Manu on the Spurs future

[apalisoc_9]

Manu has been a real piece of work from the finals on tbh..He really seems to not care all that much and if this his evaluation (which would explain him taking about as much money as you could expect) then how I feel about him is more than justified.

Let's hope his choking a** will be able to handle more than 20MPG, play a full season and actually produce for his money.

One subtle thing to look for, which I will preface is strictly speculation on my part, is the trust issue. For the first time ever, there is a risk of TP/TD/Pop not trusting Manu. I think they always did and really could live with him, but deep down they know what cost them the finals. After seeing that and how gutted Duncan was, I don't know if they will ever quite see Manu the same way. Especially if they here he honestly believes he played so-so.

I'm not saying they won't pass him the ball or even talk bad about him, but the thing that has always been there and allowed this team to win is that trust between Pop/TD/TP/Manu. Will be interesting to see if Pop starts yanking him out of most key moments, not going to him and if the Big 2 don't really see him as a big 3 member any more.

You're a very good poster DPG..

But this is utter Bull...

Still not over game 6?

[DPG21920]

He said he played so-so. Not me. He played awful and was the single biggest reason the Spurs aren't champions. He took about as much money as you could expect this off season and gave no discount at all when both TP/TD who have out produced him by far gave discounts to better the team.

I fail to see how that is bs.

If you are speaking about my trust point, ok, I can see how you feel that is bs because that is not substantiated at all. But you see this in sports all the time and it will be interesting to see if this finals broke that bond even a little. Hopefully not and I don't think it's even likely. But I would not be shocked if you see some aspects of that over the course of the season.

[Taking it to the Hole]

My biggest issue with how Ginobili has behaved after the playoffs is that he seemed somewhat fine with how he played. It's like a good game 5 against Miami was enough to please him.

I don't know if he was happy at all with how he played. Even during the Finals, he was saying he was unhappy with his performance. I think the impetus was for him to have a good game eventually because the media, the fans, and the team was expecting him to do so but I think that one game was just a response to all that. I don't think what we saw from Manu this year in the Finals is what we can come to expect in the future. Manu wasn't completely horrible the whole playoffs, just he did not match up well against Miami. I think going into next year, he knows he has a lot to prove to himself as well as the fans so I expect him to come back more aggressive and focused.

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu has been a real piece of work from the finals on tbh..He really seems to not care all that much and if this his evaluation (which would explain him taking about as much money as you could expect) then how I feel about him is more than justified.


One subtle thing to look for, which I will preface is strictly speculation on my part, is the trust issue. For the first time ever, there is a risk of TP/TD/Pop not trusting Manu. I think they always did and really could live with him, but deep down they know what cost them the finals. After seeing that and how gutted Duncan was, I don't know if they will ever quite see Manu the same way. Especially if they hear he honestly believes he played so-so.

I'm not saying they won't pass him the ball or even talk bad about him, but the thing that has always been there and allowed this team to win is that trust between Pop/TD/TP/Manu. Will be interesting to see if Pop starts yanking him out of most key moments, not going to him and if the Big 2 don't really see him as a big 3 member any more.

The dynamic did change but they're professionals and they have a lot of poise so they didn't let it show. The thing is Manu doesn't hold allegiances to Tim or Tony or Pop, he does what's best for Manu. Tony owes his success to Tim and Pop allowing him to develop and having someone who would mentor him and take them under there wing to win. Manu's won without them he's been successful as the star of his teams. I think if there is ever a crack that will be shown it'll be through Tony, he'll make a comment or say something he's the most emotional out of all of them.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Then Pop shouldn't have given Manu those minutes. He is as much to blame. Yanking Duncan at the end of Game 6 is one of the biggest ups in Finals history.

Lots of blame to go around.

[houston spurs fan]

Does Manu have the "Yao Ming" factor in Latin America? I know everyone is ripping him for being overpaid but does he make it up with the extra revenue generated?

[Chinook]

This was what he wrote in Spanish:

"Durante la final yo me sentí más o menos, sobre todo en los partidos en que el equipo más me necesitaba, el 2, el 4 y el 6, que fueron los peores en mi caso. Eso me dolió."

If anybody has a better translation, chime in...

The translation seems good. But maybe it's a matter of framing. Does Ginobili usually come out and say he was bad when the moment calls for it? If he's the type of person who thinks he play ranges from okay to great, then maybe him saying he was "so-so" should be calibrated to mean he thinks he was bad. Regardless, it seems he realizes he let the team down and that that wasn't okay for him to do. So I don't know why so many people are acting like he's saying he felt like he played well enough or something.

[DPG21920]

The translation seems good. But maybe it's a matter of framing. Does Ginobili usually come out and say he was bad when the moment calls for it? If he's the type of person who thinks he play ranges from okay to great, then maybe him saying he was "so-so" should be calibrated to mean he thinks he was bad. Regardless, it seems he realizes he let the team down and that that wasn't okay for him to do. So I don't know why so many people are acting like he's saying he felt like he played well enough or something.

Is that why he gave a discount like TP/TD did to improve the team to make up for it?

[Bruno]

I think going into next year, he knows he has a lot to prove to himself as well as the fans so I expect him to come back more aggressive and focused.

Well next season, he will be one year older, and the logical expectation would be that he won't be as good as this year.

[TheGoldStandard]

Is that why he gave a discount like TP/TD did to improve the team to make up for it?

It would have been fitting if he said, "This was on me, I played poorly and next season and the season after that is not about me, it's about getting Tim a championship that's why I only took 3 Million a season in order to allow the spurs to get the pieces they need"

[Chinook]

Is that why he gave a discount like TP/TD did to improve the team to make up for it?

Make up for it how? It seems like the team got the players it wanted to, seeing how quickly they closed on them. I don't see any issue with Ginobili's deal, especially without knowing how the negotiations went.

[DPG21920]

Make up for it how? It seems like the team got the players it wanted to, seeing how quickly they closed on them. I don't see any issue with Ginobili's deal, especially without knowing how the negotiations went.

Yeesh. Nothing strikes you as odd that the only player of the big 3 not taking a market discount to help the Spurs is the one who let them down the most and is playing the worst?

And while it may be true, I highly doubt the Spurs plan was to spend most of their FA money on lower level bench players, some of whom appear to be redundant/unnecessary.

[Chinook]

It would have been fitting if he said, "This was on me, I played poorly and next season and the season after that is not about me, it's about getting Tim a championship that's why I only took 3 Million a season in order to allow the spurs to get the pieces they need"

Tim has his chance at another championship; he missed it, twice. I doubt very much that he's pointing the finger at Ginobili for the loss the way some fans are.

[Chinook]

Yeesh. Nothing strikes you as odd that the only player of the big 3 not taking a market discount to help the Spurs is the one who let them down the most and is playing the worst?

We don't know what Ginobili's market value was. We say it's about $7 Million a season, but for all we know, Ginobili and the Spurs thought it was higher and worked their way down to the contract he got.

[DPG21920]

We don't know what Ginobili's market value was. We say it's about $7 Million a season, but for all we know, Ginobili and the Spurs thought it was higher and worked their way down to the contract he got.

Well, using logic based on age/production/what Manu or the Spurs have said, what is most likely to you?

[TheGoldStandard]

Tim has his chance at another championship; he missed it, twice. I doubt very much that he's pointing the finger at Ginobili for the loss the way some fans are.

Tim is not that kind of person, I'm sure he blames it on him even though he played 40+ minutes of Game 6 and had 30/17 and 24/12 in game 7.

[DPG21920]

Tim has his chance at another championship; he missed it, twice. I doubt very much that he's pointing the finger at Ginobili for the loss the way some fans are.

That makes sense, because it does not appear Manu is pointing the finger at himself either. He played so-so.

[Chinook]

Well, using logic based on age/production/what Manu or the Spurs have said, what is most likely to you?

Well since we're speaking about market value, the fact that Ginobili is so marketable actually should raise his value even if the stats don't suggest it should. I do think Manu could have gotten a little more, especially since it seems the negotiations were pretty easy. My guess is that the everything happened as quickly as it did because the team didn't really care about how big his deal was, and Ginobili wasn't about to leave the team after he cost them the le. Had he been out on the open market, he probably could have gotten a bigger deal from a team like Cleveland, who could sorely need a veteran with championship experience. A $17-20M/2 deal would not have shocked me, even though I wouldn't have thought he was worth it.

[Chinook]

Tim is not that kind of person, I'm sure he blames it on him even though he played 40+ minutes of Game 6 and had 30/17 and 24/12 in game 7.

He's a person who realizes that if he has the ball with a chance to tie at the end of the game, then his supporting cast has done all he could have expected of them.

[Chinook]

That makes sense, because it does not appear Manu is pointing the finger at himself either. He played so-so.

What part of 'I was okay when the team needed me most. It hurt me,' makes you think he's not pointing the finger at himself?

[Mel_13]

Well, using logic based on age/production/what Manu or the Spurs have said, what is most likely to you?

Manu and the Spurs both know his economic value to the team. It would be naive in the extreme to assume that his economic value to the franchise is not factored into his compensation.

[Bruno]

I've always said that I didn't really have an issue with Manu being more liked than Tony because his personality was way more likable but I have been quite disappointed by how he has acted lately.
His post-finals comments and the fact that he milked Spurs to get a better contract, which likely hurt their chance at improving the team, makes me think that he has lost the fiery compe or part of his personality which I really liked.

[DPG21920]

What part of 'I was okay when the team needed me most. It hurt me,' makes you think he's not pointing the finger at himself?

the part where you know, he was not ok. Where he was awful. The part where TP and TD taking much less than market value (to where there is no debate like there is with Manu) to help the team.

[DPG21920]

Manu and the Spurs both know his economic value to the team. It would be naive in the extreme to assume that his economic value to the franchise is not factored into his compensation.

Sure, I agree. That's why some of us are saying Manu had the Spurs in a bind and made them pay for it. Unlike TP/TD.

[Chinook]

I've always said that I didn't really have an issue with Manu being more liked than Tony because his personality was way more likable but I have been quite disappointed by how he has acted lately.
His post-finals comments and the fact that he milked Spurs to get a better contract, which likely hurt their chance at improving the team, makes me think that he has lost the fiery compe or part of his personality which I really liked.

Didn't some grey just get flamed for suggesting that last week?