Trade Idea: Mohammed For Marshall

[whottt]

yeah, well i hope you see robert horry? and if they do bring in scola, i'd much rather have a 25 year old backup to my 35 year old #2 bigman.

I get where you are coming from now...

You are one of the ones that think a short, slow, shortarmed, Euro rookie, that can't rebound or block shots, is going to come in and contend for the 6th man of the year...or MVP.

No sense in continuing this argument...wake me when you return to reality.

[constantstate]

Uh no...I am thinking of the one that destroyed us in the third quarter up in Toronto earlier this seaso...the one that shot over 40% from 3, scored 12 PPG and pulled down 6 boards while nearly averaging a block and a steal per game, all in about 25 mpg....

I am thinking of the same one Pop is thinking of....

well i'm think of the one pop thought about after he didnt get him last year. the one we won a championship without. the one that would be really redundant if you have horry/scola playing mins at the 4.

scola is 6'9" and 25... not 32 going on 33. theres no future there, either at the 3 spot or the 4. so if you'd do this trade, know he'd get about as many matchup problems at the 3 as glen robinson got in the finals. and as many mins as tmass got at power forward too.

im not saying its insane, im just saying to trade away a quality center for a guy that you basically have in horry... and to even think about trading scola away for a draft pick or as fodder... etc... is just strange man.

scola could be as important to this team 2 years from now as manu is right now... not that he has the same talent level, but in terms of giving both tim a break and playing a bigger role than a backup/backup 4 who isnt going to play the 3 much at all.

[constantstate]

I get where you are coming from now...

You are one of the ones that think a short, slow, shortarmed, Euro rookie, that can't rebound or block shots, is going to come in and contend for the 6th man of the year...or MVP.

No sense in continuing this argument...wake me when you return to reality.

why wake you up, you're clearly insane...

i never said the guy would be the 6thman or MVP. i said he'd be more important in 2 years than a 34 year old marshall. and if you're going to bring the supposed best power forward in europe... might as well play him.

[constantstate]

a short, slow, shortarmed, Euro rookie, that can't rebound or block shots, is going to come in and contend for the 6th man of the year...or MVP

by the way man... hate much? you could have just called him a garden gnome, or a one armed midget... i mean damn... is he blind in one eye like bogut too?

[whottt]

Ok in the world I live in, there is no equvalency between Horry and Marshall...the world I live in...Donyell Marshall can play SF and at times dominate at that postion(go back and look at the Toronto game when he did it playing alongside Chris Bosh)...the world I live in, Horry is slow even compared to other PF's and C's, and hasn't gotten meaningful minutes at the SF position since about 1998.

The world I live in...Scola may not even make it in the NBA.

The world I live in...repeating as champion takes precendence over rebuilding for the future...

And the world I live in, 32 year old players are valuable assets, especially to championship winning teams.

Especially when their worth is being measured against a guy whose chief contribution to the team, is being big...and who is considered to have a good game when he doesn't shortarm 4 or 5 point blank passes under the basket in a game...


Let's get this straight...Marshall is a SF that can play PF...Horry is a PF who was a slow SF long ago...

And Scola ranks lower than either of them in terms of being proven to play the PF position in the NBA.

[whottt]

by the way man... hate much? you could have just called him a garden gnome, or a one armed midget... i mean damn... is he blind in one eye like bogut too?

He is short.

He has short arms.

He is slow.

He isn't a good rebounder.

He can't block shots.


That's not called hate...that's called reality.


We already have a PF who can score pretty well...better than Scola...and if we get Marshall...we'll have two of them.

[constantstate]

Ok in the world I live in, there is no equvalency between Horry and Marshall...the world I live in...Donyell Marshall can play SF and at times dominate at that postion(go back and look at the Toronto game when he did it playing alongside Chris Bosh)...the world I live in, Horry is slow even compared to other PF's and C's, and hasn't gotten meaningful minutes at the SF position since about 1998.

The world I live in...Scola may not even make it in the NBA.

The world I live in...repeating as champion takes precendence over rebuilding for the future...

in this world you live in... did the spurs just sign horry for 3 years? do the spurs draft players they dont want? did glen robinson play alot because he causes matchup problems? do you really think we'd use marshall more than horry at the 4... and do you really think he can replace bruce bowen at the 3 someday when he's 50?

[constantstate]

He is short.

He has short arms.

He is slow.

He isn't a good rebounder.

He can't block shots.

...and answers to the name of lucky... if you have any info regarding the whereabouts of this player... please contact 225-spur.

[Spurologist]

Rasho for Marshall?

[whottt]

in this world you live in... did the spurs just sign horry for 3 years?

No, they signed him for 2 years with an option for the 3rd.

do the spurs draft players they dont want?

They draft players they end up not wanting...look at my avatar.

did glen robinson play alot because he causes matchup problems?

Guess what...the object is to improve your team...not tread water.

do you really think we'd use marshall more than horry at the 4

We'd definitely use him more at that postion than Scola IMO.

... and do you really think he can replace bruce bowen at the 3 someday when he's 50?

I think he can back him up better than Scola, Barry or Brown can....now.

And again...I am not worried about someday...someday is here already for this team...the time to win les is now.

[constantstate]

I think chances of Nazr staying a Spur are slim. Either he won't be good enough to start in front of Rasho, or he'll start but then command more money than the Spurs will be willing to pay, so trading him now when his stock his high and when he still has value for the Spurs is an option. I wouldn't do it for another PF though. With Marshall you will have Horry, Scola and him, 3 players who can never play center, so to go with that line up it would pretty much nessesitate Duncan moving to center full time. That's the only way you could divide minutes among those 3 players. But then if you did that, Rasho would only get minutes behind Duncan, and again, would probably cost too much to play 15 minutes a game (and close to zero come playoffs). I would only consider trading Nazr for a small forward. Unless you trade the rights to Scola for the SF...

there might be a chance that they can extend him now/soon, so that his value wont balloon anymore than it already has/is... but most likely you're right. either of them are pretty quality/starting centers, if one had to go, it would be nice to get a young quality SF. bruce needs the same kind of rest that horry needs now (imo) to keep him semi-fresh. if not now, soon. and what if he went down/out with an injury? there's no true 3 to fill in.

[Marcus Bryant]

Don Harris on the news tonight brought up a Donyell Marshall for Rasho Nesterovic deal. If that is on the table, I'm sure it'd be much easier to swallow for Spurs fans. I'd hate to see Rasho go and lose his size, but Marshall is a talent that fits the Spurs.

Two questions:

1) Do you do that trade?

Yes, contingent on getting an extension done this summer with Mohammed. If they can move Rasho's deal and sign Marshall to a smaller, shorter deal then they've trimmed a little payroll there. But they are going to have to commit to paying for some bigman depth.

Right now I think if the Spurs put a 6 year deal worth $50 to 55 mil on the table for Mohammed that he takes it. A lot can happen in a year to a player.

2) Do you think a bigman rotation of Mohammed, Duncan, Horry, Marshall and Scola is good or could that be too many players fighting for the same minutes?

That should be flexible enough to match up with and pose problems for virtually every other team in the NBA.

[constantstate]

blah, blah, blah...

ok... but i dont remember anyone saying sato (is that who that is?) was the best power forward in europe. nor do i remember people thinking a guy named manu... who people said was the best shooting guard in europe... could make it here either?

you win now... i agree. but that cliche is also used by everyone who doesnt have the foresight that the spurs use to draft players... like scola. they signed horry for 3 years to give him more money... but you can bet that they're gonna use him. and if you're going to trade away one of 2 quality starting centers... why flood a spot, when you can go after a young SF instead? someone that can take mins away from bruce?

[whottt]

ok... but i dont remember anyone saying sato (is that who that is?) was the best power forward in europe.

How about Gordan Giricek?

Sato was a higher pick than Scola...

And success in Europe does not gurantee success in the NBA, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't...the freaking Euroleague MVP this year is an NBA washout.

nor do i remember people thinking a guy named manu... who people said was the best shooting guard in europe... could make it here either?

I never had a doubt about Manu after seeing him play...I've seen Scola play...I've seen him play well...I don't think he's going to be a great NBA player...he damn sure isn't going to have the success Manu had...because he's got big time physical limitations at his position that Manu doesn't.

you win now... i agree. but that cliche is also used by everyone who doesnt have the foresight that the spurs use to draft players... like scola. they signed horry for 3 years to give him more money... but you can bet that they're gonna use him. and if you're going to trade away one of 2 quality starting centers... why flood a spot, when you can go after a young SF instead? someone that can take mins away from bruce?

What makes you think the Spurs are still sold on Scola?

What makes you think they value him over a proven tough NBA matchup like Marshall?


What makes him the best PF in Europe isn't his D and his rebounding...it's scoring around the basket...that's not the priority with the Spurs...if that's all he can do(and it is), the Spurs will move him if they can...

[strangeweather]

Ok in the world I live in, there is no equvalency between Horry and Marshall...the world I live in...Donyell Marshall can play SF and at times dominate at that postion(go back and look at the Toronto game when he did it playing alongside Chris Bosh)...the world I live in, Horry is slow even compared to other PF's and C's, and hasn't gotten meaningful minutes at the SF position since about 1998.

So why can't he stick anywhere? The only team he's been with for more than 2 years is Golden State, and he didn't exactly put them over the top. Why is a crappy team like Toronto looking to dump him yet again?

And why in the world would a team like the Spurs that has at least another five good years of contending left with Tim and Manu going to trade for a guy on the downside of his career to play behind Horry, another guy on the downside of his career?

[Marcus Bryant]

whottt is now arguing that Horry's clutchness is a commodity?

[constantstate]

How about Gordan Giricek?

they wanted him... they just wanted to keep manu more, remember?

What makes you think the Spurs are still sold on Scola?

the fact that they were talking about buying his contract out... and/or meeting with him. what makes you think they're not?

What makes you think they value him over a proven tough NBA matchup like Marshall?

i dont know what value they're placing on scola... i guess we'll find out soon enough. but the post was about nazr/rasho... and no, i dont think its worth losing that kind of depth for a guy that wouldnt play the 3 and have a hard time backing up horry if they choose to get scola too.

What makes him the best PF in Europe isn't his D and his rebounding...it's scoring around the basket...that's not the priority with the Spurs...if that's all he can do(and it is), the Spurs will move him if they can...

well you kinda made this into a scola vs. marshall thing... so i'll bring age up again. 2 years from now when robert horry is dust and bruce is almost ashes too, it would be nice to have a guy that can score around the basket who's 27, and that young SF we got for rasho/nazr.

[constantstate]

So why can't he stick anywhere? The only team he's been with for more than 2 years is Golden State, and he didn't exactly put them over the top. Why is a crappy team like Toronto looking to dump him yet again?

And why in the world would a team like the Spurs that has at least another five good years of contending left with Tim and Manu going to trade for a guy on the downside of his career to play behind Horry, another guy on the downside of his career?

all of this... this is what i'd like to know too.

[whottt]

they wanted him... they just wanted to keep manu more, remember?

Well they wanted Sato also...they just wanted Glenn Robinson or Dion Glover more...

They want the worst player in the NBA as well...they just want all the ones that aren't as bad more.

the fact that they were talking about buying his contract out... and/or meeting with him. what makes you think they're not?

His trade value is at an all time high...

And I think the Spurs want someone who will help the teams le chances this season and possibly the next 2 years as well...

And I think there are a lot of guys that can do that better than Scola. Like I said...we've already got a pretty good scoring PF.

i dont know what value they're placing on scola... i guess we'll find out soon enough. but the post was about nazr/rasho... and no, i dont think its worth losing that kind of depth for a guy that wouldnt play the 3 and have a hard time backing up horry if they choose to get scola too.

So you'd rather have an unproven 3rd team PF than a back up SF for our 34 year old SF(and a position we frequently have match up problems with)?

well you kinda made this into a scola vs. marshall thing... so i'll bring age up again. 2 years from now when robert horry is dust and bruce is almost ashes too, it would be nice to have a guy that can score around the basket who's 27,

A guy that could score around the basket in Europe.....you don't know how well he's going to do it in the NBA.

Rasho was a good scorer in Europe too...come to think of it...I think he was once the best C in Europe...

And I think it'd be nicer to win two les in a row, than build for the future at the expense of building the best le contending team we can, this year.....Seeing as how Duncan's prime is now.

[constantstate]

marshall wont take bruce's mins at the 3 because we use bruce to stop people... quick people... like we used devin, even though he's undersized. and i'd actually like you to answer strangeweather's questions too. the guy has bounced around more than a superball flung by shaq... and he's 32... what makes you think he's all that?

i now understand where you're coming from with the rest... you dont like scola... fine. the point is, if we do buyout his contract... whats the point in trading our depth at center to flood the 4 and hardly play a guy at the 3?

[Warlord23]

Rasho for Marshall is iffy but I'd do it at the end of the day ... Rasho's value only shows up when Duncan is injured, whereas Marshall would be valuable throughout.

But Nazr for Marshall is much more difficult IMO ... Considering this is Nazr's first playoffs I'd give him the benefit of doubt ... and the number of threads gloating over his offensive rebounding must have been in double digits this season .... I also thought Nazr did some good work against Amare in patches ... and we'd need a rebounder with size if we need to keep our advantage vs Phoenix ... too often in playoff games we were killing them with second-chance points.

Marshall won't get significantly better than what he's already shown .. but Nazr could prove to be a very useful center in a league short on them. Which is why I won't do this trade.

[whottt]

marshall wont take bruce's mins at the 3 because we use bruce to stop people... quick people... like we used devin, even though he's undersized.

And we also stuggle when we are matched up against long SF's...big people...and our roation of 2 guards is too small and too light for them...

and i'd actually like you to answer strangeweather's questions too. the guy has bounced around more than a superball flung by shaq... and he's 32... what makes you think he's all that?

Have you ever watched the guy play, what he did to us last season?(Scratch that, if you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion).

The guy is unstoppable at that position at times...and he can freaking shoot, score and rebound, better than any of the the 2 guard sized guys we play at that position...my guess is he can do those things at the PF position better than Scola.

i now understand where you're coming from with the rest... you dont like scola... fine. the point is, if we do buyout his contract... whats the point in trading our depth at center to flood the 4 and hardly play a guy at the 3?

I like Scola fine...

You are just in denial over the obivious physical limitations he has that will be a challenge for him to overcome in the NBA...You also seem to think that having a project 3rd team PF is more important than havign a legitimate SF, even at the back up spot. You also seem to think that 3 years from now is more important than repeating this year...

You are giving this guy total credit for stuff he hasn't done...he hasn't proven he is an NBA player...he has proved he is weak rebounder, even in Europe, and he is slow for that position by NBA standards...

I know what his strengths are..finishing around the baket, a firey demeanor, and above average passing...

That's not our greatest need right now...

Having a legitimate SF is...considering we have none on our roster...and the 2 guard sized SF we trot out there to play the position is not a strong offensive player and he is 34 years old...

[Useruser666]

Rasho for Marsh. Do it.

Resign Nazr. Do it.

Calm Whottt down. Do it.

[constantstate]

I know what his strengths are..finishing around the baket, a firey demeanor, and above average passing...

That's not our greatest need right now...

Having a legitimate SF is...considering we have none on our roster...and the 2 guard sized SF we trot out there to play the position is not a strong offensive player and he is 34 years old...

we use bruce to cover alot of ground... 2nd in DPoY is not someone we're trotting out there for no reason. (you know that) so given the way we use that position... wouldnt it be better to trade for a guy that would actually play SF?

and i'm done with this argument too... there's no way in i'd do this trade if we brought scola in... if we didnt, maybe... i just still think there's better guys out there for the 3 spot than him.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

To further my point that the Spurs work better with a perimeter shooting big in the lineup, you can look at Mohammed's +/- for the season. In the regular season, the Spurs were -6.5 points when Nazr was in the game. In the playoffs, the Spurs were even with Nazr in the game. That means that he didn't really make a difference either way considering he played a lot of his times with starters around him, that isn't saying too much. Horry, on the other hand, was a +10.4 in the regular season and a +8.7 in the playoffs. Obviously his ability to spread the defense helped the Spurs. Marshall can do the same thing.

Nice post LJ. I think this would be a good trade to make. To add to your point regarding the +/- figures though, 82games.com listed Nazr as a -8.1 in the playoffs, and Horry as a +9.8. Of course, as you guys have pointed out previously +/- numbers can be decieving. Glenn Robinson is #2 on the team with a plus 11.1. But your point is valid. When Duncan gets space, the Spurs win.