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So you would rather have a player that's going to choke in the playoffs year after year than have a player that contributed and helped his team win a championship?And no I don't think I'm smarter than the spurs F.O you dope.
I could see 2 guards on the inactive list, but that would still leave one too many unless the idea is to run 3 guard lineups in lieu of having a backup 3. This glut of guards points to at least one upcoming transaction.
So you would rather have a player that's going to choke in the playoffs year after year than have a player that contributed and helped his team win a championship?
Yeah after hearing that explanation it makes me think you only saw two Orlando games last season - the two vs. the Spurs. Guessing you never saw any Denver or Orlando games of his either. He's better off the dribble than Danny. Danny is a shooter whereas Afflalo is a scorer. They're actually quite different. He's definitely a two way player, there's no question he is a good defender. His contract is reasonable, maybe slightly overpaid but not drastically. When you say he's not worth it, all you'd be losing is Bonner and pick 25. Basically nothing. He's a guy that is much better on a good team than a young tanking team.
He's also an expiring contract. Though that doesn't mean much in the Spurs scheme.
Aside from Ariza's 2009 run what has he done for a ring? I recall he tailed off after that, and I like him.So you would rather have a player that's going to choke in the playoffs year after year than have a player that contributed and helped his team win a championship?
No Chinook, in hindsight, it was a decent contract. He was given his contract based on his production with LAL. Maybe it was presumptuous for Houston to think he could maintain that level of play, but that was then and this is now. A 7 million dollar expiring is NOT a bad contract and certainly one many contenders could easily absorb through a trade closer to the deadline. In any event, any player who can defend multiple positions, still in his early prime is much more of an asset than a Blair/Bonner combo. Blair is a ticking time bomb and Bonner's ability to stretch the floor is grossly overstated. Washington's inside-out game pales in comparison to the Spurs. Bonner wouldn't get nearly the open looks that he does here and he doesn't really bring anything else to the table. The Spurs have attempted to trade Bonner before but to no avail. And if you read the OP, you would have realized that the Wizards are after Blair, not Bonner or any other garbage player San Antonio has no use for. You should really pay closer attention to my posts. I never said the Wizards would get a truck load of talent in return for Ariza, but they can certainly do better than a short term fix at PF in Blair and a throwaway garbage center in Bonner.
Yeah, Ariza definitely has his own question marks. If the Spurs were looking for a starter he would not be immediately appealing.
But they're bringing back last year's defensively dominant starting 5.
His contract is not reasonable. He'd be the fourth-highest paid player on the team, and he'd barely be in the rotation. I've seen Afflalo for years, and no matter how "good" he is, he still puts up the same numbers as Green, and his all the sudden lack of shooting means he probably wouldn't get Green's starting gig or Ginobili's bench role, or Belinelli's instant-offense role. He's plain not worth the pick and the contract for a team that already has two good young defensive wings. Add in Afflalo's lack of height and Neal's re-signing, and there's no way that's a good trade. Orlando purposefully picked a two-guard when he was the centerpiece of the Howard deal (as we knew then).
Last edited by Chinook; 07-14-2013 at 12:35 AM.
True and with the way the NBA is going playing various versions of small ball will help create good matchups.
Having a bad contract now doesn't mean that it was always a bad contract. He is overpaid, because he's not as productive as it looked like he was going to be. If he were as good as everyone thought he'd become, then he'd have a fair deal. But the Rockets paid for potential, and it didn't pan out. Happens with most bad contracts. The fact that you fail to understand how trade value works explains our impasse pretty succinctly.
How many contenders really have $7 Million in expiring deals lying around that need a small-forward? Not many. Maybe Memphis, but with Prince's deal, it's not certain they have anything better than the Spurs have. And you should remember your own posts correctly. You said the Spurs getting him was a pipe-dream because they didn't have the assets for him. They have the first-round pick that's going to be the best possible offer Washington gets unless a team has to pay them to absorb some longer-term salary. You're right (now) that they won't get a truckload of talent for Ariza; they won't even get a sedan-load. Again, he was traded twice on this current contract: first for a near-bust (who became a full-time bust later that year) in Courtney Lee and the second as salary relief and a second-round pick. He hasn't ever been a highly coveted trade asset. I doubt that's going to change since he's had four straight years of below-average production.
And I read the OP where it said the Wizards want Blair and would like to shed salary or at least not have to pay much more, and I read the later articles that said they're looking for a stretch-four. It seems then that they would be interested in Bonner, whom (much to my chagrin) the Spurs have not officially tried to trade. The closest they've come is speculation that he was part of the Kirilenko attempted trade. But we don't know if they tried to trade another group of players for even Diaw. More importantly, Bonner's an expiring contract, which is worth as much as Ariza is if they let either one go to free agency.
You don't like Blair, and I don't either. But the Wizards do. And if they can get him and a player who plays a position of need and who's on an expiring deal for a player on an inflated salary who doesn't project to be in the rotation, it's a good deal, your views of Ariza's "value" notwithstanding.
y'all are crazy if you think they'll give up Ariza.
Wiz interested in Blair, also looking for a 4 who's a perimeter threat....there's a deal here somewhere.
Of course, Ariza's contract makes for a nice big expiring one to use at the trade deadline. Not sure the Wizards would give that up for Blair/Bonner.
Ariza is still a good defender of 3s and 2s. A perfect role playing swingman, who can shoot the 3, if he doesn't fall too much in love with that shot. The thing is he was being miscast as a starter-star kind of player in Houston and New Orleans. I think he finally got his niche as a role player who is very good at defense and takes his shots when given on offense, in the second half of last Wizards season.
I thought the best time to pry him was in the February deadline when he could have been got by trading SJax. The Wizards were flopping big time and it was a good time to snag Ariza for an expiring. The Spurs FO demurred then. They shouldn't let go of a chance now.
I suspect though that since Blair is already a free agent, the Wiz aren't looking to trade for him with assets and are rather trying to dump their own extras in Vesely, Singleton & Booker on the Spurs. And that explains Woj's tweet.
I don't want part of those three. The first is a big time flop who has regressed to become a huge bust in the NBA, the second is useless and the third is Blair-lite.
Either Ariza or Blair walks. And there is no issue with Bonner being traded as part of the S&T. He is surplus to the Spurs' requirements and fits the Wizards' needs.
Besides in Beal, Porter, Webster, the Wizards already have a decent swing/guard rotation. Ariza can be expendable.
Problem is, they need a S&T as they are close to the lux tax threshold.
Well, that's the opportunity.
So many things wrong in one paragraph but I'll try get to it all...
'He'd be barely in the rotation'
- No, he would be playing backup SF minutes and a few minutes at SG. He would easily find nearly 20mins a game on this team. He deserves it too.
'Gary Neal re-signing'
- Yet to occur, my idea was based on the current roster. Neal is a free agent.
'Sudden lack of shooting'
- Expected when you're a the best player on a terrible team. Defences focus on you, you draw other teams best defenders etc.
'Same numbers as Green'
- Watch the games, not the box scores. As I said above, Defences focused on Afflalo whereas Green only shoots when WIDE open. Look at Afflalo's %'s when in Denver with a decent/similar core. 49.8% in 10/11 season. 47.1% in 11/12. Both season at 40% from 3.
'Lack of height'
- Yahoo has Afflalo billed as 6'5 and Kawhi as 6'6. You can argue length makes a difference, and it does, but Afflalo will have no trouble whatsoever guarding second string SG's or SF's. He would have to guard guys like Francisco Garcia, Jared Dudley, Harrison Barnes and Pondexter amongst other backup SF's in the West. He can guard all those guys with his eyes closed. Size is no issue there.
'Orlando purposefully drafted 2 SG's'
- Afflalo is going to be 28 soon, Orlando is 3-5 years away from being relevant. I don't think a 33 year old Afflalo factors into their plans no. Oladipo has been playing more PG than SG in summer league too for what it's worth.
'Contract is not reasonable'
- Name me another 15+ ppg scorer that doubles as a very very solid defender with the potential to shoot 40% from 3 that earns under $8m a season that's not currently on a rookie deal...
Isn't Seraphin the obvious target? It would be better to get him than any other Wizard IMO.
The Wizards won't give up seraphin
Green vs Afflalo last season per 36 minutes- (in advanced stats, Green easily overcomes Afflalo)
Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 1 Arron Afflalo 2012-13 27 64 64 2307 6.2 14.1 .439 1.1 3.7 .300 3.0 3.5 .857 0.5 3.3 3.7 3.2 0.6 0.2 2.2 2.1 16.5 2 Danny Green 2012-13 25 80 80 2201 4.9 10.8 .448 2.9 6.8 .429 1.1 1.3 .848 0.6 3.4 4.0 2.3 1.5 0.9 1.5 2.0 13.7
Salaries -
Afflalo - First year of $7.75 million with Orlando
Green - First year of $3.5 million with San Antonio.
Green is far more valuable than Afflalo as a comparison.
'Same numbers as Green'
- Watch the games, not the box scores. As I said above, Defences focused on Afflalo whereas Green only shoots when WIDE open. Look at Afflalo's %'s when in Denver with a decent/similar core. 49.8% in 10/11 season. 47.1% in 11/12. Both season at 40% from 3.
If you compare Afflalo at Denver couple of years ago and Green at SA this year-
Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 1 Arron Afflalo 2011-12 26 62 62 2086 5.7 12.1 .471 1.5 3.8 .398 3.4 4.3 .798 0.7 2.7 3.4 2.6 0.6 0.2 1.5 2.3 16.3 2 Danny Green 2012-13 25 80 80 2201 4.9 10.8 .448 2.9 6.8 .429 1.1 1.3 .848 0.6 3.4 4.0 2.3 1.5 0.9 1.5 2.0 13.7
Green comes off as more valuable, because his production matches that of Afflalo; his salary is less than half that of Afflalo's and his WS/48 stats are also better than Afflalo's. Even when Afflalo wasn't the primary option with Denver as Green isn't with SA.
Last edited by Spursfanfromafar; 07-14-2013 at 06:33 AM. Reason: Changed to 2011-12 to reflect salary year for Afflalo
Green is also a much better defender than Afflalo. Afflalo was a great defender until he realized that offense is what gets you paid.
Speaking of Gee, I wish we kept him. He beasted summer league a few years ago. Sucked to see him get cut since all of us who watched summer league knew he was good.
Well we'd be getting something for basically nothing (except salary) either way. Giving a guy up in S & T is basically giving up nothing to get something. Spurs weren't gonna keep him anyway, so it's just like free stuff with no strings attached except their contract(s).
Though it's funny to look at some of their stats. Their team is packed to the gills with mediocrity. Vesely, a guy some here are saying we should go for, was literally 12/39 (30.8%) from the free throw line last year. That's. . .in a way kinda hilarious tbh.
My thoughts are for the Spurs this should peak some interest. Option 1 trade Bonner and Blair for Ariza= Good, option 2 Bonner and Blair for Ariza and Vesely=even better. Spurs need a backup SF right now. Blair has not been in rotation last few seasons. So spurs should explore adding something for nothing. We are done with AK so drop that conversation.
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