ESPN Stein: Spurs have AK47 in their sights

[Seventyniner]

The Wolves have agreed to a 4-year contract with Kevin Martin for $28M, perhaps up to $30M with incentives. According to the twitter feeds on hoopshype, they would have to renounce Kirilenko to do so. This removes a potential suitor, but also makes a sign-and-trade to the Spurs impossible unless it involves the Thunder too (Martin signed-and-traded to the Wolves, Kirilenko signed-and-traded to the Spurs, the Thunder get a trade exception and maybe a pick).

Edit: link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/MikePradaSBN/sta...13707981471744

Edit 2: another tweet: https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/st...50313496985600

Edit 3: someone please teach me how to embed tweets.

[bklynspursfan]

The Wolves have agreed to a 4-year contract with Kevin Martin for $28M, perhaps up to $30M with incentives. According to the twitter feeds on hoopshype, they would have to renounce Kirilenko to do so. This removes a potential suitor, but also makes a sign-and-trade to the Spurs impossible unless it involves the Thunder too (Martin signed-and-traded to the Wolves, Kirilenko signed-and-traded to the Spurs, the Thunder get a trade exception and maybe a pick).

Edit: link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/MikePradaSBN/sta...13707981471744

Edit 2: another tweet: https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/st...50313496985600

Edit 3: someone please teach me how to embed tweets.

Use ["tweet"] ["/tweet"] (minus the quotes) In between there, use the number at the end of the tweet from the URL. In the first case, it'd be 352213707981471744

[Chinook]

The Wolves literally do not have the money to sign all of these players without sign-and-trading for Martin. I could spreadsheet this out, but I'll just do a rough version here:

The Wolves entered the off-season with literally no cap space ($100k over).

They got $15.5 Million with Roy and Kirilenko moving on. Then they can get $5.8 Million more by releasing Stiemsma, Cunningham and Gelebale.

So total, they're $21.2 Million under the cap.

Then you account for Pekovic's hold, which is $8.82 Million. Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million. Then you add in Martin's $6.29 Million. That all makes for $20.7 Million.

So now you probably think that they've managed to get all the deals done, right?

Nope. They have $2.8 Million in rookie-scale holds. So they're over by more than two million bucks. Merely renouncing Kirilenko won't help them.

[Em-City]

The Wolves literally do not have the money to sign all of these players without sign-and-trading for Martin. I could spreadsheet this out, but I'll just do a rough version here:

The Wolves entered the off-season with literally no cap space ($100k over).

They got $15.5 Million with Roy and Kirilenko moving on. Then they can get $5.8 Million more by releasing Stiemsma, Cunningham and Gelebale.

So total, they're $21.2 Million under the cap.

Then you account for Pekovic's hold, which is $8.82 Million. Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million. Then you add in Martin's $6.29 Million. That all makes for $20.7 Million.

So now you probably think that they've managed to get all the deals done, right?

Nope. They have $2.8 Million in rookie-scale holds. So they're over by more than two million bucks. Merely renouncing Kirilenko won't help them.

to know. . Thanks

[spurraider21]

so what sign and trade scenario do you think would alleviate this problem?

[Chinook]

so what sign and trade scenario do you think would alleviate this problem?

The Wolves are over the cap, so they can use Kirilenko's Non-Bird Rights (which they maintain even if they renounce him [which is why I said his hold doesn't matter]) to trade him to the Spurs for pretty much nothing in return (just a second or something). Then they'd sign-and-trade for Martin, absorbing him into the AK TE.

They could also try to move Derrick Williams or Luke Rindour for nothing or very little in return, but that's obviously harder to do.

[spurraider21]

The Wolves are over the cap, so they can use Kirilenko's Non-Bird Rights (which they maintain even if they renounce him [which is why I said his hold doesn't matter]) to trade him to the Spurs for pretty much nothing in return (just a second or something). Then they'd sign-and-trade for Martin, absorbing him into the AK TE.

They could also try to move Derrick Williams or Luke Rindour for nothing or very little in return, but that's obviously harder to do.

Cool. And would the spurs acquiring Kirilenko via sign and trade be a benefit to us in any way?

[CGD]

^ Interesting. Plus they already used the amnesty on Darko a summer or two back.

theyve been shopping ridnour and Barrera. maybe they have a trade for Ridnour's 4.3 expiring which may net them the needed space space? Something like Ridnour + pick for Robin Lopez's partial?

[jyra]

Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million.

I think you are overlooking that the Wolves can sign Budinger using Bird Rights. So only his cap hold of 884k should be counted when calculating their usable cap space.

[Chinook]

Cool. And would the spurs acquiring Kirilenko via sign and trade be a benefit to us in any way?

Yes, in a couple. First, it removes roster charges from the equation, which means the team could give Kirilenko about $500k more than they could if they signed him outright. They also could moving a small contract like De Colo or Mills as part of the trade and gain some room.

Second, doing a large S&T that includes moving Bonner and Mills/De Colo/Neal to another team could result in the team being able to get AK without having to worry about him and Ginobili fitting under the cap. They'd also have the full MLE left after such a trade.

[spurraider21]

Yes, in a couple. First, it removes roster charges from the equation, which means the team could give Kirilenko about $500k more than they could if they signed him outright. They also could moving a small contract like De Colo or Mills as part of the trade and gain some room.

Second, doing a large S&T that includes moving Bonner and Mills/De Colo/Neal to another team could result in the team being able to get AK without having to worry about him and Ginobili fitting under the cap. They'd also have the full MLE left after such a trade.

Great stuff. It's good to have guys with awesome cap knowledge on the forum

and apparently, based on minnesota's cap situation, the K-mart acquisition looks like it had to be a sign and trade anyway, so its possible this is already in the works

[Chinook]

I think you are overlooking that the Wolves can sign Budinger using Bird Rights. So only his cap hold of 884k should be counted when calculating their usable cap space.

True enough, and thanks for pointing that out. But they also picked up Cunningham's option and don't intend to release Gelebale. So that keeps them over.

[Chinook]

The Wolves literally do not have the money to sign all of these players without sign-and-trading for Martin. I could spreadsheet this out, but I'll just do a rough version here:

The Wolves entered the off-season with literally no cap space ($100k over).

They got $15.5 Million with Roy and Kirilenko moving on. Then they can get $5.8 Million more by releasing Stiemsma, Cunningham and Gelabale.

So total, they're $21.2 Million under the cap.

Then you account for Pekovic's hold, which is $8.82 Million. Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million. Then you add in Martin's $6.29 Million. That all makes for $20.7 Million.

So now you probably think that they've managed to get all the deals done, right?

Nope. They have $2.8 Million in rookie-scale holds. So they're over by more than two million bucks. Merely renouncing Kirilenko won't help them.

EDIT: jyra has pointed out that Budinger has a cap hold of only $884k. That drops Minnesota to about $2 Million under the cap. However, they have already exercised Cunningham's $2.2 Million option. They also seem to be keeping Gelabale. That puts them back to about a million over.

[DesignatedT]

EDIT: jyra has pointed out that Budinger has a cap hold of only $884k. That drops Minnesota to about $2 Million under the cap. However, they have already exercised Cunningham's $2.2 Million option. They also seem to be keeping Gelabale. That puts them back to about a million over.

Thanks for the breakdown.

[MR-Clutch]

He could compete for sixth man of the year.

[cd021]

Yes, in a couple. First, it removes roster charges from the equation, which means the team could give Kirilenko about $500k more than they could if they signed him outright. They also could moving a small contract like De Colo or Mills as part of the trade and gain some room.

Second, doing a large S&T that includes moving Bonner and Mills/De Colo/Neal to another team could result in the team being able to get AK without having to worry about him and Ginobili fitting under the cap. They'd also have the full MLE left after such a trade.

You need your own thread, where you can everyone's cap questions about the Spurs and their compe ors . You clearly understand this stuff better than most. Great stuff.

[Baam]

Green has to come off the bench.

Tp Ky Ak Tiago Tim

With Green as 6th man.

[TheGoldStandard]

Green has to come off the bench.

Tp Ky Ak Tiago Tim

With Green as 6th man.

So that means Manu will be the one initiating the offense on the 2nd unit and driving to the rim in order to free up Green? He's not coming off screens or anything like that, he's a spot up shooter.

[Baam]

So that means Manu will be the one initiating the offense on the 2nd unit and driving to the rim in order to free up Green? He's not coming off screens or anything like that, he's a spot up shooter.

Ky is the third option next year and should play more with the bench.

[TheGoldStandard]

Ky is the third option next year and should play more with the bench.

Still need a PG unless you're gonna have Manu run point.

[Chinook]

Leonard's not a two-guard. I don't know why people don't understand this. He plays his best when he's allowed to be a combo-forward. Why would anyone change that?

And Kirilenko can come off the bench just fine. Ginobili came off the bench while making $14 Million.

[Chinook]

People talk about Kirilenko being overpaid when he was with the Jazz. That could be true, but damn, Prime AK was something to behold.

[Sean Cagney]

Leonard's not a two-guard. I don't know why people don't understand this. He plays his best when he's allowed to be a combo-forward. Why would anyone change that?

And Kirilenko can come off the bench just fine. Ginobili came off the bench while making $14 Million.

He can, but will he though?

[Baam]

Leonard's not a two-guard. I don't know why people don't understand this. He plays his best when he's allowed to be a combo-forward. Why would anyone change that?

And Kirilenko can come off the bench just fine. Ginobili came off the bench while making $14 Million.

His D is at its best on 2 guards as proven in the POs and he can post them easily.

[Chinook]

His D is at its best on 2 guards as proven in the POs and he can post them easily.

His defense is at it's best against players his size of a little taller. He doesn't do well against smaller guards. And he can't be posting people up as a two, especially with Kirilenko is going to be the other wing. There's no one to space the floor, and the paint is just a huddled mess.

He has the game of a forward. Let him stay there.