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  1. #26
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    No, Green did not scrub with the Cavs. He was cut because that front office sucks. He's been a pretty consistent 14/4/2 with a steal and a block per 36 his whole career. He just didn't play a lot of minutes his first two years. His PER was higher last year than it is this year (15.5 vs 12.3). He still has a better PER at shooting-guard (16.3) than Kawhi has at small-forward (14.1). When you look at it that way, the argument that Green was playing out of position is pretty compelling. At the two, Green has the highest PER of any two-guard candidate who's not Manu.

    Before pulling out best defensive units, you should look at the chart again. Green plays in the two of the three best defensive units, and Leonard isn't even on the court for any of those. The one to which you're referring is actually number six. I honestly think Leonard's great team numbers are the result of two things: his abilities (don't wanna take anything away from that) and the fact that he's been healthy the least. Manu has the best team stats (for example winning percentage) of the Big Three, Parker the next and Duncan the worst because the team does best when all three are on the court, and since Manu has played the fewest games, a larger percentage of his games are when the other members of the Big Three play. In the same way, Leonard has gotten the benefit of playing most of his minutes with a healthy starting unit while Green went through almost half the season playing in a depleted wing rotation. That's another reason why you should only look at Green's minutes at the two when comparing his stats to others'.

    So no, his stats don't show he's the weak link unless you pick out all of the bad numbers and ignore the good. What they do show is that he's been worse this season than he was last. The stretch without Kawhi and Jack was part of it, but he also has been in two funks compared to only one hot streak so far. His defensive numbers have been pretty good through this last slump, and it's encouraging that he's finding more ways to score and help the offense than just shooting threes. He needs to stop being comically bad at finishing at the rim, and Kawhi needs to stop being comically bad at avoiding charges. They're both streaky in a lot of ways.

    And Josh Smith has only recently started playing the three. He still barely plays there (only 12 percent of the time). Even if the Hawks can get away with him there (he has an awesome PER advantage over opposing small-forwards), the Spurs can't. There's no way the Spurs' system could work if neither forward position can shoot from outside. That would congest the paint too much for the PnR. So you'd have to have Bonner start in Splitter's place (or come off the bench with Vesely). And Vesely isn't even on the same planet as Smith, and it's debatable if Jan's ceiling is anywhere near Smith's.

  2. #27
    Believe.
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    Well the thing with the out of position argument is this : who is going to start at SF tonight? SJax or Green?

    It's only a question because Pop won't be coaching but most likely it'll be Green. Even you must wonder is he's a better 3 than SJax and Diaw at this point.

    So at what point does the out of position argument end, how many minutes must he play a position to not be out of position anymore? Obviously the staff view him as the second best 3...

    Also I made a mistake with his PER being up, you're right it's down, my bad. While I use the stats, I still rely on the eye test first and foremost tbh, I'd still think the same if the stats didn't back what I saw.

    That said, pointing out that he has the weakest PER on the starting unit is not cherry picking stats, as well as saying that the team allows less points when he's off the court.

    I agree on Vesely, if he plays the 3 he will need a stretch 4 next to him, but Diaw could work imo. Vesely instead of SJax next year could be intriguing...

  3. #28
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    He's playing tonight. 10 minutes in the first half, I only saw the 5.5 he did in the second quarter.

    I thought he looked like a worthy project. Watching him, I really could see the potential he could fulfill with the right organization, the player development, coaching, veteran help and culture.

    He moved nice for his size, has great length, the shots I saw him take had a fair touch to them. He even threw a great bounce pass inside off the pick and roll that Seraphin bumbled into a turnover. It was the exact kind of pass you see between Spurs big men when the defense gets scrambled that leads to an open layup/dunk. It was the right idea and executed well, but just didn't work.

    But because he's in Clown College in DC people are writing him off. If he was with the Spurs development program and worked with Chip, he could be a real player.

  4. #29
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    This thread exists because there are a lot of people on this board who agree with you, objective . The whole debate is really about what his trade value is. I personally don't think he's worth a rotation player. And some of us ( Paranoid Pop ) think he's worth moving Green. What do you think?

  5. #30
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    I'm not a fan of Green, but I don't think I'd do Green for Vesely just yet. Come trade deadline I might have seen enough from both players to change my mind. I would move Bonner for him. Same with Blair, but extra would be needed to match salary.

    Given their playoff aspirations, I could understand waiting until the summer. Blair and Bonner are fun for the regular season but will be benched for the 3-man playoff big rotation+smallball. But the Spurs might not want to risk such a raw player in emergencies. Bonner's 1 million buyout at draft-time plus considerations would be something I'd cross my fingers for.

  6. #31
    IPA's All Day benefactor's Avatar
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    This thread exists because there are a lot of people on this board who agree with you, objective . The whole debate is really about what his trade value is. I personally don't think he's worth a rotation player. And some of us ( Paranoid Pop ) think he's worth moving Green. What do you think?
    Paranoid Pop would move Green for a dozen tamales.
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  7. #32
    tangina ka, though FireMicoHalili's Avatar
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    Guy is athletic for a white guy. Can play in small ball but he can't shoot. Bad ft shooting too, I heard. I say wait on him til his contract expires.

  8. #33
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    May as well bump this thread since he's one of the new Spurstalk players de jour.
    Bruno can we get one for Singleton as well?

  9. #34
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    May as well bump this thread since he's one of the new Spurstalk players de jour.
    Bruno can we get one for Singleton as well?
    I would say it's better to keep talking about Singleton and Vesely in the Blair thread of the main Spurs Forum instead of having talks split in two different threads.

  10. #35
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    mike fisher ✭ Fishsports
    Source tells me #Mavs have 'low-end' interest in C Jan Vesely. Not priority. Not 'big $.' But Euro-bust (6th overall pick) on long list.

    I wouldn't be opposed to him now. He's figured out how to be a center. Still a ball of athleticism mostly, but you never know. Would be a fun guy to play with an up-tempo unit.

  11. #36
    Believe. MR-Clutch's Avatar
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    I read that this guy has improved a as a rim rolling/defensive big. The guy is athletic as shit and could be a cheap option at backup center. I have no idea how his bball IQ is though. Does anyone know anything about him?

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