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  1. #26
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    No one is saying their championships are meaningless. The discussion is simply about quality of opponents. The Spurs (like nearly every team that ever won a championship) faced their fair share of snoozer opponents. But they still went out and won, and they certainly deserve credit for that. No one is taking that credit away. Quit being so sensitive
    i think its known that the spurs played their toughest opponents in the WC playoffs. beating the 03 lakers in the 2nd round trumps pretty much any finals opponent the Heat have beaten.

    the suns and mavs of the mid 2000's who we had to go through were better than the teams we faced in the finals outside of the 05 Pistons. just looking at finals opponents is unfair. miami got to play the bucks and the bulls en route to making the finals last year...

  2. #27
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Meh, to get there the Spurs had to go through the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, prime Dirk and a solid Mavs team, and the SSOL Suns. All of those teams would've beaten the Heat except maybe the Suns.
    The year they beat Shaq/Kobe, they clearly were declining/falling apart as a tandem and team in general. A hungry Lebron/Miami could beat them.

    06 Mavs would get worked due to their extremely undersized backcourt and lack of a wing defender outside of mental-midget Josh Howard.

    SSOL Suns were a real good team, but if the run and gun Thunder trio of Durant/Westbrook/Harden got mopped, so would those Suns. Getting into a running match with Lebron/Wade? Not a good idea.

  3. #28
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    i think its known that the spurs played their toughest opponents in the WC playoffs. beating the 03 lakers in the 2nd round trumps pretty much any finals opponent the Heat have beaten
    I disagree, for reasons posted just a moment ago. Those Lakers were clearly not the same Lakers. They had no focus, and were simply declining in general. They did not play very good basketball that year. I think they barely won 50 games that year because of injuries and just general struggles.

  4. #29
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    The year they beat Shaq/Kobe, they clearly were declining/falling apart as a tandem and team in general. A hungry Lebron/Miami could beat them.

    06 Mavs would get worked due to their extremely undersized backcourt and lack of a wing defender outside of mental-midget Josh Howard.

    SSOL Suns were a real good team, but if the run and gun Thunder trio of Durant/Westbrook/Harden got mopped, so would those Suns. Getting into a running match with Lebron/Wade? Not a good idea.
    Prime stoudemire would have given Miami all kinds of fits, and we all saw how Marion did against LeBron in '11

  5. #30
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    2006 Mavs, 2012 Thunder, and 2013 Spurs take a wet on 3/4 of the Spurs Finals opponents, and you know it

    Also, 2007 was the path of least resistance in NBA history to a Finals, so not sure you wanna bring that up
    The 2012 thunder got exposed that was an awful series. Miami has to play 1 series a year while the west has to play 3 or 4 depending on seeding

  6. #31
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Phillip, you should give a lot more credit to your Mavs. They were right there with the Spurs and Suns in the mid 2000s.
    05-07 Mavs were a real good team, no question. But they match up terribly with this Miami team. Teams with strong guards/wing players were kryptonite for those Mavs. The teams that beat the Mavs each of those years exposed that (05 Suns, 06 Heat, 07 Warriors).

  7. #32
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I disagree, for reasons posted just a moment ago. Those Lakers were clearly not the same Lakers. They had no focus, and were simply declining in general. They did not play very good basketball that year. I think they barely won 50 games that year because of injuries and just general struggles.
    you still went up against prime shaq, Kobe having his best statistical season to that point, and Phil Jackson

  8. #33
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Prime stoudemire would have given Miami all kinds of fits, and we all saw how Marion did against LeBron in '11
    Marion in 11 was a much smarter player. Younger Marion bit every pump fake that was thrown at him.

    Stoudemire certainly would be tough, but Miami has the ability to lock down every other player on that team, and can actually out-gun them because Lebron/Wade are so unstoppable in traffic.

    The only weakness the Heat have is a team that can slow it down and beat them in the post. Phoenix couldn't do that.

  9. #34
    Veteran DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    Beating the '03 Lakers was still a great accomplishment, though. Philip is right in that they were out of gas and hadn't properly re-tooled the roster when the vets started to age and retire (Harper gone after 2001, Fox and Shaw declining), and they never really figured out the 4 even in the Finals years--it was AC Green, Horace Grant, and Samaki Walker in consecutive years--so that was a complete mismatch for TD. Horry was great at spot duty D at the 3/4, but not a fulltime player there, obviously

    Still, all that said they were an Horry in-and-out 3 from completing a furious Game 5 comeback and crushing San Antonio's spirit.

  10. #35
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    The year they beat Shaq/Kobe, they clearly were declining/falling apart as a tandem and team in general. A hungry Lebron/Miami could beat them.

    06 Mavs would get worked due to their extremely undersized backcourt and lack of a wing defender outside of mental-midget Josh Howard.

    SSOL Suns were a real good team, but if the run and gun Thunder trio of Durant/Westbrook/Harden got mopped, so would those Suns. Getting into a running match with Lebron/Wade? Not a good idea.
    The Shaq/Kobe Lakers would've been a matchup nightmare for the Heat. If not for Duncan beasting that season they would've four-peated.

    06 Mavs might've lost, but I think it would've been close. Bosh would've been destroyed by Dirk again and the officiating wouldn't of been as bad (only pussies and assholes, officiating, etc). AJ prolly gets severely outcoached tho so who knows.

    As much as we mock _'antoni, he is 10x the coach Brooks is. He prolly would've adjusted his game plan. Nash and co prolly wouldn't choke as bad as those three either.

  11. #36
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    you still went up against prime shaq, Kobe having his best statistical season to that point, and Phil Jackson
    That WAS NOT prime Shaq by any means, and everyone with an objective viewpoint knows it. That was around the time he started declining, and he dealt with injuries all year. He clearly was not his usual self. And he had really started picking up weight.

    Phil Jackson began losing control of that team around that time too.

    I don't disagree that it was a very impressive win, but don't act like they were anywhere nearly as mentally or physically focused as they were 2 years before.

  12. #37
    Veteran Spurs da champs's Avatar
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    The year they beat Shaq/Kobe, they clearly were declining/falling apart as a tandem and team in general. A hungry Lebron/Miami could beat them.

    06 Mavs would get worked due to their extremely undersized backcourt and lack of a wing defender outside of mental-midget Josh Howard.

    SSOL Suns were a real good team, but if the run and gun Thunder trio of Durant/Westbrook/Harden got mopped, so would those Suns. Getting into a running match with Lebron/Wade? Not a good idea.
    Even teams loaded with 7 footers like the Spurs fought an uphill battle against prime Shaq, how the would Miami with just Bosh handle those Lakers?

  13. #38
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    the lakers made it back to the finals in 04 with minimal contributions from Gary Payton during the playoff run, and Malone wasn't exactly beasting it through the postseason either. the 03 lakers were far from done. its convenient to say they were easy since they lost

  14. #39
    Veteran DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    The 2012 thunder got exposed that was an awful series. Miami has to play 1 series a year while the west has to play 3 or 4 depending on seeding
    No, Miami has had at least 2 compe ive series every year while the West has 3. Still, anyway you slice it a 3-peat by the Heat puts them above San Antonio for all the reasons already listed.

  15. #40
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    No, Miami has had at least 2 compe ive series every year while the West has 3. Still, anyway you slice it a 3-peat by the Heat puts them above San Antonio for all the reasons already listed.
    It puts them above the Spurs BECAUSE its a threepeat tbh. Even then I see arguments the other way because the Spurs have been contenders in 10+ seasons since they joined the NBA.

  16. #41
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    No argument here, the Heat will solidify their place over the Spurs with a three-peat. There is a paper thin gap right now.

  17. #42
    Veteran DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    Shaq started to get chunky and lazy after 2001 too. He was still so goddamn good and dominant that it didn't affect us (helped having Kobe be the closer those years in the playoffs, though...)

  18. #43
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    if the Heat 3-peat, its undeniable that they're better than any of the spurs teams. its also a bit difficult to gauge since the 99 spurs, the 03 spurs, and the 05/07 spurs are pretty much 3 separate en ies

  19. #44
    Veteran DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    It puts them above the Spurs BECAUSE its a threepeat tbh. Even then I see arguments the other way because the Spurs have been contenders in 10+ seasons since they joined the NBA.
    All dynasties in basketball have defended their le at least once. If you wanna try to crowbar in the 80's Celtics to help you in your argument (not saying you will), so be it--but everybody and their mother knows that was the Lakers decade (5 les, 8 appearances).

    Besides, even that Celtics "pseudo-dynasty" was mentally tough enough to go to 4 straight NBA Finals...San Antonio has only gone as far as the WCF once after a repeat (2008).

    The Heat will become an official dynasty, and dynasty-status puts you above those who don't have the credentials

  20. #45
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    The Shaq/Kobe Lakers would've been a matchup nightmare for the Heat.
    I think they both are matchup nightmares for each other. Shaq is going to be a problem down low.

    But on the other end, as DD brought out, those Lakers had no one to play the 4 remotely effectively, and just the general supporting cast of the team was in clear decline.

    Who's going to guard Bosh? Shaq? That just leaves the middle wide open.

    And Kobe could only guard one of the two of Lebron/Wade. Who's going to guard the other? An old Rick Fox?

    I don't think people realize just how good these Miami teams really are. Do they have weaknesses? Sure, although really only 1 noticable weakness (low post defense). Rebounding can be streaky, but when they get focused, they generally rebound just fine.

    The last time that I have seen a team coast the way that they have the past couple years, and turn it on when they want to, was the 3-peat Lakers. Before that was MJs Bulls. That's some good company.

  21. #46
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Even teams loaded with 7 footers like the Spurs fought an uphill battle against prime Shaq, how the would Miami with just Bosh handle those Lakers?
    Like I said in another post... there's no question Shaq is a problem for Miami, but you gotta look at it both ways... how the would LA handle Bosh with just Shaq? How the would LA handle Lebron/Wade with just Kobe?

    Bosh pulling Shaq out of the middle completely ruins any kind of defense the Lakers would be able to play. And no one else on the team aside from Kobe would have a chance at sticking with Lebron or Wade. And prime Lebron would give that younger, smaller version of Kobe all kinds of fits. No way Kobe at that time could consistently guard Lebron very effectively. 06-08 Kobe is a different story. Either way, this series wouldn't be as easy as you suggest.

  22. #47
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    All dynasties in basketball have defended their le at least once. If you wanna try to crowbar in the 80's Celtics to help you in your argument (not saying you will), so be it--but everybody and their mother knows that was the Lakers decade (5 les, 8 appearances).

    Besides, even that Celtics "pseudo-dynasty" was mentally tough enough to go to 4 straight NBA Finals...San Antonio has only gone as far as the WCF once after a repeat (2008).

    The Heat will become an official dynasty, and dynasty-status puts you above those who don't have the credentials
    I'm just talking about franchise success, not dominance. This Heat team is already knocking on the door of the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, MJ Bulls, Showtime Lakers, and '80s Celtics (though they weren't a dynasty that had mostly to do with running into Showtime). However, over their existences the Spurs have had more success than the Heat.

  23. #48
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with DD because of the threepeat but I really don't see opponents as a good argument.

    Also I think spurs 99/03/05 would give a of a work to Lebron's Heat

  24. #49
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with DD because of the threepeat but I really don't see opponents as a good argument.

    Also I think spurs 99/03/05 would give a of a work to Lebron's Heat
    99/03 Spurs beat this Heat team tbh. Argument in general tho is about franchise success.

  25. #50
    Veteran DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    Spurs/Duncan don't get enough credit for overcoming playoff Robinson and winning 2 les

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