The Religion of Peace

[jochhejaam]

How about every single Israeli attack? Wouldn't the defense of a country based on religion be considered religously motivated?

MIG, can you clearify this before I respond? I'm probably misinterpreting it because it seems as if you're suggesting Israel has initiated terrorist attacks.

[gtownspur]

Its pretty difficult to argue with the facts of a bigot.

Sorry manny, but being ignorant yourself is gonna be hard to argue with, Especialy when you are ignorant towards the israeli palestinian conflict. You said that the israeli attacks are fueled by religion because the country is based on religion. To this you are alluding to the notion that Israel is a theocracy. I hope you check your info and stop posting nonsense like that.
for one thing; israel has a huge arab population (close to 45%)who have their own political party in the Knesset, israel also is a democracy. All Israeli citizens(thats the arabs too!) have the same rights in the justice system. it is the palestinian athourity and their following of palestinians who want to wash the israeli's off the face of the earth. They are the ones who are the racist and bigots.

[smackdaddy11]

Forget it gtowm.

He calls me a bigot when i posted an ex-muslim who says I am right and anyone who calls you a bigot is a .



I post sites with muslims saying the same things I say. I rip his 'peaceful muslim fatwa's' by posting the guy who announced he wants the Islamic flag flying over the White House.

I bet Manny, who if he knows enough, thinks the Islamakazis should get all or some of Jerusalem.

News Flash: no arabic word meaning or the true word Jerusalem appears in the Koran ONE ING TIME!!!!! It appears in the Bible and Tanakh hundreds of time.

Yet the Muslims claim it. What a shock.

[MannyIsGod]

Yet he discounts the muslims who support islam and outnumber those speaking against Islam.

It's like attempting to argue with someone that people of different races/religions are capable of the same things.

He posts links trying to back up his claims, yet there are links for everything on the internet.

He's all of the place in the way he tries to make his point.

So, I don't engage him anymore. I simply refer to him as the bigot he is.

[MannyIsGod]

MIG, can you clearify this before I respond? I'm probably misinterpreting it because it seems as if you're suggesting Israel has initiated terrorist attacks.

Isreal's human rights record is bad at best and I do feel they do things they shouldn't be able to get away with and recieve our support.

That being said, calling them a terrorist state is extreme. I mainly said that their attacks are religously motivated because they are a state based on religion.

[Guru of Nothing]

News Flash: no arabic word meaning or the true word Jerusalem appears in the Koran ONE ING TIME!!!!!

Sure it is, only it's called Bum , Egypt. The Egyptian reference probably threw you off.

BTW, you representing yourself as any sort of authority on the Arabic language and Islam is by far one of the funniest running jokes here in this forum. You are approaching NBA Dan status, rapidly.

[CrazyOne]

I have to call BS on a couple of arguments...

Manny, defending yourself against people trying to exterminate your entire race is not a religiously motivated attack... that's just silly.

As for Iraq being the cause of all the hatred against us... umm... what came first, the invasion of Iraq or 9/11...and the Cole... and the first bombing at the WTC... The people who already hated freedom, democracy and all things that didn't fit into their 8th century worldview only site Iraq as their latest excuse. Jihad was in their teachings and actions long before that happened.

[MannyIsGod]

I have to call BS on a couple of arguments...

Manny, defending yourself against people trying to exterminate your entire race is not a religiously motivated attack... that's just silly.

We're not talking about a race, we're talking about a religion. Therefore any action the group takes, is religiously motivated.

As for Iraq being the cause of all the hatred against us... umm... what came first, the invasion of Iraq or 9/11...and the Cole... and the first bombing at the WTC... The people who already hated freedom, democracy and all things that didn't fit into their 8th century worldview only site Iraq as their latest excuse. Jihad was in their teachings and actions long before that happened.

No one said Iraq was the cause of all hatred against us.

[CrazyOne]

Manny, come off it... that's the same as saying since you are white or black or hispanic, everything you do is racially motivated, since you belong to a race. Well, maybe if there is a quote from the Old testament that says, "Don't let people kill all of you, cause that would be bad."...

If we're not in Iraq, there is no jihad talk there.

That disagreement may be more of a semantic one than anything else...

[CrazyOne]

Also, being Jewish can be either a religion or a race. Many Jews (by race) do not belong to the Jewish faith. There are many people who are not Jewish by race who adhere to the Jewish faith.

[MannyIsGod]

If I establish a country based any religion - because the country is not established on a race, but a religion - then every action that country does is related to the religion. This is no different when people talk about Iran and other countries in the region that have their government roots in religion but somehow forget that Israel does as well.

And there were no terrorist attacks IN IRAQ before the invasion and that was what the statement you quoted is saying. The keyword is "there".

[whottt]

It wasn't my intent to turn this into a religious pissing contest....but I would like to point some things out..

1.This doesn't include many of the Iraq occurences that could be considered an act of war....it includes mainly incidences where civillians were targeted.


#2.I nor anyone never said that Muslims don't attack Muslims with terrorism....it happens often and it's Muslims in Iraq that are getting attacked more than the US Soldiers are now. That doesn't mean it's not a terrorist ideology....the Shia's are different than the Sunni's( you spellcheck).


#3. This strain of Islamic fundamentalism is not the way it has always been....in the 70's many of the mid-east countries were very westernized....ever see the picture of Usama as a kid when he is wearing a T Shirt and Bell Bottoms? Even the women were not required to wear the hegab(sp) as strictly as they are now....

, Pakistan had a female Prime Minister.....even in Afghanistan, during the Russian invastion...Girls ran around in T Shirts in Jeans....

Don't get me wrong...women have always had lesser rights...


But it used to be much more progressive in the Post WWII era. a long time ago it was more progressive.

Matter of fact...the Ottoman Empire was once of the most progessive nation on Earth....in fact it's extreme liberalization was part of the reason it declined(and it stopped moving forward technologically).


But what we face now, this strict Islam...the is something that rose to prominence in the last 30 years or so....It is more opressive now than it used to be, it is more apocalyptic than it used to be...and if we continue to ignore it, and the causes of it...it will continue to grow in popularity.

Yes Muslims kills Muslims...but the Muslim leaders need to stop saying terrorism is justified "sometimes"...they need to stop being only upset when Muslims are killed as well in the terrorist attacks...they need to stop calling for Islamic states(whether peacefully or through terrorism)....the moderates need to do this. They need to get "it".


They need to totally separate themselves from the fundamentalist ideology...if they are not willing to do this...

They have no place in the Western World...and likely, no place on Earth.

[CrazyOne]

That argument still doesn't work... for an act to be considered religiously motivated, people have to act because they believe their religion requires the act. Tell me, if an Arab Israeli soldier standing guard on the border shoots a terrorist trying to cross the border with a bomb, would you consider that act a religiously motivated one? And which religion would be considered the motivating religion?

Or if a bunch of Baptists go to Ryan's after church on Sunday, and eat some bad potato salad and then barf in the parking lot, is the barfing considered religiously motivated? Just because the Jewish people (which is considered a people group not just a religious group, just like Albanians or Slovenians) live in a country that has a religious history, does not mean that every national action is a religiously motivated one.

This is an intentional comparison between apples and kiwi fruit...

[MannyIsGod]

Fair enough. It may not be the same, but there is something to be said about a country founded on religous beliefs and its actions.

[CrazyOne]

It was founded because most other nations where Jewish people lived had a nasty habit of trying to exterminate them...

[MannyIsGod]

I understand the basis for a Jewish state. That doesn't mean I think it was completely justified. And that definetlly doesn't mean I believe everything Israel does in the name of defense is justified.

[Extra Stout]

There are a lot of quite lovely and kind Muslim people in the world. I don't think even the most hawkish among us deny that.

But today it is Islam that has the big problem with terrorism. Maybe five hundred years ago it was the Christians slaying everybody all over the world while Islam was the glory of human civilization and knowledge. But we aren't living in A.D. 1500.

From a geopolitical standpoint, I don't give a which religion is "better" theologically. If we lived in a world where the vast majority of Muslim countries were peaceful and prosperous, that would be great, and we could just exchange tracts and have nice debates about Jesus versus Mohammed. But that's not reality, and what I know is that here in 2005 the big threat to the Western world is Islamic fundamentalism.

That doesn't mean we need to villify all Muslims, like a lot of lefties assume the right wants to do. Neither does it mean we need to make excuses for this enormous crisis within the Muslim community by comparing it to something else that happened in history. It makes it sound like lefties just think we all deserve to die because of past wrongdoings.

I don't live in history. I live now. Muslim extremists want to kill Westerners now. I'm a Westerner who doesn't want to be killed by Muslim extremists.

[Jelly]

It was founded because most other nations where Jewish people lived had a nasty habit of trying to exterminate them...

Yes, but its current population now consists of many Jews who never faced extermination of any kind, but in fact, enjoyed very comfortable and successful lives in places like America.

[travis2]

Yes, but its current population now consists of many Jews who never faced extermination of any kind, but in fact, enjoyed very comfortable and successful lives in places like America.

OK...and...?

[jochhejaam]

I understand the basis for a Jewish state. That doesn't mean I think it was completely justified. And that definetlly doesn't mean I believe everything Israel does in the name of defense is justified.

There one heck-of-a-lot more restrained than I would be if someone felt I didn't have the right to exist and pressed the issue. To this point in theri brief history they've been the picture of restraint. There military actions are in response to relentless bigoted terrorist attacks on their people.

This is an honest question MIG. Are you anti-semitic? (I don't mean to the point where you're a bigot because I don't see your Israeli views as being that extreme).

[Spurtacular]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

[Pelicans78]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

What’s the big deal if they’re only killing Muslims? Besides our military has been there for almost 20 years and we still can’t get rid of the Taliban and now IS.