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  1. #101
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    Damn jt shoved his BBC down avantes throat

    No mercy

  2. #102
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    Damn jt shoved his BBC down avantes throat

    No mercy

    I do think it's time to seperate the men from the boys here. When RW totally out plays Luck next season then I'll do my talking.

    I'm done with the childish behavior here, time to step up to another level. Let's talk football not act silly.
    Last edited by Avante; 05-20-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  3. #103
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    You were wrong about SF winning the Super Bowl

  4. #104
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    You were wrong about SF winning the Super Bowl
    Obviously.

  5. #105
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    But you were so confident they would win

    I thought you knew so much about football?

  6. #106
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    But you were so confident they would win

    I thought you knew so much about football?
    One play away from winning it, so it was close.

    I'm pretty solid in the who, what, where and when aspects of the game. I do go back to the 1920's and have done the work. Pretty much have it covered.

  7. #107
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    but totally predictable, it's either agree with you or you go berserk.
    This pretty much sums up your posting history on this site.

  8. #108
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    They were getting assraped before the biggest fluke in SB history happened

    And who's to say flacco wasn't going to come back down the field for a winning score? He already destroyed that great in defense throughout the game

  9. #109
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    Also, JT made you look like a child in this thread.

  10. #110
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    You are talking...probably...I'm talking what actually went down, big difference. The facts are all that matters not some..."well if and if and well"....that means nothing. The facts are what I'm talking about.
    Let's look at wins/tds/lackof INTS/completion %/playoff success/QB ranking....for all the QB's who ever played the game. Who do you think would score the highest if points were attached to some scoring system?
    Dunno how I missed this last night but it's funny how it's cool for you to deal in hypotheticals when it helps your cause, but I can't do it to explain why Luck's stats were lower.

    Roethlisberger won 13 games as a rookie and had a higher completion percentage, won a playoff game and actually made it to a conference le game. If you go anywhere near saying "Yeah that's only cuz the Steelers defense was so good" I will cut you. I'm just looking at the facts. More wins, higher percentage, earned his team a first round bye, won a playoff game in the same round that Wilson failed to win a playoff game and advanced to the AFC championship. Shove your hypothetical point system up your ass, Wilson did not have the greatest rookie season ever and it's not even close.

  11. #111
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    Remember me saying...all things considered?

    RW started 16 games
    Big Ben 13

    RW had 26 tds
    Big Ben...17

    RW 489 rushing yards
    Big Ben 144

    RW had 10 INTS
    Big Ben 11

    RW had a 100 QB ranking
    Big Ben 98.1

    RW with a 64.1 completion %
    Big Ben 66.4

    Give the nod to Big Ben in the playoffs

    So as we can see RW had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever. Only one other QB even in the argument. RW also had more passing yards.

    So there's RW totally out playing everyone who is in the Hall of Fame, when it comes to a rookie season. That's about as impressive as it gets wouldn't you say?

    Take all the QB stats/playoff success and have a 1-10 scoring system. All the QB are entered. RW would win this, you disagree?

    RGIII had a great rookie season also. But he did lose in his first playoff game.

    Give me the name of any QB in the Hall of Fame and let's see how they stack up vs RW in that rookie season. Go ahead give me a name.
    Last edited by Avante; 05-20-2013 at 06:12 PM.

  12. #112
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    They were getting assraped before the biggest fluke in SB history happened

    And who's to say flacco wasn't going to come back down the field for a winning score? He already destroyed that great in defense throughout the game
    The bottom line is with plenty of time left on the clock the Niners were in scoring position to win the game. We all know holding when we see it. So it's first and goal on the two yard line. I like our chances. Take away a great kick return and, hmmm?

    But it's over now time to move on.
    Last edited by Avante; 05-20-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  13. #113
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    Take all the QB stats/playoff success and have a 1-10 scoring system. All the QB are entered. RW would win this, you disagree?
    Nope, I thought we were just going by facts?

    Roethlisberger: 2nd round victory, Lost in AFC championship
    Wilson: WC victory, Lost in 2nd round

    Roethlisberger > Wilson

    I mean, this works for you, right? Because it's exactly how you're propping up Wilson over Luck. Shove your hypothetical point system up your ass. That system doesn't exist and is only relevant now because I found QB who went further in the playoffs as a rookie. Also Joe Flacco made the AFC le game as a rookie and did not earn his team a first round bye, so he has 2 postseason wins and a loss in a higher round than Wilson.

    Flacco > Wilson

  14. #114
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    Also I thought you were done talking to me because I called you a dip ? I guess that was only relevant last night when I was making you look like a clown and you didn't have anything to defend yourself with, right dip ?

  15. #115
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    Looks like another thread where Avante get's backed down in the paint and can only a) flop in a weak attempt to draw the charge or b) attempt to hold his ground while getting bullied with a power move, allowing his opponent to score the basket and draw the foul.

  16. #116
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    Also I thought you were done talking to me because I called you a dip ? I guess that was only relevant last night when I was making you look like a clown and you didn't have anything to defend yourself with, right dip ?
    I'm trying to establish a higher level of conversation here. Thought you might join in.

    I've made my point, it's very obvious that as of right now RW is the better QB. It's also a fact that when we look at everything and consider everything RW had one of the greatest rookie seasons we've ever seen.

    Now it would be nice if you dropped the silly immature stuff and talked like a grown man, it's far more productive and I'll pay attention more. When you start foaming at the mouth and tossing out insults I lose interest.

    I have Flacco's rookie stats right here, trust me when I tell you not even worth comparing. RW in a landslide.
    Last edited by Avante; 05-20-2013 at 10:45 PM.

  17. #117
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    Speaking of the Seahawks, what's with all this PED talk? Hope it doesn't become a huge distraction, looking forward to Niners vs Seahawks.

  18. #118
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    I'm just laying out the facts, Mrs. Dip . Two rookie QBs that went farther than Wilson, and one of them won more playoff games than both. You now suddenly need a Rookie QB Statistical Scoring System to argue Wilson had a superior season than Roethlisberger. Yet, it's unfair for me to properly argue the reason Luck's stats are worse is chiefly due to his offensive line forcing him into 256 hits, pressures and sacks thus leading to lots of rushed decision making, interceptions and low percentage throws. It's really too bad Luck couldn't play behind an offensive line like, say, Seattle's. Or a West Coast Offense like, say, Seattle's. It's his fault he played in an offense that didn't really even suit him and still passed for more yards than any other rookie and has the second best W-L turnaround of all-time.

    But nope we just argue the facts here on SpursTalk: For Adults. No dip name calling here. Wilson: 1 playoff win, Luck: 0 playoff wins. Wilson's better. Just like Roethlisberger: 1 higher-weighted playoff win and Flacco: 2 playoff wins, are better than Wilson. Facts are facts, can't dispute those. No way, no how.

  19. #119
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    I am talking about more than just playoff success or lack of it. I'm looking at everything that goes into deciding QB success and failure, I assumed that was very obvious.

    RW totally out stated both Ben and Flacco, they had the playoff success. RW toyally out stats Luck and has the playoff success. RGIII is the one with the stats on a par with RW but he doesn't have any playoff success. The bottom line is when we talk great rookie QB's you have to talk RW before you do Luck. Better stats, playoff success.

    I get the difference in situations, we all realize what our three rookie QB's were up against. If Luck had been in Seattle and RW in Indy..??? If RGIII had.....and we can kick that around and around but we actually don't really know, what we do know is what actually/really went down. The facts are RW was the one who had the best rookie season. Will Luck outshine him 2013, that could happen, I do doubt it but it's a very real possibility.

    Thank you for cleaning up your game, it's appreciated. Bored with the silliness.
    Last edited by Avante; 05-20-2013 at 11:43 PM.

  20. #120
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    I get the difference in situations, we all realize what our three rookie QB's were up against. If Luck had been in Seattle and RW in Indy..??? If RGIII had.....and we can kick that around and around but we actually don't really know, what we do know is what actually/really went down. The facts are RW was the one who had the best rookie season. Will Luck outshine him 2013, that could happen, I do doubt it but it's a very real possibility.
    First, in regards to the part in boldface, this is the first time you has so much as acknowledged the existence of extenuating cir stances with respect to the hows and whys behind each player's stats. That's a start. Second, in regards to the part in italics, we also know that there isn't a rookie QB statistical measuring stick, so it's pointless to talk about where Wilson would rank "IF" there were one. Third, how are you STILL confused about what we're arguing about? Every response from you it's "Wilson had the better season." EVERYONE in this thread arguing the Luck counterpoint has agreed with you on this. I don't know if you're genuinely confused about the discussion or are genuinely a dip . Fourth, another thing we do know is that two quarterbacks ended their season further along than Wilson did, meaning they are better than him because they have the stats and the postseason wins, which are the facts that we know and can't dispute.

  21. #121
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    Do you always insult those you disagree with? Come on man, don't make it to where I'm looking at you like I do the obvious kids here. Cool the name calling. You notice I'm trying to carry on a adult conversation with this? Have some class. You're going to cut me, I'd love to see you try. You'd look awful funny with a stump where a hand should be. I'm a big guy.

    Ok...

    Once again if we look at everything involved with being an NFL QB, stats, playoff success. RW really is right there at the top when it comes to rookie play. I or anyone actually can make a very strong case that he had the best "overall" season of anyone. Remember this an ac ulation of things not just stats or playoffs. More a combined grouping of a mulitude of QB tangibles.

    As you saw with the Niners loss in the SB , this.."well if"...doesn't work too well. It really is what actually went down. In 2012 Russell Wilson had one of the greatest rookie seasons we've ever seen..."all things"...considered.

    Andrew Luck will be a solid NFL QB with time but as of right now he's the 26th ranked. Nobody really cares about...."well you see if he'd......"....trust me!

    Here's a funny one.

    When the Seahawks beat the Packers with that horrendous non call it was..."that sucked, the Packers won that game". When the Niners lose the SB because of that horrendous non call now it's..."hey that's football".
    Last edited by Avante; 05-21-2013 at 01:17 AM.

  22. #122
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    Do you always insult those you disagree with? Come on man, don't make it to where I'm looking at you like I do the obvious kids here. Cool the name calling. You notice I'm trying to carry on a adult conversation with this? Have some class. You're going to cut me, I'd love to see you try. You'd look awful funny with a stump where a hand should be. I'm a big guy.
    Couple things. I can assure you I'm taller, stockier, stronger, younger and in better shape than you. Don't make threats the entire board knows you can't back up, dip .

    Ok...

    Once again if we look at everything involved with being an NFL QB, stats, playoff success. RW really is right there at the top when it comes to rookie play. I or anyone actually can make a very strong case that he had the best "overall" season of anyone. Remember this an ac ulation of things not just stats or playoffs. More a combined grouping of a mulitude of QB tangibles.
    Sorry, but he didn't. He simply did not go further than Roethlisberger or Flacco. Just giving you the facts you love to give me so much. See how dumb your argument style is? Not so fun when it's used against you is it?

    As you saw with the Niners loss in the SB , this.."well if"...doesn't work too well. It really is what actually went down. In 2012 Russell Wilson had one of the greatest rookie seasons we've ever seen..."all things"...considered.
    I don't know why you keep bringing up the Niners when we're talking about Wilson and Luck. The do they have to do with anything? The only "if" that factors into the Niners winning the Super Bowl is "if" they played better, then they would have won.


    Andrew Luck will be a solid NFL QB with time but as of right now he's the 26th ranked. Nobody really cares about...."well you see if he'd......"....trust me!
    Damn! The 26th ranked QB took his team to the playoffs and won more games than the guy you've been propping up this entire thread! He must really suck!

    P.S. We're not talking about Luck's overall rank against the other 31 teams. We're talking about why it's dumb to say Wilson is better than him when he's on a better team that didn't subject him to low QB stats with their lack of overall talent. Why did you even bring this up?

    Here's a funny one.

    When the Seahawks beat the Packers with that horrendous non call it was..."that sucked, the Packers won that game". When the Niners lose the SB because of that horrendous non call now it's..."hey that's football".
    Once again, the do the Niners have anything to do with what we're talking about? Delusional old dip strikes again.

  23. #123
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    Finally, and I know this won't stop Deputy Dip from responding to me, but here are the Offensive and Defensive ranks for each team for 2012:


    Indianapolis Colts
    Total offense: 10th
    Passing: 7th
    Rushing: 22nd

    Total defense: 26th
    Passing: 21st
    Rushing: 29th

    Seattle Seahawks
    Total offense: 17th
    Passing: 27th
    Rushing: 3rd

    Total defense: 4th
    Passing: 6th
    Rushing: 10th

    As I've been saying the whole time, football is a team game. Wilson might have put up better stats than Luck did, but stats don't mean . I should know because I watched Peyton Manning put up 32+ TD, 65% completions, 4,000+ yard seasons for almost a decade and a half and only have one Super Bowl ring (which only happened because of a stout defense in the playoffs) as well as a losing record in the postseason. But for all of Russell Wilson's awesome stats, he's clearly a better QB, right?

    Then why do the Indianapolis Colts have a higher rank in total offense and passing offense, if their QB was so bad? The bottom line is that you want your QB to succeed at passing and Luck did pretty well for a rookie on a bad team. The great one only completed 56% of his passes as a rookie (and had 9 more turnovers) but no one would dare say Manning is a ty QB now. I'd also like to point out that it's nice to have a defense get create turnovers for you and stop the other team from scoring for you thus decreasing your overall number of low percentage throws by not having to pass all day long to get back in the game or possibly win.

  24. #124
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    Couple things. I can assure you I'm taller, stockier, stronger, younger and in better shape than you. Don't make threats the entire board knows you can't back up, dip .



    Sorry, but he didn't. He simply did not go further than Roethlisberger or Flacco. Just giving you the facts you love to give me so much. See how dumb your argument style is? Not so fun when it's used against you is it?



    I don't know why you keep bringing up the Niners when we're talking about Wilson and Luck. The do they have to do with anything? The only "if" that factors into the Niners winning the Super Bowl is "if" they played better, then they would have won.




    Damn! The 26th ranked QB took his team to the playoffs and won more games than the guy you've been propping up this entire thread! He must really suck!

    P.S. We're not talking about Luck's overall rank against the other 31 teams. We're talking about why it's dumb to say Wilson is better than him when he's on a better team that didn't subject him to low QB stats with their lack of overall talent. Why did you even bring this up?



    Once again, the do the Niners have anything to do with what we're talking about? Delusional old dip strikes again.
    You were going to cut me but Im making threats-????? It would be bug vs windsheild you being the bug, trust me.

    You are totally and completely not getting it at all. Can't say I'm surprised, I'm not. When you see...all things considered....what does that tell you?

    Obviously the Niner talk was an example of..."so what, it was what it was"...not surprised you missed on that either.

    Ok this is the last time I'm telling you this, please do your best, ok?

    Nobody cares about excuses, ok? We saw what we saw, one guy throwing TD's and winning a playoff (almost two) the other throwing INTS and losing his playoff game. That really is all that matters, all this talk about ...if....means zero.

    Try to grasp the concept, ok?

    I'm looking at eveything when comparing RW with other rookie QB's, not just playoff success, ya with me on that? It's a combination of stats and playoffs. In that combo it really is RW outshining everyone. He had the stats and won a playoff game.

    How many rookies start all 16 games, yes it's rare. RW ws the total package, only a fool wouldn't get that.

    Ok man it's real obvious you aren't going to be getting this anytime soon so I'm moving on. This coming season let's see who accomplishs more, we'll pick this up then.


    Oh yeah, when I say don't call me..dip ..well let's just say that was too easy.

    Done and don't ever call me dip , hahaha!!!!!!
    Last edited by Avante; 05-21-2013 at 12:32 PM.

  25. #125
    The Crominator J.T.'s Avatar
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    You were going to cut me but Im making threats-????? It would be bug vs windsheild you being the bug, trust me.
    Care to list off your stats? The "I'm a big guy" stuff doesn't frighten me at all. You're also over 40 years older than me and I give zero s about beating up a delusional old dip who's essentially asking for it at this point.

    You are totally and completely not getting it at all. Can't say I'm surprised, I'm not. When you see...all things considered....what does that tell you?

    Obviously the Niner talk was an example of..."so what, it was what it was"...not surprised you missed on that either.

    Ok this is the last time I'm telling you this, please do your best, ok?
    What's not to get? I'm just laying out the facts! The facts man. They're right there. You can't dispute the facts.

    Nobody cares about excuses, ok? We saw what we saw, one guy throwing TD's and winning a playoff (almost two) the other throwing INTS and losing his playoff game. That really is all that matters, all this talk about ...if....means zero.
    I'm not talking about "if". I'm taking about "why". There's a big difference. No "if" Andrew Luck played on a better team, he would have outplayed Wilson decisively. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about why his stats are the way they are and how that has zero to do with his abilities and skills as a QB. You're the one talking about me talking about "if".


    I'm looking at eveything when comparing RW with other rookie QB's, not just playoff success, ya with me on that? It's a combination of stats and playoffs. In that combo it really is RW outshining everyone. He had the stats and won a playoff game.

    How many rookies start all 16 games, yes it's rare. RW ws the total package, only a fool wouldn't get that.
    Well I mean Roethlisberger has the completion percentage, which is what you said is the only thing that matters when talking about quarterbacks. Plus he has the postseason success and more regular season wins. All Wilson did was tie Peyton Manning in passing touchdowns. Myself and most other NFL observers give zero s about a quarterback's rushing stats so we'll go ahead and throw those out the window for Wilson. He had a pretty good season, yeah. Better than Luck's stats-wise. But his team's overall passing offense was in the cellar while Luck's was Top 10. Football is a team game, not a game where a couple stars can win a le like basketball. And Luck also started 16 games. Whoopdy in' do.

    Ok man it's real obvious you aren't going to be getting this anytime soon so I'm moving on. This coming season let's see who accomplishsd more, we'll pick this up then. Done~~~~~~~~~~~
    Cool deal bud, I'm looking forward to this season quite a bit. My man Luck is gonna ball.

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