Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 157
  1. #76
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    84,118
    MJ did not need 6 to be greater than Kobe, but hee needed those to surpass Jabbar, Russell and Magic ...
    I get your point you only need one to validate greatness but to seperate the best of the best rings DO matter
    i agree. one ring isn't enough if you want to be an all-time great. look at dirk/kg, currently LeBron. but once you have 3, 4 they sorta blur at that point

  2. #77
    Veteran Floyd Pacquiao's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    6,704
    Duncan is 1 no doubt. Tim has all the post moves, shoots jumpers at a high percentage and is a beast defensively. Malone is no where near tim defensively. Malone also has no where near as good a post game as Duncan. Malone was just a product of john stockton getting spoon fed off pick and rolls. let us proceed...

  3. #78
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    83,089
    It's

    Tim
    Karl
    Charles


    Chuck says so, good enough for me

  4. #79
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    83,089
    Pau didn't take Kobe to the Finals. How could you say that when he couldn't even garner 1 win (0-12) before Kobe took him in? And Kobe couldn't get past the Suns because Nash (MVP) >>>> Smush Parker, Amare >>>> Kwame, and the rest of their team was collectively better than our one man gang: Kobe. Even if he would drop 50 on them, it wasn't enough.



    - Pau's game didn't change. _irk was on a mission that year. No shame in losing to eventual champions. And at you guys being two-faced about Pau. I'll say it again. Before Kobe, you guys could give two s about him. After Kobe, all of a sudden he's the shiznit who took Kobe to the Finals. He couldn't even garner 1 playoff game win without Kobe.
    You weren't watching the same games. Pau was defeated before the series started. That's how we knew about his gf ing shannon brown.

  5. #80
    Banned
    My Team
    Miami Heat
    Post Count
    6,937
    dirk, duncan and KG are the only current players im gonna pick for the top 10 PFs of all time. malone and barkley deserve to be there as well, and bird is a lock too if he's regarded as a PF rather than a SF. the rest 4 positions will go to old-school basketballers who played predominantly in the 60s and 70s, i haven't watched much of their games so im not gonna make any selections from them based on little knowledge. rodman & ben wallace were both defensive elites back in their days and probably also deserve nominations here but i don't think any top10 list should include any players who have little-none offensive game tbh. so here's the list of my picks for the top 10 PFs all time, in no specific order

    dirk
    duncan
    KG
    bird
    barkley
    malone
    some old-school PFs from 70s and 60s

  6. #81
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    24,565
    KG was almost every bit as good as Timmy during their primes. The only knock on him was that he couldnt get out of the first round for a while but that had alot more to do with his #2 being guys like Wally and Troy Hudson than him being a loser. Any time he had talent comparable to what Timmy has had with Manu/Tony whether it be Casell/Spree or Pierce/Ray/Rondo he has made deep playoff runs or won the le. He put up double-doubles at a higher rate than even TD, he was just as dominant defensively, and his numbers were just as good (better actually out of necessity). If he had given up on Minny sooner instead of trying to be loyal no way would any re s dare compare Dirk to him. He was the best player on that 2008 le team too, if you dont think that youre stupid and a mavfan.

    I wont speak much about Chuck or Malone since I only saw the end of their careers, but anyone who thinks KG and TD arent the best of this era are ing re s tbh.

  7. #82
    MVParker racm's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    6,787
    Serious question: Did Malone have a playoff run where he decided he wanted a ring and NO ONE was gonna stop him?

    Kobe? No, he got blown out as 110-82 and 122-86 show.
    LeBron? He wilted in the Finals.
    Kidd? I don't even know what he did in the 2003 Finals.

    Dirk and Duncan have that over Malone.

    And consider that the 2011 Mavs and 2003 Spurs were composed of over the hill vets and players nobody wanted (old Kidd, Chandler fell out of the rotation in Charlotte due to injuries, while the Spurs had a soon-to-retire Robinson, a rookie Ginobili, a sop re Parker, Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson before they were famous).

  8. #83
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    24,565
    I love Dirk and his 2011 run was amazing ...but #2?!! GTFO
    Ive noticed that if theres someone that loves swallowing his load almost as much as mavfan its the spurfans on ST tbh.

    I mean Dirk is a nice guy and KG is kind of a , but that doesnt make Dirk the better player.

  9. #84
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    24,565
    And consider that the 2011 Mavs and 2003 Spurs were composed of over the hill vets and players nobody wanted (old Kidd, Chandler fell out of the rotation in Charlotte due to injuries, while the Spurs had a soon-to-retire Robinson, a rookie Ginobili, a sop re Parker, Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson before they were famous).
    Shut the up you dumbass. TD was both the offense and the anchor of the defense for that 2003 team. Dirk was the 5th best defender in their starting line-up. Go ahead and predictably bring up Diaw>Lee so you can feel better about your re ed take too you dumb .

    And who gives a if Tyson was often injured or had fallen out of the rotation in Charlotte, when he was arguably the best defender in the NBA in 2011 and the main reason why the Mavs made the jump from being the proverbial regular season champs to winning a le. The Mavs were well known soft chokers prior to his arrival, and Big Daddy Tyson himself said that.
    Last edited by FkLA; 03-19-2013 at 12:07 AM.

  10. #85
    Banned
    My Team
    Miami Heat
    Post Count
    6,937
    racm needs to eat at least 1,000 more tacos to become a real "dumb " tbh

  11. #86
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    24,565
    racm needs to eat at least 1,000 more tacos to become a real "dumb " tbh

  12. #87
    Banned
    My Team
    Miami Heat
    Post Count
    6,937
    Shut the up you dumbass. TD was both the offense and the anchor of the defense for that 2003 team. Dirk was the 5th best defender in their starting line-up. Go ahead and predictably bring up Diaw>Lee so you can feel better about your re ed take too you dumb .

    And who gives a if Tyson was often injured or had fallen out of the rotation in Charlotte, when he was arguably the best defender in the NBA in 2011 and the main reason why the Mavs made the jump from being the proverbial regular season champs to winning a le. The Mavs were well known soft chokers prior to his arrival, and Big Daddy Tyson himself said that.
    that was like the first season in 5-6 years in which he didn't miss 20+ games if i remember correct. dude was a huge asset of the 2011' team w/o a doubt but no one could make sure at that point of time that he would continue to maintain such consistency and durability. TC had a history of being injury prone and the mavs FO must have taken everything into consideration before making the decision to let him walk imho. it might look a poor decision in hindsight, but at that point of time no one could prophesy it tbh

  13. #88
    Banned
    My Team
    Miami Heat
    Post Count
    6,937
    im thinking that TC's expiring contract was also a big element that encouraged them mavs to trade for him, instead of other realistic targets who were better overall but had longer contracts (like iggy), and they didn't expect this move to crank out such big results tbh. he was regarded as nothing but a short-term measure by the mavs FO and their fans upon his arrival. it's like you won a 1m prize in lottery with horse luck, but you can't expect it to happen a 2nd time. mavs were lucky to have finally won it, and they picked the low-risk option for the sake of the team's future imho. cuban had every right to choose what he throught was the less risky option, when he was the man responsible for every penny of the team's expenditure.

  14. #89
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    30,527
    Show me another power forward who could ever do this:



    Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...306010PHO.html

    I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

    Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.

    Name one other PF who can dominate Shaq in the playoffs... you can't. I love Chuck but Timmy is the greatest PF of all-time, period.







    Near quadruple-double in the Finals...



    40 pts and 15 rbs against the Suns in the WCF..



    I could post moer, but you get the point. These performances are legendary tbh. Just look at the dominance.
    Last edited by BatManu20; 03-19-2013 at 01:24 AM.

  15. #90
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    8,037
    Show me another power forward who could ever do this:



    Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...306010PHO.html

    I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.

    Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.
    You're cherry-picking stats, so now I will. Timmy is second only to Wilt in most playoff 40pts 15rb 5ast games.

    If we're going by both ends of the court, KG and Timmy are the top 2. Timmy gets the nod due to intangibles, greater dominance, and carrying that 2003 team to a le.

    Timmy
    KG
    Barkley/Malone
    Dirk
    McHale
    meh...

  16. #91
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    38,286
    MJ did not need 6 to be greater than Kobe, but hee needed those to surpass Jabbar, Russell and Magic ...
    I get your point you only need one to validate greatness but to seperate the best of the best rings DO matter
    I have a hard time with the notion that KAJ is not the true GOAT. The media loves MJ. KAJ? Not so much. That's probably the difference tbh.

  17. #92
    Believe. mercos's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    1,185
    I have a hard time with the notion that KAJ is not the true GOAT. The media loves MJ. KAJ? Not so much. That's probably the difference tbh.
    KAJ has a strong case when media bias is tuned out. He played a far more important position, won just as many championships, is the game's all time leading scorer, the list goes on and on. The biggest advantage MJ had over KAJ is in killer instinct. Jordan was an assassin. When you throw out the bias, it is an interesting debate though.

    The debate over power forward is not interesting at all though. Duncan is head and shoulders above the rest of the field. On top of more championships than the other contenders, his teams have been consistently excellent and he is the main reason. He plays both sides of the ball at an elite level. He is also clutch. The only debate that makes sense is if Duncan is a power forward or not. If you do consider him one, this one is a laugher.

    1. Tim Duncan
    2. KG
    3. Charles Barkley
    4. Dirk Nowitzki
    5. Karl Malone

  18. #93
    GFY I. Hustle's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    13,200
    KAJ has a strong case when media bias is tuned out. He played a far more important position, won just as many championships, is the game's all time leading scorer, the list goes on and on. The biggest advantage MJ had over KAJ is in killer instinct. Jordan was an assassin. When you throw out the bias, it is an interesting debate though.

    The debate over power forward is not interesting at all though. Duncan is head and shoulders above the rest of the field. On top of more championships than the other contenders, his teams have been consistently excellent and he is the main reason. He plays both sides of the ball at an elite level. He is also clutch. The only debate that makes sense is if Duncan is a power forward or not. If you do consider him one, this one is a laugher.

    1. Tim Duncan
    2. KG
    3. Charles Barkley
    4. Dirk Nowitzki
    5. Karl Malone
    I guess I am just a homer like Mecos because I agree. Good job, Mecos. Mecos

  19. #94
    Veteran dunkman's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    2,868
    The Mailman was a better player then Chuck, individually, had more team success, more durable, played solid defense, the only thing Chuck did better was rebound and not by much. Chuck was a playoffs choker too, missed the playoffs and got traded in his prime 2 times, couldn't win with Dr. J/Moses, or with Hakeem/Drexler or with Hakeem/Pippen.

  20. #95
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    15,453
    For me, it's probably easier to put PFs in tiers, the players within the tiers are relatively interchangeable, and you can flip them around based on arguments and preferences, but between tiers, there is an obvious difference between their caliber.

    Tier 1: Duncan
    Anchor on offense and defense for 4 championships. Great leader, versatile, easy to build around. Successful with multiple iterations of teams. His 2003 playoff run was astounding, one of the best playoff run of all time.

    Tier 2: Nowitzki
    Unconventional PF, one of the best of all time offensively. Average defensively, but very underrated throughout his career. Leads by example. Relatively difficult to build around due to his defensive weakness and unorthodox offensive game, but once the right guys are assembled around him, he rung.

    Garnett
    Fantastic defensively (though slightly overrated as the years go by), very good offensively. Great passer, loyal teammate, fake tough guy. Lack of a go-to offensive game limits him. He would have never, and have never, won a le as the lead offensive guy on the team.

    Barkley
    Monster on offense, but could be a ball-stopper and hold on to the ball for too long. Sieve on defense, unless when he wants to play, then he becomes quite capable. Dominant rebounder, dominant inside scorer, effective offensively out to three point line. Can be a fantastic passer, runs the floor extremely well, one of the most unique physical specimen the league has ever seen.

    Tier 3:
    Karl Malone
    Great finisher, quite a bit overrated on that end as he feasted off of John Stockton, who had more responsibilities creating offense for the Jazz as Malone did. One of the dirtiest and fakest players of all time. Very good defensively, especially late in his career. Known chocker. Confirmed pedophile.

    Kevin McHale
    Best low post finisher of all time, absolutely unstoppable in the low blocks. Could be better if not for a season and a half of his prime lost to leg injuries. Great defensive player. Bad passer. Doesn’t know when to dominate a game.

    Tier 4:
    Elvin Hayes
    Great offensive player, horrible defensive player. Ball hog.

    Dennis Rodman
    Best of the best defensively, easily top 3 all time defender, if not tops ever, can defend inside or out. Mentally unstable, requires a strong and wiling head coach to coddle him. Willingly sacrifices wins for fame when he decides to mentally check out. Could be a decent offensive player, but decided not to.

    Dave Cowens
    More a C than a PF, and he played during the dark ages of the league, so doesn’t get much props. But a fiery compe or, fierce rebounder, and very difficult to guard

    Adrian Dantley
    Officially a SF, but he was pretty much, at least offensively, the Barkley before Barkley. Unstoppable on offense, uses his lower body well to establish position. Great at drawing fouls. Black hole on offense, questionable on defense. He was essentially disposable after pedophile came into prominence in Utah.

    Honourable Mention:

    Dave DeBusschere
    Enforcer, rough and tough defensive player, slightly overrated offensively. I always thought he wouldn’t even be in the conversion if he never played in NY.

    Bob Pe
    Old era, not too familiar

    Dolph Schayes
    See above

  21. #96
    Goodwill Ambassador spurs_fan_in_exile's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    11,146
    1. Duncan. I hate to just hang it on the rings argument but while a lot of guys had an empty trophy cases thanks to MJ Duncan led teams to four finals in an era where the West was no lessed stacked than it was in the mid 90s.

    2. Malone. He's a sack of , but he was an effective one on both ends of the court for a lot of years. I give him the edge on Chuck for two reasons: Malone was better on D (the fact that he nearly murdered people doing it is a matter for the courts) and he was an ironman. By Chuck's own admission he wasn't much of a defender and his years with the Rockets were marred by injuries that his weight exacerbated. Outside of the Mailman's last gasp for a ring he aged pretty damn well and even in 2004 he guarded Duncan one on one about as well as anyone has.

    3. Barkley. If we were to just boil it down to ranking guys in their prime, for just one season I'd probably put Chuck in the number two slot. He took a set of physical gifts comparable to guys like Malik Rose and could just take over the entire damn court at will it seemed. The best way I could remember it is that when he went into beast mode out there it looked like an old college game where you'd see one sure fire lottery pick on the court with 9 nobodies. Every offensive possession ran through him, every rebound ended up in his hands.

    4. Garnett. Burns me to say it. I think I may have actually ranked Dirk ahead of him at some point on this board in the past. If that's the case I apologize. Chances are this discussion will arise again in six months and I'll flip flop again. I post mainly from work and I drink on the job. Keeping this stuff straight gets tricky. My reasoning today: Garnett's a good scorer and great defender, Dirk's an elite scorer who only in recent years rose to something better than an awful defender.

    5. Dirk. It's Barkley/Malone all over again. If I could just pick a guy for one season I'd probably put Dirk's best ahead of KG's. The way he put the Mavs on his back for that championship run was about as good an individual postseason was something special.

    6. Your mother, Trebek! Oh ho ho ho ho ho! The rest of the names that generally round out these lists are all too before my time for me to look at the stats and make any meaningful judgment. McHale seems like a respectable pick mostly because the comparison that I heard so often in Duncan's early years from some smart folks is that he had the "best pure post game since McHale". Also, funny on Cheers.

    I don't know if Marcus "Funky Bunk" Dupree is an actual human being who played in the ABA or a created character my roommate made on NBA Street, but I'll rank him #7. Dude could flat out ball and his fro was epic.

    #8 actually does go to Trebek's mother. Naismith (a Canadian) died late in 1939. Alex was born in July of 1940. It is widely believed that his last act on this earth was to sire the future Jeopardy host. With many of Canada's men answering Britain's call to arms in the early years of World War II the Canadian basketball leagues turned to female players to keep things going. Imbued with the seed of the game's founder Trebek's mom revolutionized the game and in the process became what many believe to be the first power forward of all time. True story.

    #9. McAdoo. Fun to say. Good enough for me.

    #10. Rasheed Wallace, if for no other reason than all the joy he brought to all our lives.

  22. #97
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    20,267
    1. Duncan
    2. KG/Malone
    3. KG/Malone
    4. Barkley/Dirk
    5. Barkley/Dirk

  23. #98
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    20,267
    I think each ring is exponentially less important than the last. Honestly, I don't say MJ>Kobe because 6>5. There's all sorts of reasons. Even if Kobe rings a 6th time, I wouldnt put him up there with MJ. I think once you win it 2-3 times, you've proven yourself plenty. Look at the NFL, for example. Marino is excluded off every "GOAT" qb list because he never won. Peyton has 1 superbowl win, and people are glad to put him up there with the all time greats. People will say Elway > Brady even though Elway has 2 and Brady has 3. Winning the first is the big one, which is what guys like Dirk, Pierce, KG, Bron (currently have) that validates themselves. Winning again just goes to show it wasn't a 1 year fluke. But once you already have multiple rings, your point has been proven.

    Its like, winning a game by 1 says you squeaked out, but bettered them. Winning by 10 says you had a comfy win. But is there a big difference between winning by 30 or winning by 40?
    Bingo. Rings should count in arguments for rankings to an extent. It shouldn't be the whole argument. Was Bill Russell 5.5 times better than Hakeem Olajuwon? I know if I had to choose one for my franchise, I'm no doubt taking Hakeem.

  24. #99
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    20,267
    spurs_fan_in_exile with the goods

    Duncan is clear #1 with 2-5 being very hard for me to choose, and I didn't watch most of these guys in their prime. There are always 2 big things to consider when making GOAT/all-time best positional rankings, and they should be clarified before even beginning, or perhaps doing several lists with different criteria.

    1. Best player throughout career or best single season performance/best prime
    2. Best relative to their compe ion vs. best raw player

    In regards to bullet #2, from the perspective of comparing the legends to the compe ion they faced, it doesn't get much better than Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell. Would either be able to stop Shaq in his prime, or Hakeem? no. Maybe Wilt. Maybe. Similarly, if you look at pictures of Pete Maravich and Bob Cousy, it's very hard to imagine them being able to even start in today's NBA, let alone be superstars. Of course there are so many factors here, the evolution of sports as multi-million dollar industries, increasing compe ion, sports science, training, etc. From a raw player perspective, it doesn't get much better than Lebron James. Maybe if he also had a jumper like Durant, but his jumper still is much improved.

    In the PF case, interestingly enough most of the players we are discussing for top 5 all played within the same 20 years or so. But I hate naming a sole GOAT in sports when you have extremely different eras and positions. I don't know how you can say Jordan, Russell, Hakeem, Kareem, eventually LeBron are any greater than the other. I prefer to lump them in a plural GOATs list, and compare players within their positions.

  25. #100
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    24,565
    Maybe once the fresh scent of 2011 wears off more people will realize how stupid it is/was to ever rate Dirk #2 or over KG. Looks like some s have already come to that realization.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •