Is Leonard a Max Player

I'm not worried about Kawhi getting a big head...Pop would put him in check with the quickness. Kawhi knows which side his bread is buttered on.

Originally Posted by kaji157

He seems to be a 10-12 million dollar guy.
I mean, other than his defense his finals MVP is very similar to the Parker´s Finals MVP. More a matter of situations where the team takes advantage and he finishes.
Clearly the Heat made a commitment to stop Parker and Ginobili on the pick n roll (Still both of them averaged more than 15 pts and 4.5 assists). Leaving an incredible amount of open shots for players to take advantage. Leonard played the most minutes with either Tony or Manu, hence, he took the most advantage of all the non-big-3 players.
I think the key here is: Had the Heat commit to Leonard not being to score, would he be able to create game for others the way max players (and near max players) can?
Duncan could, Tony and Manu could. LeBron can do it. Max players should do it, and considering Tim was a max player only once in his career, Manu was a max player only once in his career, and Tony was never a max player. You have to be very good to get a max contract in SA. And i don´t think Leonard will be at that level soon.
As said before, i would offer now what was first offered to Ginobili after his rookie contract. 6 years at 52 millions (For other reference TP biggest contract was 6 years at 66 millions while Manu´s -max deal NBA allowed- was 3 years at 39 millions)

Excellent post .

Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

Leonard deserves the George extension. But he will also be given advice by the Spurs to take a small pay cut. It will be his prerogative to take it or not. I suspect he will.

He's not eligible for the 30% cap base salary unless he wins MVP in 2014-15. He'll likely get something in the range of 5 years, $85 million.

Originally Posted by SpurSwag

Pay the guy whatever he wants as long as we can retain every other free agent (yes even Bonner)

I hope we retain Bonner too, as a coach.

Kawhi Leonard confident he'll work out Spurs extension

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/spurs/2014/06/17/kawhi-leonard-spurs-nba-championship-finals-mvp-contract-extension/10696727/

He is also transitioning from Nike to Jordan Brand and received a congratulatory text from Michael Jordan after Game 5.

Originally Posted by kaji157

He seems to be a 10-12 million dollar guy.

The only way that Kawhi signs for 10-12M per year is if he chooses to give the Spurs a deep discount to his market value. That's plain and simple. All that other stuff about what Tony and Manu got paid earlier in their careers is completely irrelevant to what Kawhi's value will be in an extension signed this summer or a new contract signed next summer.

One important note for this conversation. We've overlooked an important change from the 2011 CBA. Five year extensions to a rookie contract have to be for the max first year salary and include the max 7.5% annual raises. So all my guesses, and any other guesses, for numbers like 5/60 or 5/70 just can't happen. A five year extension would have to be for the max (somewhere around 5/90 with the exact amount to be determined when the 2015 cap numbers are known).

So for the Spurs and Leonard to agree on a less than max extension this summer, it will be a four year deal, not a five year extension.

Originally Posted by will_spurs

Because the Spurs have to sign him to an extension this summer?

No they don't. In fact it's to his, and the Spurs benefit NOT to. I'm convinced that the end of this iteration of the Spurs is next summer. Tim and Manu roll off, freeing $17M. If Kawhi and the Spurs roll with this contract next year, he will only count $4M as a cap hold next summer, being the #15 pick in 2011. They can spend up to the cap, and THEN sign Kawhi. K can also get a full 5 years, instead of 4 on an extension.

Kawhi can have whatever he likes.

Originally Posted by Mel_13

The only way that Kawhi signs for 10-12M per year is if he chooses to give the Spurs a deep discount to his market value. That's plain and simple. All that other stuff about what Tony and Manu got paid earlier in their careers is completely irrelevant to what Kawhi's value will be in an extension signed this summer or a new contract signed next summer.

One important note for this conversation. We've overlooked an important change from the 2011 CBA. Five year extensions to a rookie contract have to be for the max first year salary and include the max 7.5% annual raises. So all my guesses, and any other guesses, for numbers like 5/60 or 5/70 just can't happen. A five year extension would have to be for the max (somewhere around 5/90 with the exact amount to be determined when the 2015 cap numbers are known).

So for the Spurs and Leonard to agree on a less than max extension this summer, it will be a four year deal, not a five year extension.

Nice work.

Interesting, didn't know that, that's why I thought 60-70/5 would be about right. In that case...

Originally Posted by exstatic

No they don't. In fact it's to his, and the Spurs benefit NOT to. I'm convinced that the end of this iteration of the Spurs is next summer. Tim and Manu roll off, freeing $17M. If Kawhi and the Spurs roll with this contract next year, he will only count $4M as a cap hold next summer, being the #15 pick in 2011. They can spend up to the cap, and THEN sign Kawhi. K can also get a full 5 years, instead of 4 on an extension.

...what ex says makes perfect sense - wait it out and sign him to the 5yr contract after next year.

Whatever happens I'm pretty sure Kawhi isn't going anywhere - he is a perfect fit for this franchise.

Originally Posted by exstatic

No they don't. In fact it's to his, and the Spurs benefit NOT to. I'm convinced that the end of this iteration of the Spurs is next summer. Tim and Manu roll off, freeing $17M. If Kawhi and the Spurs roll with this contract next year, he will only count $4M as a cap hold next summer, being the #15 pick in 2011. They can spend up to the cap, and THEN sign Kawhi. K can also get a full 5 years, instead of 4 on an extension.

Exactly, and if the Spurs win the lottery again during those five years, they could give a five-year extension to that player.

Originally Posted by Chinook

Exactly, and if the Spurs win the lottery again during those five years, they could give a five-year extension to that player.

Doesn't even have to be a lottery pick. Kawhi wasn't. They just need to make another good trade down the line.

Originally Posted by exstatic

No they don't. In fact it's to his, and the Spurs benefit NOT to. I'm convinced that the end of this iteration of the Spurs is next summer. Tim and Manu roll off, freeing $17M. If Kawhi and the Spurs roll with this contract next year, he will only count $4M as a cap hold next summer, being the #15 pick in 2011. They can spend up to the cap, and THEN sign Kawhi. K can also get a full 5 years, instead of 4 on an extension.

Makes sense. I was just going with the Spurs habit of signing their players to extensions one year before reaching the deadline. As to the benefit, there's one full season between now and then, and many things can happen. Both the FO and Kawhi will probably look at it as a risk worth taking, though.

Things are looking good anyway. Some people just seem born to be Spurs...

"I'm just playing," Leonard said. "The Spurs are a great organization. I'm leaving that to my agent, and I'm sure they'll come out with a great understanding and a deal. I'm not focused on that at all."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...sion/10696727/

Originally Posted by Mel_13

The only way that Kawhi signs for 10-12M per year is if he chooses to give the Spurs a deep discount to his market value. That's plain and simple. All that other stuff about what Tony and Manu got paid earlier in their careers is completely irrelevant to what Kawhi's value will be in an extension signed this summer or a new contract signed next summer.

One important note for this conversation. We've overlooked an important change from the 2011 CBA. Five year extensions to a rookie contract have to be for the max first year salary and include the max 7.5% annual raises. So all my guesses, and any other guesses, for numbers like 5/60 or 5/70 just can't happen. A five year extension would have to be for the max (somewhere around 5/90 with the exact amount to be determined when the 2015 cap numbers are known).

So for the Spurs and Leonard to agree on a less than max extension this summer, it will be a four year deal, not a five year extension.

Ok then let´s give him a four year not max but well paid extension. 4/50?

Originally Posted by kaji157

Ok then let´s give him a four year not max but well paid extension. 4/50?

There's no practical difference between 12.5M per year and 12M per year. Both are well below his market value and there's no reason for him to take such a deal unless he wants to give the team a deep discount. I can't recall any example of a player in his situation agreeing to that sort of discount.

The maximum offer he can get from another team in 2015 will be somewhere between 4/65 and 4/70, depending on the exact salary cap number. If he remains healthy, there will be multiple teams prepared to offer a max deal.

Maybe he signs for much less, but he would be leaving many millions on the table.

Originally Posted by Andthentherewas21

Nothing screams inflated ego about the way he reacted to getting the FMVP, nor his lifestyle before it.

Originally Posted by Mel_13

There's no practical difference between 12.5M per year and 12M per year. Both are well below his market value and there's no reason for him to take such a deal unless he wants to give the team a deep discount. I can't recall any example of a player in his situation agreeing to that sort of discount.

The maximum offer he can get from another team in 2015 will be somewhere between 4/65 and 4/70, depending on the exact salary cap number. If he remains healthy, there will be multiple teams prepared to offer a max deal.

Maybe he signs for much less, but he would be leaving many millions on the table.

Look at his regular season stats, 12.5 would be perfectly fine, you're overreacting to a series where Manu and TP were trapped...

How much would have given Green if he won FMVP last year ?

Originally Posted by Baam

Look at his regular season stats, 12.5 would be perfectly fine, you're overreacting to a series where Manu and TP were trapped...

How much would have given Green if he won FMVP last year ?

My estimates here are consistent with where I've had Leonard for some time. Before the playoffs began, I pegged his market value at 12.8M per year, with the proviso that Kawhi had raised his level of play in his first two seasons from the regular season to the playoffs. He did it again this season in a very big way and his market value has gone up as a result.

I'll write a more extensive reply tomorrow, but I'm headed downtown right now.

Originally Posted by Baam

Look at his regular season stats, 12.5 would be perfectly fine, you're overreacting to a series where Manu and TP were trapped...

How much would have given Green if he won FMVP last year ?

Kawhi would almost certainly get a max deal from another team. The Spurs can't let him go, so the max is his value. Remember, Hibbert got a max deal, and he wasn't nearly the prospect Kawhi is.

If Green wins fMVP next year, he'd probably get a four-year deal starting around $10 Million.

Originally Posted by Chinook

Kawhi would almost certainly get a max deal from another team. The Spurs can't let him go, so the max is his value. Remember, Hibbert got a max deal, and he wasn't nearly the prospect Kawhi is.

If Green wins fMVP next year, he'd probably get a four-year deal starting around $10 Million.

Can play that game both ways, Curry didn't get the max, Rondo didn't get the max...

Hibbert happens to be one of the worst contract in the league right now, just saying...

Originally Posted by Baam

Can play that game both ways, Curry didn't get the max, Rondo didn't get the max...

Hibbert happens to be one of the worst contract in the league right now, just saying...

Those were extensions. I've said numerous times that I don't believe in max extensions, so it makes sense that those were below-max. Then you have to add in that neither player was coming off an fMVP performance. Actually, Curry had a horrible, injury-filled year.

Originally Posted by Chinook

Those were extensions. I've said numerous times that I don't believe in max extensions, so it makes sense that those were below-max. Then you have to add in that neither player was coming off an fMVP performance. Actually, Curry had a horrible, injury-filled year.

So basically a FMVP that was virtually a tie with Boris Diaw in a series where the playmakers were trapped is skewing the perspective...

And KAwhi missed plenty of games his first 3 years.

Originally Posted by Baam

So basically a FMVP that was virtually a tie with Boris Diaw in a series where the playmakers were trapped is skewing the perspective...

And KAwhi missed plenty of games his first 3 years.

I think Curry missed, like, 50-plus games in 2011-2012. Those injuries still flair up (like in last year's WCSF) and will continue to do so for the rest of his career. Leonard has not had that type of injury trouble.

Also, Diaw's Finals performance is overrated, on my opinion. He didn't remotely deserve the award over Leonard or Duncan.

Ok I think it's the other way around, Boris has an history of making players around him look better than they are.

Anyway giving him the max wouldn't be catastrophic. Still another season with plays called for him on the regular will make the picture much clearer.

i also think he'll get around 10-12 per year, i think he understands that he wouldn't be what he is now without the great coaching he got.