such as demand ID. Poll challengers in Roswell had to be removed by police in 2010 for intimidating voters. Meanwhile, a conservative group called True the Vote hopes to train up to 1 million monitors and challengers before Election Day. Election rights groups say the large numbers of monitors could be intimidating and discourage some people — particularly minorities — from voting.

    Last-minute purge:
    While several states have conducted controversial voting roll purges this cycle, especially Florida, Colorado distinguishes itself with the lateness of its most recent effort. The Republican secretary of state, who in August tried to purge thousands of alleged noncitizens from voting rolls, announced Tuesday — just two weeks before the election — that he had identified 300 more suspected noncitizens on the state’s rolls. They will be asked to prove their citizenship or face removal from the polls. The nonpartisan National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials (NALEO) warned that the purges have a “disproportionate chilling effect on voting by eligible Latino voters.”

    Employer pressure:
    Numerous cases of employers overtly or subtly pressuring employees to vote a certain way — usually Republican — have surfaced. While it’s illegal to threaten employees or offer a quid pro quo for their vote, employers can make their point clear without running into any legal trouble. Mitt Romney also personally told employers on a conference call in June to tell their employees to vote for him.

    Police warnings:
    While voting rights advocates say they haven’t seen it yet this year, in other cycles, letters and calls have gone out to voters, especially in minority neighborhoods, falsely claiming that you can’t vote if you have unpaid traffic tickets or owe child support. Other times, voters have been warned ominously that police will be stationed at the polls.

    Targeting registration groups:
    Election officials in Florida put such odious restrictions on people registering voters that many groups like the League of Women Voters pulled out of the state entirely. In Virginia, the Romney campaign recently claimed a nonpartisan registration group called the Voter Participation Center was registering dead people and dogs. The campaign tried – unsuccessfully — to get the state to shut them down.

    Polling placement:
    One common tactic is for partisan election officials to put polling places in obscure places so as to make it harder for voters in a certain precinct to vote. Voting rights advocates say they haven’t seen that yet either, but are looking out for it. In Ohio, Republicans tried to put the early voting location in Toledo way out in the white suburbs instead of downtown.

    Early voting timing:
    In Florida, Republican officials passed a law that seems aimed at cutting off black-church early voter mobilization efforts. In Ohio, Republican officials tried to make early voting polls close earlier in areas that vote Democratic, and stay open later in areas that tend to vote Republican. They were eventually rebuffed.


    http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/12_t...rce=newsletter

  17. #192
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    yeah, yeah, just a blog, but when it's the Dirty Trickster, Lying, anti-democracy, ends-justfies-the-means Repugs, anything's possible, esp after Katherine Harris handed FL to dubya in 2000 and Repugs stole 2004 OH.

    Retired NSA Analyst Proves GOP Is Stealing Elections Part I

    GOP is Stealing Elections ?

    Why is Mitt Romney so confident?

    In states where the winner will be decided by less than 10%, of the vote he already knows he will win. This is no tinfoil hat conspiracy. It’s a math problem. And mathematics showed changes in actual raw voting data that had no statistical correlation other than programmable computer fraud. This computer fraud resulted in votes being flipped from Democrat to Republican in every federal, senatorial, congressional and gubernatorial election since 2008 (thus far) and in the 2012 primary contests from other Republicans to Mitt Romney.

    This goes well beyond Romney’s investment control in voting machine maker Hart Intercivic and Diebold’s close ties to George W. Bush.

    Indeed all five voting machine companies have very strong GOP fundraising ties, yet executives (including the candidate’s son Tagg Romney) there is no conflict between massively supporting one party financially whilst controlling the machines that record and count the votes.

    http://www.laprogressive.com/gop-is-....lZD4EMOe.dpuf

    With $Ts in 1%'s tax cuts on the table, the 1% will do anything to win.

  18. #193
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    In a begging the question sort of way.
    If you could even begin to prove in person voter fraud of the sort that might be prevented by voter ID, it might be that kind of logical fallacy.

    Can you?

    If you can outline a different possibility as to why someone would push for a solution to a problem that does not exist, I would be more than happy to entertain that. Either they don't know thte problem doesn't exist, or they do know.

    I can show, pretty directly that there is at least one GOP leader who knows precisely what effect the laws will have, i.e. diminished Democratic turnout.

    You want to make the claim I am begging the question, feel free to tell me how.

  19. #194
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    If you could even begin to prove in person voter fraud of the sort that might be prevented by voter ID, it might be that kind of logical fallacy.

    Can you?

    If you can outline a different possibility as to why someone would push for a solution to a problem that does not exist, I would be more than happy to entertain that. Either they don't know thte problem doesn't exist, or they do know.

    I can show, pretty directly that there is at least one GOP leader who knows precisely what effect the laws will have, i.e. diminished Democratic turnout.

    You want to make the claim I am begging the question, feel free to tell me how.
    It's a fallacious choice set by construct.

    Given:
    1) little or no evidence of the kinds of fraud that would be prevented by voter ID laws. (undefined) x
    2) some fair evidence that voter ID laws would tend to depress some traditionally Democratic voting blocs (undefined) y
    3) Leading GOP officials calling for voter ID laws (defined)w
    Conclusion: GOP officials are either a) Dishonest b) Stupid



    w+(x+y)=conclusion.

    A construct devoid of evidence. Fill in the blanks, and make the case. Speculate and have your post treated as speculative opinion.

  20. #195
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Democrat congressman's son resigns after he was caught on tape suggesting that forged utility bills could be used to aid in voter fraud.

    But, of course, there is no such thing as voter fraud.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...r-fraud-video/

  21. #196
    Soft Like Twinkie Filling Juggity's Avatar
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    Democrat congressman's son resigns
    You realize "democrat" is a noun, right?

  22. #197
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    You realize "democrat" is a noun, right?

    Lol, Democratic then, you win.

  23. #198
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    It's a fallacious choice set by construct.

    Given:
    1) little or no evidence of the kinds of fraud that would be prevented by voter ID laws. (undefined) x
    2) some fair evidence that voter ID laws would tend to depress some traditionally Democratic voting blocs (undefined) y
    3) Leading GOP officials calling for voter ID laws (defined)w
    Conclusion: GOP officials are either a) Dishonest b) Stupid


    w+(x+y)=conclusion.

    A construct devoid of evidence. Fill in the blanks, and make the case. Speculate and have your post treated as speculative opinion.
    Still don't see how it fits into the "begging the question" fallacy.

    1 and 2 have been proven to a fair measure. They are not assumed in the conclusion.

    I, and others, have asked anyone for any fair evidence to support the claims of material voter fraud. If any had, then that would be presented ad naseum by Fox "news" et all.

    Since the positive statement "there is material voter fraud" cannot be proven, one has to logically assume the opposite is true.

    Thus:

    "there is no material voter fraud" is the logical default poisition. QED.

    The claim it would tend to supress Democratic voting blocks is supported by a raft of studies.
    A few of the better links:
    http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2011/1...turnout-redux/
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...fication-laws/
    The laws, as crafted, seem to swing elections in favor of Republicans.

    Since there is no problem that voter ID laws would fix the laws themselves then become problematic for Republicans.

    If there is no evidence of a problem that would be solved by voter ID laws, the people pushing for them can either know this, or not know it. No real space in between, although as you noted, the population of people pushing these laws can have a mixture of both kinds of people.

    It isn't begging the question, if the evidence supports the underlying assumptions, as much as you seen not to want to admit it, this is a very clear case of evil/stupid Republican bull .

  24. #199
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Democrat congressman's son resigns after he was caught on tape suggesting that forged utility bills could be used to aid in voter fraud.

    But, of course, there is no such thing as voter fraud.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...r-fraud-video/
    Shocking. O'queef's gotcha editing comes through to save the day.

    Of course, no one has ever claimed that such fraud would be overly difficult. You have simply pointed out the obvious.

    Have fun fighting your strawmen, Darrin.

  25. #200
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Shocking. O'queef's gotcha editing comes through to save the day.

    Of course, no one has ever claimed that such fraud would be overly difficult. You have simply pointed out the obvious.

    Have fun fighting your strawmen, Darrin.

    Probably no need for the guy to resign then, huh?

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