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  1. #1
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Someone Just Leaked Obama's Rules for Assassinating American Citizens


    For over a year now journalists, civil liberties advocates, and members of Congress have been asking the Obama administration to release internal memoranda from the Office of Legal Counsel justifying Obama's targeted killing program. While the White House continues to deny that such memos exist, NBC is reporting that it has acquired the next best thing: A secretish 16-page white paper from the Department of Justice that was provided to select members of the Senate last June. Michael Isikoff reports that


    [t]he 16-page memo, a copy of which was obtained by NBC News, provides new details about the legal reasoning behind one of the Obama administration’s most secretive and controversial polices: its dramatically increased use of drone strikes against al-Qaida suspects, including those aimed at American citizens, such as the September 2011 strike in Yemen that killed alleged al-Qaida operatives Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan. Both were U.S. citizens who had never been indicted by the U.S. government nor charged with any crimes.

    [T]he confidential Justice Department “white paper” introduces a more expansive definition of self-defense or imminent attack than described by Brennan or Holder in their public speeches. It refers, for example, to what it calls a “broader concept of imminence” than actual intelligence about any ongoing plot against the U.S. homeland.

    Instead, it says, an “informed, high-level” official of the U.S. government may determine that the targeted American has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of a violent attack and “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities.” The memo does not define “recently” or “activities.”


    http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/04/someone-just-leaked-obamas-rules-for-ass


    NBC link: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...americans?lite


    Hope/Change/Transparency

  2. #2
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Leaked Justice Department Memo Reveals Legal Case for Targeted Killings of US Citizens

    Memo greatly expands the meaning of "imminence" to allow for targeted killings without evidence of an active terror plot

    by John Glaser, February 04, 2013





    The US government can order the killing of American citizens even when there is no active intelligence accusing them of carrying out a specific terrorist attack, according to a confidential Justice Department legal memo obtained by NBC News.

    The memo, or “white paper,” concludes that assassinations of American citizens are legal if the US government says they are “senior operational leaders” or al-Qaeda or “an associated force.” The Executive Branch can keep this information secret though, and no checks or balances from other branches of government are necessary.

    The memo addresses long-standing questions about the Obama administration’s drone war that have been increasingly pronounced ever since a US drone strike in September 2011 killed US citizens and alleged al-Qaeda members Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan, and weeks later Awlaki’s 16-year old son Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

    Without submitting the evidence to a court, without any oversight from Congress, and without even making it’s legal reasoning available to the public, the President can ignore the Fifth Amendment to the Cons ution, which says that no person shall “be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”

    Standard rules of international law demand that an imminent threat of an immediate attack is required in order to legally initiate the use of force in self-defense. But the Obama administration has greatly expanded the meaning of the word “imminence” to allow for his drone war, taking place mainly in Pakistan and Yemen.

    The memo refers to what it calls a “broader concept of imminence” than what has traditionally been required, like actual intelligence an ongoing plot against the US.

    “The condition that an operational leader present an ‘imminent’ threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons and interests will take place in the immediate future,” the memo states, contradicting conventional international law.


    Instead, so long as an “informed, high-level” US official claims the targeted American has been “recently” involved in “activities” that pose a threat and “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities,” then the President can order his assassination. The memo does not define “recently” or “activities.”

    Furthermore, the memo declares that these Executive Branch decision will not be subject to any judicial oversight: “There exists no appropriate judicial forum to evaluate these cons utional considerations.”

    “This is a chilling do ent,” said Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the ACLU. “Basically, it argues that the government has the right to carry out the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen…It recognizes some limits on the authority it sets out, but the limits are elastic and vaguely defined, and it’s easy to see how they could be manipulated.”

    In particular, Jaffer said, the memo “redefines the word imminence in a way that deprives the word of its ordinary meaning.”

    The memo marks an extraordinary and unprecedented expansion of Executive power and the “limits” it imposes on the use of that power are insubstantial. For example, it says that the targeted assassination of American citizens can only take place if US officials decide that capturing the suspect is not feasible. But feasibility is entirely defined and decided upon by unchecked US officials in secret.

    Last month, a federal judge rejected The New York Times‘ bid to force the US government to disclose more information about its drone war, and specifically its legal justifications.
    Although she threw out the case, US District Judge Colleen McMahon noted that such government disclosures could help the public understand the “vast and seemingly ever-growing exercise in which we have been engaged for well over a decade, at great cost in lives, treasure, and (at least in the minds of some) personal liberty.”

    “I can find no way around the thicket of laws and precedents that effectively allow the executive branch of our government to proclaim as perfectly lawful certain actions that seem on their face incompatible with our Cons ution and laws while keeping the reasons for their conclusion a secret,” she wrote.

    “The Alice-in-Wonderland nature of this pronouncement is not lost on me,” McMahon said, referring to the nightmarish wonderland in which people are sentenced to death before a verdict from a jury is in.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2013/02/04/l...f-us-citizens/

  3. #3
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    MSNBC...Obama's DOJ White Paper PDF

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf

  4. #4
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    They sure took Hamdi for a spin... the part when the DoJ claims there's 'no appropriate forum to evaluate these cons utional considerations' (so we'll just assume we're right) certainly is the cherry on top... disgraceful, tbh...

    I really doubt the founding fathers left the overruling power to deny the 4th and 5th amendment protections to the whims of an 'informed, high level government official'...

  5. #5
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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  6. #6
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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  7. #7
    I'm smarter than you Expert's Avatar
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    And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

    And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

  8. #8
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Unless they are going to call a drone strike on me, I'm having trouble giving a .

  9. #9
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Ring of Gyges scenario: what will the most powerful person in the world do when he knows no one can review his decisions? It's an awful temptation to power and an unjust abrogation of basic rights. It's not hard to imagine a corrupt administration using this policy to remove political enemies from action.

  10. #10
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Unless they are going to call a drone strike on me, I'm having trouble giving a .
    well of course, it's all about you.

  11. #11
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    btw, for all you right-wingers who say the liberals are keeping quiet, the -you-love-to-hate Rachel Madcow had Isikoff break the story on her show before it was on the website. and Madcow really belabored the controversy in detail.

    Somehow, people are very concerned about the US govt murdering Americans without charge or trial, but not as concerned about US govt murdering non-Americans. "American citizen rights" and American sovereignty are VERY different from "human rights" and other countries' sovereignty (which basically don't exist for Americans)

  12. #12
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    and here's another left-winger also ing about Barry's death squads

    JSoc: Obama's secret assassins

    The president has a clandestine network targeting a 'kill list' justified by secret laws. How is that different than a death squad?They interview former JSoc assassins, who are s -shocked at how the "kill lists" they are given keep expanding, even as they eliminate more and more people.

    Our conventional forces are subject to international laws of war: they are accountable for crimes in courts martial; and they run according to a clear chain of command. As much as the US military may fall short of these standards at times, it is a model of lawfulness compared with JSoc, which has far greater scope to undertake the commission of extra-legal operations – and unimaginable crimes.

    JSoc morphs the secretive, unaccountable mercenary model of private military contracting, which Scahill identified in Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army, into a hybrid with the firepower and intelligence backup of our full state resources. The Hill reports that JSoc is now seeking more "flexibility" to expand its operations globally.

    JSoc operates outside the traditional chain of command; it reports directly to the president of the United States. In the words of Wired magazine:

    "JSoc operates with practically no accountability."

    Scahill calls JSoc the president's "paramilitary". Its budget, which may be in the billions, is secret.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/03/jsoc-obama-secret-assassins


    AQ embarrassed the out of compromised, politicized NSA/FBI/CIA/DoD/dubya- head on 9/11, now 1000s of foreign innocents will die for decades.

    And if any of you think Bishop Gecko would have stopped JSOC death squads, GFY.

  13. #13
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Unless they are going to call a drone strike on me, I'm having trouble giving a .
    Really?

    Yeah, Chump that is pretty bad.

    I heard about this this morning on NPR, seems pretty crappy. I don't like it. I haven't read the articles yet (been busy so far this morning). Will get back on the thread when I read them.

  14. #14
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    and Madcow really belabored the controversy in detail.

    Maddow is someone I can actually stomach on the msm, the MSNBC link is posted in the original post at the bottom. She did a great job, and she has done stories before on Obama and his double speak, suppression of Ron Paul voters, etc, which I have posted here as well.

    I hope she keeps going after this issue and that it doesn't just fade away. The other mainstream hacks need to follow her lead.

    Here is the Rachel Maddow segment http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/n..._show#50700425
    Last edited by SA210; 02-05-2013 at 11:00 AM.

  15. #15
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Seriously, as long as this country remains on a quasi war footing, things like this are going to be produced. No executive after Bush will want to be the one who didn't try everything possible to stop another terra attack on the US, and no congress will want to be the one who stood in the executive's way.

  16. #16
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Really?

    Yeah, Chump that is pretty bad.

    I heard about this this morning on NPR, seems pretty crappy. I don't like it. I haven't read the articles yet (been busy so far this morning). Will get back on the thread when I read them.
    Sorry, I'm having trouble getting fired up over it too. Is there any particular reason why we as a whole should be upset?

    Were you guys also upset that Bin Laden didn't get a fair trial?

  17. #17
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Sorry, I'm having trouble getting fired up over it too. Is there any particular reason why we as a whole should be upset?

    Were you guys also upset that Bin Laden didn't get a fair trial?
    4th amendment. Frog. Warm water.

  18. #18
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Sorry, I'm having trouble getting fired up over it too. Is there any particular reason why we as a whole should be upset?

    Were you guys also upset that Bin Laden didn't get a fair trial?
    Red team is still trying to give Clinton for not assassinating bin Laden and anyone around him with cruise missiles.

  19. #19
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Red team is still trying to give Clinton for not assassinating bin Laden and anyone around him with cruise missiles.
    Really? Not really? Who is this red team?

  20. #20
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    4th amendment. Frog. Warm water.
    I agree it's precarious, but I also agree with chump that drone programs will continue under the veil of security for exactly the reasons he said. Now I just sit back, relax and let the apathy run over me.

  21. #21
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I'm certainly not blue.

    Am I red?


  22. #22
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I agree it's precarious, but I also agree with chump that drone programs will continue under the veil of security for exactly the reasons he said. Now I just sit back, relax and let the apathy run over me.
    Not me. I'm going to start posting memes. It's super-effective!

  23. #23
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Really? Not really? Who is this red team?
    Really. It's the standard response when asked why didn't Bush do anything about him before 9/11.

    It's just the kind of thing every president from now on is going to want to avoid politically.

  24. #24
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    Not me. I'm going to start posting memes. It's super-effective!

  25. #25
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    4th amendment. Frog. Warm water.
    5th amendment? Or did you really mean 4th?

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