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How much cap room might we have this summer? If we can work a deal with Charlotte so that they don't have to amnesty (and still pay) him, we might be able to demand their second first round pick that currently sits at #13 in the lottery.
Born: Aug 17, 1986
Height: 6-10 / 2.08
Weight: 225 lbs. / 102.1 kg.
Prior to NBA / Country: Louisiana State / USA
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2 years left on his contract.
How much cap room might we have this summer? If we can work a deal with Charlotte so that they don't have to amnesty (and still pay) him, we might be able to demand their second first round pick that currently sits at #13 in the lottery.
If they amnesty ok but no at his $.
You don't get that #13 overall pick without eating that salary cash. That would the price of admission.
Spurs liked him few years ago and even tried to trade for him. If he amnestied, I can see them making a low bid on him. They have looked for an athletic PF for years (Amir Johnson, Tyrus Thomas, Marcus Haislip...).
The Spurs can't trade for him during the draft. The off-season doesn't begin until a couple of weeks later, so they don't have any cap room. They can work out a long-term deal with Charlotte where the Bobcats pick whomever the Spur want at 13 and wait until July to actually send him over, but I don't think that's very likely.
The 13th pick is also too high to be worth the savings. Maybe something like 13 and capspace for Thomas, 29 and the 2014 first would be better, but even then, the Spurs may have to throw in the something more, like the rights to Bertans.
What IS possible if for the Spurs do trade with the Bobcats and take back something of lesser value (like Taylor and a protected first). That seems like more-even value to me.
Are you serious? You think SIXTEEN MILLION DOLLARS is too little to pay for Charlotte's second, later lottery pick? Teams regularly flip/sell late first rounders for three million, and that was BEFORE the stricter tax rules.
My mistake was thinking you meant Charlotte's pick. Detroit's pick isn't even available this season (lottery protected). If you understood that, then my apologies. It would be a gamble for the Spurs to bet on Detroit being a bad enough team next season to justify taking on the salary for the pick. It could turn out really well for them, though, especially if they still like Thomas at all. Indeed, though, I don't think $16 Million is enough compensation for that pick.The Bobcats paid $13 Million for it; I don't think they'd sell it for $3 Million more.
As far as a trade with Charlotte in general goes, the tax doesn't matter, since Charlotte can just amnesty Thomas. Plus, they're no where near the tax line next season. They'd probably like to get out from under Thomas' contract, but if they shed it, they'd have to worry more about the cap-floor than the tax line.
In any event, note what I said above: The Spurs won't have the cap space to use in your proposed trade until July. It's not very common to see a trade stretched out that long.
i used to trade for thomas in 2k all the time. he had pretty good all around ratings and body. was an easy trade target, usually low morale.
he was a let down in fantasy league last season, i think inconsistent. i've only considered picking him up once this year. but he's been hurt or dnp a lot, and the bobcats are losers. so i've passed.
seems like he could be a gem. i bet that bobcat mentality hasn't been doin him any favors. but there's gotta be some talent there.
There is a pick that is bouncing back and forth between #12 and #13 overall. When it's #12 or higher, it belongs to Portland. If it drops to #13 or lower, it become property of Charlotte.
I know Charlotte isn't anywhere near the tax, but if they amnesty him, they still have to play him that sixteen million over the next two seasons. The only way to get out of that is to salary dump him.
I had completely forgotten about Portland's pick. But I don't think that matters. As I said, they just paid $13 Million for a pick, so it's clear they value them highly. If Portland makes a run and the pick drops into the 20s, that's one thing. But right now, I think it's too valuable.
Again, though, it's worth noting that Charlotte is below the tax floor next season. Amnestying Thomas drags them a lot further under. They have to pay the money to somebody, anyway. So that makes it even less worth it to dump money. Add in the fact that the Spurs can't actually trade with them, and it makes it less likely. If the Bobcats are willing to move 13 to get rid of Thomas' contract, some other team will be able to do it during the draft.
Zero chance SA takes on that contract only to get a late lottery pick.
The only chance Thomas wears a SA jersey is by bidding after CHA uses the amnesty clause on him. And seriously, I have a hard time to believe someone will make a bid higher than the min.
Thomas has been terrible in the past few seasons.
If they amnesty, and pay him next year, that does NOT count towards their minimum salary dollar amount. He wouldn't count against their cap, so they'd STILL have to sign players up to the salary floor, AND pay TT's contract. Seems a bit extravagant for a poor, small market team. A lot of the teams that have the cap room wouldn't want to use it for TT and a pick that probably isn't any better than their own.
It would be a complicated trade, and really could probably only happen if Manu retires, but it's not impossible, although it is improbable. I'm just trying to flesh out a scenario where we can get another Kawhi-level pick.
Atlanta currently has 17/18, Utah has 14/21, Phoenix has 5/16, Minnesota has 9/27, Charlotte has 1/maybe 13+. The best two back end picks would be Charlotte's, if they get it, and Phoenix's. I just consider Phoenix a less likely trade partner.
TT isn't the object, the pick is, and a pick two spots after #13 netted us Kawhi.
btw, how did they pay 13M for that pick? From what I see, it was one of the picks that came back from Gerald Wallace. They also have a pick from Detroit that could be lottery in the next year or so. If this trade somehow cost them $13M, it would be split between these picks, so each would "cost" them 6.5M, so they'd still net 9.5M from shipping out TT and that Portland pick to SA.
Bobcats receive the Blazers' 2013 first-round pick (top 12 protected in the 2013, 2014, and 2015, and unprotected in 2016) (Gerald Wallace trade 02-24-11)
Bobcats receive the Pistons' 2013 first-round pick (top 14 protected in the 2013 draft, top 8 in 2014, top 1 in 2015, and unprotected in 2016) (Gerald Wallace trade 02-24-11)
Amnestied players count against the team minimum salary.
Seems counter-intuitive, but OK. They may just want to amnesty him, then.
Sigh.
TT has to be the subject exstatic, simply because SA is still contending with the BIG 3. They won't add an overpaid knucklehead to the roster to add a late lottery pick while Timmy is still in SA. They'd rather use the money to add someone they like.
I understand the move, but It doesn't make sense NOW. Let's say Timmy/Manu retire this season. Then you would have a point.
Yeah, we got Leonard with the 15th pick and I agree with you that SA might find a good player with the pick. But it's a different draft. We don't know if a good prospect (at least as good as Kawhi) will fall to SA again.
Quite honestly, taking on that contract is not worth the gamble, at least in my opinion.
That's why they WON'T (or may not) amnesty or trade him. If since the tax isn't the issue, they have to sped the money regardless. They may as well keep him and the pick.
I have no issue with that. I was just explaining why it's difficult logistically and giving my opinion on why Charlotte wouldn't want to do it.It would be a complicated trade, and really could probably only happen if Manu retires, but it's not impossible, although it is improbable. I'm just trying to flesh out a scenario where we can get another Kawhi-level pick.
Atlanta currently has 17/18, Utah has 14/21, Phoenix has 5/16, Minnesota has 9/27, Charlotte has 1/maybe 13+. The best two back end picks would be Charlotte's, if they get it, and Phoenix's. I just consider Phoenix a less likely trade partner.
Indeed, I thought you meant the Detroit pick when I said that the first time. They did pay $13.2 Million for that pick in the form of Gordon's contract having that extra year. After realizing you didn't mean that pick, I said (or thought I said) that they were willing to spend that much on a pick, so it's clear they value them highly. The Portland pick did come from the Wallace trade (which sucks for them, because they'd have gotten Lillard had they waited a year). They didn't take on any extra salary, but they did give up their best player. That usually makes a team less likely to move picks.
Just to be clear: San Antonio cannot make a salary-dump trade for Thomas until the off-season. By then, the 13th pick will not be some nebulous concept. An actual player will have been chosen with that pick. So this means that the Spurs will have plenty of time to see if the player is worth taking on that contract, and if a player they like falls low enough for them to grab without using that pick, then they won't need to trade with the Bobcats. However, this also means that they will not have any grounds to tell Charlotte whom to select. Two weeks is too long to have good faith in either side.
Regardless of the Tyrus Thomas case, teams doing draft day trades, with a team asking another one to pick a player for them, and that can only be effective after the July moratorium isn't a unrealistic scenario. It happened few times in the previous years (Gay in '06, Rudy Fernandez in '07, Hibbert and Bayless in '08).
Tyrus Thomas has regressed so badly because of health reasons (stomach ulcers, and terrible weight loss). He has practically become useless as a basketball player now. There is no way the Spurs will try to get a player who relies upon athleticism alone and has lost nearly all of it.
Thanks for the information. I thought it had happened, but it still seems comparatively rare. It's harder to see a trade like this go through, though, because it's a salary dump involving a high pick. I could see it being discussed between the two teams, but I don't think the Bobcats would commit to such a scenario until the off-season.
bump.
Michael Jordan's trash is ________________ to the spurs.
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