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  1. #26
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    There were armed officers at Columbine -- officers who exchanged gunfire with the madmen that shot up that school on that day before they had carried out the bulk of their killing. Having an openly armed officer assigned to Columbine High School didn't prevent two broken kids from arming themselves with assault weapons, marching right into that school, and carrying out a massacre.

    Columbine would seem to be at least some (fairly strong) evidence to disprove the idea that a motivated gunman is going to rethink a school as a target because there might be an armed officer there.

    This was an absurd response from an organization that marginalizes itself with this sort of absurd posturing.

  2. #27
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    It seems to me that as a Society, we Americans have increasingly abdicated our parental and societal responsibilities to our schools, making them responsible for so much more than teaching academic subject matter. Health care (school nurses, nutrition experts, etc. etc.), mental health care ( school psychologists and counselors), values transference (civic and societal value inculcation), mentoring, sports activities, etc. etc. etc.


    Now we are supposed to ask them to police their physical surroundings as part of their duties??? And all the while we tell them that they are not worth any more money to pay them, that they should get by with less money, that schools are the places where we can make our budgets balanced?

  3. #28
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    1) Gun-free schools zones “tell every insane killer in America that schools are their safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.”

    That's just crazy talk.

  4. #29
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Who said anything about making guns illegal?
    I didn't mean guns as a whole. However I don't think most people who want a ban on semi-automatics realize how many actual guns are semi-automatic. However if they do want to ban, outlaw or criminalize semi-automatic weapons then they pretty much are trying to ban all guns.

  5. #30
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    There were armed officers at Columbine -- officers who exchanged gunfire with the madmen that shot up that school on that day before they had carried out the bulk of their killing. Having an openly armed officer assigned to Columbine High School didn't prevent two broken kids from arming themselves with assault weapons, marching right into that school, and carrying out a massacre.

    Columbine would seem to be at least some (fairly strong) evidence to disprove the idea that a motivated gunman is going to rethink a school as a target because there might be an armed officer there.

    This was an absurd response from an organization that marginalizes itself with this sort of absurd posturing.
    Again, it's instant failure to apply rational analysis to an irrational crime.

  6. #31
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    I am more than frustrated with the old, tired, "Gun regulation Equals Gun Banning".

    What a scare mongering tactic! I know of zero politicians in this country who are advocating doing away with all guns. That argument is the equivalent of saying "all illegal immigrants should be sent back from whence they came".

    You can't get there from here and no one imagines that it is realistic because there is no way in this world that Americans are going to give up their guns.

    But it shouldn't be one more thing for schools to try to figure out. For god's sake get real.

  7. #32
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    I didn't mean guns as a whole. However I don't think most people who want a ban on semi-automatics realize how many actual guns are semi-automatic. However if they do want to ban, outlaw or criminalize semi-automatic weapons then they pretty much are trying to ban all guns.
    Who's pushing for a semi-automatic gun ban?

  8. #33
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    I didn't mean guns as a whole. However I don't think most people who want a ban on semi-automatics realize how many actual guns are semi-automatic. However if they do want to ban, outlaw or criminalize semi-automatic weapons then they pretty much are trying to ban all guns.
    BULL

  9. #34
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    It's straight up bull .

    Bolt action rifles, revolvers and double action pistols would all still be legal. So would anything pump action or breechload.

    The reason why you use 'semi-automatic' instead of 'assault weapon' is because it would actually meaningfully ban some guns with very simple language.

  10. #35
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    It's straight up bull .

    Bolt action rifles, revolvers and double action pistols would all still be legal. So would anything pump action or breechload.

    The reason why you use 'semi-automatic' instead of 'assault weapon' is because it would actually meaningfully ban some guns with very simple language.
    Are you seriously advocating banning all semi-autos? Here, you can have my bolt action Moison Nagant, kindly take it and shove it up your ass.

  11. #36
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Are you seriously advocating banning all semi-autos? Here, you can have my bolt action Moison Nagant, kindly take it and shove it up your ass.
    That's how Australia did it, and your posturing is cute. I could keep my .357 but have to give up my 9mm.

    OH NOES!!

  12. #37
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    So when semi-autos are banned and these lunatics are plucking off kids from 400 yards with their bolt action rifles do we ban those too? We might as well ban automobiles and go back to a horse and wagon, that'd save a ton of lives. I'm sick and tired of the tool being blamed for murder, why don't we place blame on the ing person who did it?

  13. #38
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So when semi-autos are banned and these lunatics are plucking off kids from 400 yards with their bolt action rifles do we ban those too?
    Well, I'm not in favor of a ban, but it would be interesting to postulate how many victims could be picked off in such a manner compared to just walking into a room with a semi-auto.

  14. #39
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    The effective range of most semiautomatic rifles is at least 400 yards like the AK-47. The AR-15 is well above that, a BAR well and above that again. It's not like the only semi-autos are spray guns and pistols.

    Have you heard of rate of fire? Most semi-autos you can get 40 shots off in a minute. Bolt action 30.06? Not so much.

  15. #40
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not in favor of a ban, but it would be interesting to postulate how many victims could be picked off in such a manner compared to just walking into a room with a semi-auto.
    Off memory here, wasn't it in Texas sometime in the 60s? Crazy dude, long rifle, bell tower, whole lot of folks dead without ever really hearing the shot?

  16. #41
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    The effective range of most semiautomatic rifles is at least 400 yards like the AK-47. The AR-15 is well above that, a BAR well and above that again. It's not like the only semi-autos are spray guns and pistols.

    Have you heard of rate of fire? Most semi-autos you can get 40 shots off in a minute. Bolt action 30.06? Not so much.
    That's not how i remember it.

    I remember the AR-15 as having a stated effective range of 360 yards. Yes, it will shoot way farther than that, but that small 22 caliper round loses velocity quite a bit as you get farther away. Now if you use special rounds, you can accurately and effectively shoot farther, but the standard 223 rounds...

  17. #42
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    Off memory here, wasn't it in Texas sometime in the 60s? Crazy dude, long rifle, bell tower, whole lot of folks dead without ever really hearing the shot?
    I too am not for a semi auto ban as the logistics alone would be a nightmare,but whitman was sniping from the 28th floor. How many additional shots could he have fired with a semi-auto?

  18. #43
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Whitman used an M1 which is a very nice semiautomatic rifle.

  19. #44
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    That's not how i remember it.

    I remember the AR-15 as having a stated effective range of 360 yards. Yes, it will shoot way farther than that, but that small 22 caliper round loses velocity quite a bit as you get farther away. Now if you use special rounds, you can accurately and effectively shoot farther, but the standard 223 rounds...
    This isn't 1980, dip . The specs are quite easy to look up.

  20. #45
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    The effective range of most semiautomatic rifles is at least 400 yards like the AK-47.
    , sure if we are talking a broad side of a barn.

    I take it you've never shot an AK, they're known for reliability, definitely not accuracy. And WC is pretty spot on with his assessment on a standard AR-15's range with your typical 55 grain Walmart .223, no if you start getting into the 20-24" AR's with a 1/7th twist in the barrel to stabilize a much heavier grain load, sure, they can reach past 400 yards, but a .223 round doesn't have much behind it at that point. If I'm going past 300 yards, I'm pulling out my .308.

  21. #46
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not in favor of a ban, but it would be interesting to postulate how many victims could be picked off in such a manner compared to just walking into a room with a semi-auto.

  22. #47
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    This isn't 1980, dip . The specs are quite easy to look up.
    OK, what is meant by "effective" then? Target practice?

    The effectiveness of the AR-15 is because the bullet fragments when it hits a human body, doing grave harm. Once it goes past about 360 yards, it slows to the point it no longer fragments, and just puts a tiny hole in someone. At this point, it is no longer an effective killing weapon, unless it's a sniper version. Then again, you also use a different round, and go for the head shot.

  23. #48
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    , sure if we are talking a broad side of a barn.

    I take it you've never shot an AK, they're known for reliability, definitely not accuracy. And WC is pretty spot on with his assessment on a standard AR-15's range with your typical 55 grain Walmart .223, no if you start getting into the 20-24" AR's with a 1/7th twist in the barrel to stabilize a much heavier grain load, sure, they can reach past 400 yards, but a .223 round doesn't have much behind it at that point. If I'm going past 300 yards, I'm pulling out my .308.
    I am not some dip that has never fired the weapon. People have and do consistently hit at over 500 yards with a 16" AR-15.

    You should be able to hit a standard target at 400 yards with an SKS. I really do not know wtf you are talking about. Perhaps you should go somewhere other than Walmart to buy guns

  24. #49
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I am not some dip that has never fired the weapon. People have and do consistently hit at over 500 yards with a 16" AR-15.

    You should be able to hit a standard target at 400 yards with an SKS. I really do not know wtf you are talking about. Perhaps you should go somewhere other than Walmart to buy guns
    LOL...

    The Fuzzy Troll thinks being able to hit a target at that range makes it an effective weapon at that range...

    LOL...

    LOL...

    LOL...

  25. #50
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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