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And my point is, when has anyone ever acted like the Spurs have LA's stacked talent? I don't ever see that from anyone except Spurfans.
Parker is definitely a top 5 candidate and he's a better candidate than Melo. However, its a two man race between Lebron/Durant. I expect Lebron to win it in the end.
And my point is, when has anyone ever acted like the Spurs have LA's stacked talent? I don't ever see that from anyone except Spurfans.
Plenty of times, which is why TP doesn't really get credit. They simply say: "Duncan is still a dominant beast, they have Manu Ginobili to close games and blah blah blah". Even though Tim's resurgence this year is a new development and Manu is and has been in and out with injuries. Spurs fans know they don't have top flight talent outside of the big 3, but we understand our "scrubs" are solid role players that fit the system well and a lot of that is because of how good TP/Tim/Manu are.
And your point was not that. It was about the playoffs hence you referencing that in this discussing when it has no merit.
Agreed.
I agree Harden is a better basketball player than K-Mart.Did u watch OKC in the playoffs? Westbrick disappeared, Harden was their man in crunch time.
Kmart is worse on both ends/can't create his own shot.
I'm just saying an argument can be made that K-Mart fits the team better than Harden did (mainly because of Westbrook's desire to dominate the ball).
Harden isn't exactly a strong defender himself, and he definitely isn't as good of a spot up shooter, or as good playing off the ball as Martin. He is better overall offensively, but the team needed a better spot up shooter and off-ball scorer, and Martin fits those needs.
This is no different than the argument that took place that Al Jefferson is a better basketball player than Tiago Splitter, but Splitter fits the Spurs needs more than Jefferson would, so a trade of the two guys would not be very smart for the Spurs.
I agree completely.
But Splitter is much better defender and AJ is slightly better on O.
Harden is better everywhere
Come on now - this is just silly. While WB has his flaws and moments where he hurts OKC, his overall level of play is extraordinary. He's easily a top 4 PG in the league and does way more good than bad and he's a huge reason they are as good as they are.
The only reason I can't say Durant is MVP is because Lebron does everything on offense just as extraordinary as Durant, but he's so far ahead of him defensively and anchors the defense that I just can't give it to Durant. Durant is on an excellent defensive team that anchors him in that area which allows his skill set to shine (offensively). Lebron shines about as well offensively but he's the main reason his team is great defensively too. It's remarkable.
So Duncan still isn't one of the top 3 big men in the game? Ginobili still isn't one of the better closers and creators in the game?
I don't ever see anyone saying they are stacked with talent. They just have an incredible big man, an incredible coach, and a very balanced team where everyone knows their roles and plays their roles the way they should. That's how the Bulls were so successful in the 90's, despite not having a ton of talent outside of MJ and Scottie. They had a bunch of players who knew their roles, and played their roles nearly to perfection, and it resulted in winning 60+ games almost annually and 6 championships.
You said this:
But no one ever acted like it was some top flight talent, and the only way people wrote them off was in their chances to win a le. Outside of morons, no one was saying they would be a lottery team or anything like that. In general, people still felt they would consistently win 50+ games, get to the playoffs, but not win a championship.
tbh you are letting your little-man syndrome affect you in your basketball discussions a little too much imo
AJ is much more than slightly better on offense.
and Harden is not better everywhere. He is a better overall player, but not in certain aspects of the game, like I mentioned. And those particular aspects (off ball offense, spot up shooting) are exactly what the Thunder needed more of.
Its not that silly. Westbrook's usage is so ridiculously high, more than Durant or even Lebron. He takes 19 shots per game, shoots only 42% from the field and only 32% from the FT line. He's so inefficient at times and he takes shots away from Durant. Durant is doing the heavy lifting on that team and his defense isn't bad at all when you consider his rebounding and shot blocking. The numbers show he does more defensively than Westbrook as well. Durant's offense is only ahead of Lebron right now because of the FT shooting, but its still ahead based on production. I agree than Durant has more help defensively, but Durant's defense is really good overall. Westbrook just isn't an efficient player and his offense takes alot away from Durant. Honestly, having him as the number two guy will hurt OKC's chances of winning a le. At least Harden was there last season, but not anymore.
LeBron is a better defender than Durant, but Durant is actually underrated in that regard. He has become not only a competent defender, but actually a good and reliable one. He does have solid help from teammates on defense. But I'm betting that most people don't realize that statistically Durant is putting up just as good a defensive season as LeBron, and is a tick better based on advanced defensive metrics.
LeBron
6.9 DRPG
1.63 SPG
0.85 BPG
102 DRtg
2.6 DWS
Durant
6.9 DRPG
1.55 SPG
1.22 BPG
101 DRtg
3.2 DWS
Now steals and blocks don't necessarily equate to good defense, as we've seen in the past with guys like Marcus Camby and Allen Iverson. But that's why I also included the advanced metrics (from basketball-reference). Again, Durant is surrounded by some very good defensive teammates so that skews the numbers some. But it does give some insight on the fact that Durant is actually underrated defensively. No, he's not as good as LeBron defensively. That's not what I'm arguing. But he's better than what some people claim, and at least statistically, he's doing his part defensively for his team as well.
I'll take Splitter over Jefferson. Jefferson's offense doesn't balance out his horrible defense the way Splitter's defense balances his somewhat lacking offense.
That doesn't make any sense
Then when they start winning (top seed several years and again this year) they act like Tim is a "top 3 big man" and like that was expected. They act like Manu never has injuries and is playing prime Manu ball. They act like Danny Green and Tiago are "perfect role players" and that the Spurs are a lot more talented than people give them credit for.
You seriously are going to say you see none of that on ST? Many people wrote them off not only from a le perspective, but from making any noise in the playoffs at all. , even you just did it when you claim they haven't really done anything when they were in the WCF just last year and up 2-0!
Random throw away jokes aside from you, TP is a top MVP candidate and the Spurs playoff success has nothing to do with it. It's a regular season award, Spurs continually have the best record and TP is the Spurs best player and tied with Tim for most important. That's all I was saying.
And LeBron is at the Jordan point in his career where he should be league MVP every season by a mile, but they'll give it to other people just because they don't want to give it to him constantly.
Durant is a distant second.
CP3 is an even more distant third.
Oh, so basically you are taking what trolls like koolaid, rogue, and m>s say seriously, or what other people were saying just to piss off spursfans, and getting butthurt over itThat doesn't make any sense
Then when they start winning (top seed several years and again this year) they act like Tim is a "top 3 big man" and like that was expected. They act like Manu never has injuries and is playing prime Manu ball. They act like Danny Green and Tiago are "perfect role players" and that the Spurs are a lot more talented than people give them credit for.
You seriously are going to say you see none of that on ST? Many people wrote them off not only from a le perspective, but from making any noise in the playoffs at all. , even you just did it when you claim they haven't really done anything when they were in the WCF just last year and up 2-0!
Random throw away jokes aside from you, TP is a top MVP candidate and the Spurs playoff success has nothing to do with it. It's a regular season award, Spurs continually have the best record and TP is the Spurs best player and tied with Tim for most important. That's all I was saying.
Yeah, I'm not wasting any more time on this crap.
I agree with a lot of what you said in this thread but OKC needs Harden more than Martin. He was their main facilitator last year and the reason they lost in the finals is that he wasn't filling that role.
I don't necessarily disagree either. I'm just saying a good argument can be made both ways.
I also think they are better off with Harden, but it does seem like the offense flows a little more smoothly in general with Martin spotting up and running the break.
I tend to agree with this. I think it will be more clear in the playoffs. At the end of close games, Harden was invaluable because he would often take the ball out of Westbrook's hands when Westbrook started chucking, especially because Durant would sometimes show an inability to keep Westbrook in check in those situations. Harden often became the de facto point guard in those end of game situations. His ability to facilitate, pass, get to the rim, and get to the line made him so vital to OKC's success. Kevin Martin doesn't have that type of skill set and doesn't have the juice or trust to do that. In the playoffs, that may be a deciding factor as to how far OKC goes this year.
LeBron deserves to win another MVP but they'll probably give it to Durant.
I remember det poster last season who blew up because Tony Parker was being snubbed as an MVP candidate.
Don't really disagree with that. LeBron this season and probably for the last couple seasons has probably been the greatest basketball player in the history of the game. He's been that good. But at least statistically, Durant is putting up just as good a season as LeBron. So while LeBron is the better player, there is an argument statistically that the race is at least very close between the two.
Lebron is a clear number one but the gap with Durant is imo closer than people might think. If Durant was playing with a PG with a brain, he would be even better.
Then it's close between CP3, TP and Melo but I'll give the 3rd spot to CP3. TP is playing in a well oiled machine, he knows exactly what to do when to do it. CP3 is doin' a bit of all, team is lost without him on the floor. On top of that, I think he is the only PG capable to prove Dok theory wrong thanks to his mid range game that is imo more reliable than TP's one.
I'd consider Melo at 5, as highlighted by Jam he is having a very solid season.
Melo >>> TP9 . You guys act like Tony plays great defense
well he is playing good D for most part of the year tbh
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