Would you give up Danny Green for Tyreke Evans

[HI-FI]

I've said vet minimum, he's made far enough money to be satisfied for a career after playing, plus he could always take a front office job. Vet min is around 1.4 but I'd offer him at least 2 with some incentives.. Maybe, less than 100 turnovers in the season he gets something.

He and his people would probably feel insulted with that number. I just hope this next contract gives us a chance for Duncan getting another ring, I feel that Ginobili's last contract really came back to haunt us in that regard. I had problems with that contract, not because I foresaw this Finals debacle, but because I thought it was too much for a guy who was becoming more unreliable with injuries. Ultimately, a player who is popular will always be overpaid, unfortunately.

[Chinook]

so you're saying Ginobili's next contract could us over like the previous one? what is a reasonable amount for Manu?

Well despite what some people are saying, Ginobili's stats still put him in line for about a $20M/3 deal. That's what he's worth, but that's not necessarily what he's in line to make. Duncan is still worth $20 Million a year, even though he only makes half that, so anything between $3-5 Million a year is fair. If Ginobili is willing to go on the lower end of that, why not take the room exception, which pays almost as much, but frees up $3 Million in cap space? I imagine that's the only way the Spurs land a big free agent, as they have less than $11 Million to split between Ginobili and a free agent if Manu doesn't take the exception (provided Bonner is waived and not amnestied). I wouldn't be surprised to see Ginobili get a deal on the higher end, which leaves pretty much the "MLE" and room exception to improve the roster.

I've said vet minimum, he's made far enough money to be satisfied for a career after playing, plus he could always take a front office job. Vet min is around 1.4 but I'd offer him at least 2 with some incentives.. Maybe, less than 100 turnovers in the season he gets something.

The problem there is offering Ginobili a two-year minimum deal actually cuts into the cap space by a sizable about. The Spurs can't use the minimum-salary exception with a two-year deal, and the league won't pay some of the cost like they will with a one-year deal. May as well just use the room exception (about $5.5M/2) and be done with it.

[Chinook]

Lol. Seriously? That video was Danny breaking the record on once again a catch and shoot. And he can't shoot off the dribble...you're the only one saying such a thing. Those terrible attempts at floaters doesn't count. I'm talking shooting lol. You know kinda like Gary Neal, Tony Parker...

I guess we can agree to disagree. I like Danny and he's a great shooter..but he's an extremely limited player.

Did you see the edit? He made three off-dribble threes in the series: one in Game 3, Game 6 and Game 7. You're the only one who thinks he can't hit a three from off the dribble. And he can also hit a two from off the dribble (pull-ups). You just have the last two games of the Finals stuck in your head. Go back and look at his Warriors series.

[coachmac87]

I don't have to. I already said he does it a couple of times in the video posted in this thread. You can search for threads about Green adding a shot off the dribble if you want. They're on here, and the most-recent one was right after Game 5.

EDIT: I was wrong about which video was posted in this thread. This is the video I meant:

Out of the 25+ 3's he made. He had 2 where he took ONE dribble. Your proving my point bro. He's a catch and shoot.

Stop making this kid out to being something he's not

[coachmac87]

If he could really truly shoot off the dribble. They'd set more picks on his man and he'd turn that corner and raise up..but he can't do it with confidence because he struggles putting the ball on the floor in general..

C'mon man. You can't say oooohh he made 3 out of 30 3's off of one dribble...see I told you so...smh GTFO! Hahahahaha

[palangi]

You didn't watch what happened when Manu was asked to shoot and not create did you?

You're thinking of a couple years ago. many was terrible in the playoffs this year. wether creating or just shooting. he had one good game in the finals and one ok game. he was absolutely terrible in the rest.

[Chinook]

If he could really truly shoot off the dribble. They'd set more picks on his man and he'd turn that corner and raise up..but he can't do it with confidence because he struggles putting the ball on the floor in general..

C'mon man. You can't say oooohh he made 3 out of 30 3's off of one dribble...see I told you so...smh GTFO! Hahahahaha

That doesn't make sense. You're saying that because they don't run more of the offense through him, he's unable to make more shots than he takes? What about Leonard in the post? He's also very good at scoring from there, but Pop almost never called plays for it. Green's supposed to hit spot-up threes, just like Leonard. Kawhi is better at driving when he doesn't get a good shot, and Green is better at getting open, so he didn't have to drive as much. In general Green has hit off the dribble pretty reliably. But if Danny just walked down the court and jacked up a three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, Pop would pull him out.

You're suffering from confirmation bias. Green can shoot off the dribble, but because you don't believe he can, you forget the times he does. In actuality, Green shot an above-average percentage from two last season. But I bet you wouldn't have guessed that.

[coachmac87]

That doesn't make sense. You're saying that because they don't run more of the offense through him, he's unable to make more shots than he takes? What about Leonard in the post? He's also very good at scoring from there, but Pop almost never called plays for it. Green's supposed to hit spot-up threes, just like Leonard. Kawhi is better at driving when he doesn't get a good shot, but Green has hit off the dribble pretty reliably. But if Danny just walked down the court and jacked up a three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, Pop would pull him out.


You're suffering from confirmation bias. Green can shoot off the dribble, but because you don't believe he can, you forget the times he does. In actuality, Green shot an above-average percentage from two last season. But I bet you wouldn't have guessed that.

Should I honestly start a poll to prove my point??? I think you'd be surprised by the results lol

[Chinook]

Should I honestly start a poll to prove my point??? I think you'd be surprised by the results lol

What would that prove? At best (for your side) that people with horrible confirmation bias would be more vocal than people who actually remember what happened. Green shot 48 percent from two last season. The average shooting-guard shot 46.9 percent, while the average small-forward shot 47.2 percent. So according to the numbers, Green was better inside the arch than most wings were, but I bet if I didn't tell you think, you'd've sworn up and down and laughed condescendingly at me for saying he can score inside the arch.

So start the poll if you want. It's not going to change the fact that you're suffering from confirmation bias. It's not your fault--it's not that you don't want to admit you're wrong; it's that you subconsciously blanked out so much that you honestly don't KNOW you're wrong.

[ElNono]

He and his people would probably feel insulted with that number.

I don't even think it's that. I don't think the FO will lowball him like that *IF* they really think he's still valuable to this team and want him back. The only scenario where I see the Spurs offering him the vet min, is where the Spurs don't really want him back, but as a gesture to his desire to keep playing and retire as a Spur, they tend that offer. As DPG said, if the Spurs do want him back and he resigns for anything under $5m/season, you have to commend the guy for giving the team a discount.

[apalisoc_9]

I wouldnt trade danny green for 2 tyrke evens.

OP

Danny is one of the better defenders in the league and one of the best three pointers in the league. He's doing his role perfectly.

[apalisoc_9]

That doesn't make sense. You're saying that because they don't run more of the offense through him, he's unable to make more shots than he takes? What about Leonard in the post? He's also very good at scoring from there, but Pop almost never called plays for it. Green's supposed to hit spot-up threes, just like Leonard. Kawhi is better at driving when he doesn't get a good shot, and Green is better at getting open, so he didn't have to drive as much. In general Green has hit off the dribble pretty reliably. But if Danny just walked down the court and jacked up a three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, Pop would pull him out.

You're suffering from confirmation bias. Green can shoot off the dribble, but because you don't believe he can, you forget the times he does. In actuality, Green shot an above-average percentage from two last season. But I bet you wouldn't have guessed that.

You two probably have a bit of a misunderstanding with " Danny can/can't shoot of the dribble". You'd be surprised but a lot of people seem to think shooting of the dribble would mean a lot of dirbbling after a pick or screen or attacking the basket then making a move to find a shot. Obviously Danny can't do those.

[Chinook]

I wouldnt trade danny green for 2 tyrke evens.

OP

Danny is one of the better defenders in the league and one of the best three pointers in the league. He's doing his role perfectly.

So I see that CoG and CoL are going to get along better than CoP and CoM did.

[coachmac87]

What would that prove? At best (for your side) that people with horrible confirmation bias would be more vocal than people who actually remember what happened. Green shot 48 percent from two last season. The average shooting-guard shot 46.9 percent, while the average small-forward shot 47.2 percent. So according to the numbers, Green has better inside the arch than most wings were, but I bet if I didn't tell you think, you'd've sworn up and down and laughed condescendingly at me for saying he can score inside the arch.


So start the poll if you want. It's not going to change the fact that you're suffering from confirmation bias. It's not your fault--it's not that you don't want to admit you're wrong; it's that you subconsciously blanked out so much that you honestly don't KNOW you're wrong.

How am I wrong?

Green shot 48% on 2's buy on how many attempts?? And since your going off of fg% I guess your saying he's a better 2pt shooter then 3? Lol

This argument is over. Go Spurs Go

[Chinook]

You two probably have a bit of a misunderstanding with " Danny can/can't shoot of the dribble". You'd be surprised but a lot of people seem to think shooting of the dribble would mean a lot of dirbbling after a pick or screen or attacking the basket then making a move to find a shot. Obviously Danny can't do those.

Or at least shouldn't do it. Pop would kill him if he held the ball for more than five seconds. I think we can all agree that a Green step-back may be the least-desirable shot for the whole roster. It would be awesome if he changes that, though. But I'll settle for just being able to have confidence at a Green floater won't clank off the rim every time he shoots it.

[Chinook]

How am I wrong?

Green shot 48% on 2's buy on how many attempts?? And since your going off of fg% I guess your saying he's a better 2pt shooter then 3? Lol

This argument is over. Go Spurs Go

It's not an argument. It's literally one guy showing evidence and another acting like a child laughing and saying "I know what I see, lol." It's embarrassing for me to have even wasted this much time talking about it. When push comes to shove, you should stick to game threads or something. Maybe that way, you won't forget what's happened by the time you give your opinion.

[apalisoc_9]

Or at least shouldn't do it. Pop would kill him if he held the ball for more than five seconds. I think we can all agree that a Green step-back may be the least-desirable shot for the whole roster. It would be awesome if he changes that, though. But I'll settle for just being able to have confidence at a Green floater won't clank off the rim every time he shoots it.

Disagree with the floater. Green is a terrible dribbler, a floater needs a good bounce or two to get a perfect float.

He needs to learn how to dribble and shoot an 18 footer. He probably already has the skills to do it, but decides to move back or pass the ball even after a fake.

[HI-FI]

I don't even think it's that. I don't think the FO will lowball him like that *IF* they really think he's still valuable to this team and want him back. The only scenario where I see the Spurs offering him the vet min, is where the Spurs don't really want him back, but as a gesture to his desire to keep playing and retire as a Spur, they tend that offer. As DPG said, if the Spurs do want him back and he resigns for anything under $5m/season, you have to commend the guy for giving the team a discount.

I would commend him for that amount. I have a soft spot for Manu, even if there are some things that piss me off. As I've said all along, if his heart is still into it and he wants another shot to redeem himself, then I want him back. Nothing will ever make that game 6 go away, but perhaps he can still contribute in a very meaningful way without taking money from a more reliable option. $5 million or less would be really good imo.

[Chinook]

Disagree with the floater. Green is a terrible dribbler, a floater needs a good bounce or two to get a perfect float.

He needs to learn how to dribble and shoot an 18 footer. He probably already has the skills to do it, but decides to move back or pass the ball even after a fake.

He's actually not bad from mid-range. During the regular season, the team actually would run a version of the loop where Green would get a 17-footer off a couple of screens. They tried it once against Miami, and it failed. In general, Green was actually good at shooting a pull-up mid-range shot after being run off the three-point line. He was just all out of sync against Miami.

I think all of the elements of a good inside game are already there with Green. It's all about becoming more consistent. He managed to do what with threes this past season. If he can do that with twos it would be great.

Totally agree about dribbling, though. That's really holding him back. He seems to have regressed there, as he was better at doing that his first year with the Spurs.

[apalisoc_9]

How am I wrong?

Green shot 48% on 2's buy on how many attempts?? And since your going off of fg% I guess your saying he's a better 2pt shooter then 3? Lol

This argument is over. Go Spurs Go

Actually Green needs to learn how dribble and maybe shoot an 18 footer. Good defenders can gather themsevels again and contest a three again after a fake..You don't want game 6 and 7 to happen again. I can assure you if danny had some sort of confidence with his dribble and shoot inside, Miami would not have dared him.

[apalisoc_9]

He's actually not bad from mid-range. During the regular season, the team actually would run a version of the loop where Green would get a 17-footer off a couple of screens. They tried it once against Miami, and it failed. In general, Green was actually good at shooting a pull-up mid-range shot after being run off the three-point line. He was just all out of sync against Miami.

I think all of the elements of a good inside game are already there with Green. It's all about becoming more consistent. He managed to do what with threes this past season. If he can do that with twos it would be great.

Totally agree about dribbling, though. That's really holding him back. He seems to have regressed there, as he was better at doing that his first year with the Spurs.

yeah I noticed that. It just that he donest do it on a consistent basis for me to believe that he can do it against a great defensive team that can help as fast as Miami..

I've seen him do it for sure, but more often, he passes or just moves to shoot another three. You can't do that against defenders that can gather themselves quickly even after a fake.

[Chinook]

yeah I noticed that. It just that he donest do it on a consistent basis for me to believe that he can do it against a great defensive team that can help as fast as Miami..

I've seen him do it for sure, but more often, he passes or just moves to shoot another three. You can't do that against defenders that can gather themselves quickly even after a fake.

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Danny+Green

I don't know if this is what you were looking at, but I found it pretty interesting. He was average in mid-range shots, but below average from close (including 31 percent from 3-9 feet). He needs to find a way to finish, and from the stats, he needs to either abandon the floater, or work tirelessly at it. Right now, he may as well just throw the ball out of bounds.

It's clear what he needs to work on this summer. I think that he deserves the opportunity to improve his game before people want to say he's reached his ceiling.

[therealtruth]

yeah I noticed that. It just that he donest do it on a consistent basis for me to believe that he can do it against a great defensive team that can help as fast as Miami..

I've seen him do it for sure, but more often, he passes or just moves to shoot another three. You can't do that against defenders that can gather themselves quickly even after a fake.

That's the one thing that frustrates me during the season. The Spurs don't prepare enough measures for how to generate offense when they face a good defensive team. The only way to really counter that is for every guy to be a threat to pass/score of the dribble.

[coachmac87]

It's not an argument. It's literally one guy showing evidence and another acting like a child laughing and saying "I know what I see, lol." It's embarrassing for me to have even wasted this much time talking about it. When push comes to shove, you should stick to game threads or something. Maybe that way, you won't forget what's happened by the time you give your opinion.

Look you're the one posting videos and "stats" trying to help your case. And it hasn't....and then you come up with crap saying pop doesn't him dribbling around?? Danny doesn't want to dribble because he can't. He took 1 dribble on 3 shots out of 25+. How many 2's did Danny take this year? Stop trying to convince yourself.

Why can't you admit he's just a great catch and shoot player??

[Chinook]

Look you're the one posting videos and "stats" trying to help your case. And it hasn't....and then you come up with crap saying pop doesn't him dribbling around?? Danny doesn't want to dribble because he can't. He took 1 dribble on 3 shots out of 25+. How many 2's did Danny take this year? Stop trying to convince yourself.

Why can't you admit he's just a great catch and shoot player??

He took 240 two-pointers. The average player took 269. In case you don't realize it, that means he took enough to be within the confidence interval. So his percentage is not inflated.

No one said Green was a good dribbler. That's different than him being able to shoot off the dribble. He can do that when he doesn't dribble into traffic. For example, his long-twos were only half-assisted (which is below league average). By definition, he had to shoot those off the dribble.

Again, you just seem to have a view of Green that numbers can't change. Green has his limits offensively, but a big reason why he doesn't push them is because he plays next to a ball-dominating guard. If Green dribbles the ball around for 10 seconds and then jacks up a three, Pop would get mad at him. He benched Green a couple of times this past season for doing that exact thing. If Green didn't make bad decisions with the ball when he put it on the floor for an extended period of time, Pop probably would give him more slack, but the offense would be hurt if he took the ball away from Parker as much as he'd need to to make you feel comfortable about his ability to get his own shot.