Lionel
Last edited by TheGreatYacht; 07-05-2014 at 02:17 PM.
Last edited by TheGreatYacht; 07-05-2014 at 02:19 PM.
The topic is not "the most POPULAR Argentinian athlete", it is "the GREATER Argentinian athlete".
Basketball players in general are widely recognized as some of the greatest athletes in the world in all of sports.
This is why I dispute the claim.
actually, Manu has really strong case to be the greatest argentinian athlete:
Spanish League / Italian League soccer = Regular season in the Nba and Euroleague
Maradona= 3
Messi= 6
Manu= 5 regular seasons and 1 euroleague
Champions league soccer = Nba championships
Maradona= 0
Messi= 3
Manu= 4
Copa America in soccer = Fiba Americas
Maradona= 0
Messi= 0
Manu= 1 gold
World Cup in soccer = Olympics / world cup
Maradona= 1 gold and 1 silver
Messi= 0
Manu= 1 gold and 1 silver
Messi has a lot of individuals records, but that is just not enough to make him the greatest.
"Useless sh*t FIBA tournament" (according to fans blaming Tony and Manu for playing in FIBA) = Football World Cup ?
sure manu
Messi will say the same thing they are not ego divas.
Better athletes? it is a tottally different sport, how the can you say who is a better athlete?
Now put what Messi have done in FOOTBALL to compare with Ginobili :P
You already lost the discussion but keep adding dumb things around like Horry, Bird or futbol being the most popular sport since you are out of arguments the only thing you got is to just spin things.
100 games per season, 7 game playoffs are like 3 times euro futbol finals, back to back to back games in the lockout season and then play for the NT, maybe you are a philippine or something here in Argentina everybody plays 90 minutes without tears basketball is more demanding.
Manu is not prime Manu while Messi is 10 years younger so I would love to see Messi playing like Manu did 2 weeks ago against Miami at 37.
There are lots of boxers around the world too since you like to add to the discussion things that are not related, are all of them good and make the sport compe ive? the heavyweights are ballerinas.
ĻYou can see in this World Cup the balance between teamsĻ that shows how little you know about futbol.
ĻFatsos have indeed played in the NBA. I have never seen one in elite footballĻ
Spanish League / Italian League soccer = Regular season in the Nba and Euroleague
Maradona= 3
Messi= 6
Manu= 5 regular seasons and 1 euroleague
Bird= 6
Champions league soccer = Nba championships
Maradona= 0
Messi= 3
Manu= 4
Bird= 3
Copa America in soccer = Fiba Americas
Maradona= 0
Messi= 0
Manu= 1 gold
Bird= 0
World Cup in soccer = Olympics / world cup
Maradona= 1 gold and 1 silver
Messi= 0
Manu= 1 gold and 1 silver
Bird= 1 gold
Larry Bird has a lot of individual records, but that is just not enough to make him better than Ginobili
I'm just using your logics and, you're dead right, the results are dumb.
You run in a football game two to three times the distance you cover in a basketball game. The fact that you can play back to back to back games in basketball clearly tells you that it's easier. I have never ever seen back to back games in football. Not even when a game is cancelled and needs to be re-scheduled. It's way too exhausting.
Not to mention that Ginobili has almost always been a bench guy with reduced usage compared to other basketball stars.
Congratulations, you just have won the debate about who will be better at 37.
I was talking about real fatsos, like...
Or
You keep bringing Bird to the table, dude, itīs easy, if you donīt win the most important compe ion in your sport you are not the greatest, Jordan is the greatest an he won it all, Messi is two games away, but unless he proves that he can win something without Xavi and Iniesta he is not, no matter how many les Bird has.
My guess is that logic takes you to places like "If Duncan never won a gold medal that makes him worst than Ginobili!!!" and that is not what Iīm saying, what Iīm saying is when you look for the "greatest" there are things that can not be underviewed, winning the WC in is one of them to soccer players, and at that level Manu has done more than Messi to be the greatest, he won everthing there is to win outside the well oiled machine that are the Spurs, Messi didnīt.
That is why I told you in a previous post that Manu can be the greatest argentinian athelete, but Duncan is not the greatest american athlete, even if Duncan is better than Manu.
Let me put it this way: if Kevin Durant dropped 40 points a game his entire career getting regular seasons MVPīs every year, but failed to win a champinship, he would not be considered the greatest american athlete, no matter what the numbers says.
is just a sine qua non requirement.
The moment that Messi pass the WC requirement there is no discussion.
Last edited by leo_d; 07-06-2014 at 08:08 AM.
By your logic, Ginobili is the greatest Spurs athlete as he is the only one to win it all.
I forgot Robinson who has 2 Olympics but only 2 le, so Manu is still the greatest.
Last edited by Kabals; 07-06-2014 at 08:12 AM.
So Ginobili would be greater than Durant, right?
Sorry if I look a bit lost but I'm learning on greatness on the fly with you.
Iīll say that for american athletes the most important compe ion to win in basketball is the NBA, so the answer is no, Duncan gets the le, but if Duncan had same record that Jordan, Iīll go with the one winning international compe ion. And Jordan won one with out a Dream Team backing him up.
On the other hand, for the rest of the world, iīm pretty sure they value more an olympic gold that a NBA le, maybe because is so damn hard to beat USA in those.
well, by your logic of taking winning out of the ecuation, then Malone is better than Duncan, i mean, at the end of the day, he still has almost 50% more points.
I'm not taking anything out of the equation, that's the key. Duncan and Malone are very comparable guys, both have long careers, both have been considered at some point to be very top players in the league, if not the best, both won two MVPs. So when you have comparable guys, then you can bring their victories to the conversation, and Duncan comes way ahead.
If you take only winning into the equation, then you will get dumb results such as Tyronne Lue being better than John Stockton.
But it only gets worse when you consider the fact that you play for the NBA le every single year enduring a long season, but you can play for the football WC only every four years in a seven-game tournament with four do-or-die games. Messi is indeed a winner in the yearly top compe ion.
You can't compare a winning second banana, as good and exciting as he is, to one of the all-time greatest football players. You just can't.
actually, when you talk about the greatest you draw a line with winning the most important thing there is to win in the sport, and the talk about personal records, by that measure Tyronne Lue could never be considered the greatest, neither John Stockton or Karl Malone, but you donīt start with personal acomplishments, because they donīt mean anything without winning.
Messi canīt be in the discussion for beeing the greatest argentinian athlete, simply because he hasnīt pass the line that Maradona and Manu drawed.
Once he does that there can be a discussion. Winning with a disfuntional team in a 7 game compe ion is the most precious le a soccer player can aspire. Messi is capable of putting records with a billon dolar team, he needs to do more than that to catch Manu and Maradona.
You can only use that card with Maradona. Manu wasn't even his team's top player when he won his NBA rings. How can you enter a "greatest" discussion if you're not even the top player in your own team?
Before Nowitzki became the top player ever in Europe, the discussion was mainly about either Sabonis or Petrovic. None of them had won a NBA ring. Petrovic hadn't even won an Olympic Gold. Indeed Petrovic is widely considered the top player from the former Yugoslavia, and rightfully so. Not Kukoc (three times NBA champion), not Cosic (Olympic champion), not anybody else.
I think many of you are focusing on one word when there are three, "greatest", "Argentinian", and "athlete".
All three together change the discussion significantly.
Futbol players donīt run the whole field and its less exhausting than BB, those 2 babies you showed me are really fat but that doesnt make mine skinnier.I'm just using your logics and, you're dead right, the results are dumb.
You run in a football game two to three times the distance you cover in a basketball game. The fact that you can play back to back to back games in basketball clearly tells you that it's easier. I have never ever seen back to back games in football. Not even when a game is cancelled and needs to be re-scheduled. It's way too exhausting.
Not to mention that Ginobili has almost always been a bench guy with reduced usage compared to other basketball stars.
Congratulations, you just have won the debate about who will be better at 37.
[B]
I was talking about real fatsos, like...
Or
Another reason why soccer is more popular is because people see basketball as a tall people sport, since people is mostly short they simply watch futbol and everytime they see someone over 6ī3Ļ they say YOU SHOULD PLAY BB.
Even if Argentina wins which would be awesome Maradona already did it, the difference is Argentina is a futbol country and we always have great futbol teams, what Manu did as leo_d said is he won against Team Usa twice with a NT full of nobodies (how many of these dudes had a good NBA career?) while our futbol team is full of dudes playing in elite euro teams.
It was a bigger challenge, there is no futbol national team stacked as that USA BB team.
Maybe Malone was better athlete than Duncan yeah, but Duncan is the better player, same with Duracne that skinny lives by the refs what a heliflopter queen I hate him and his fat mom he is a good shooter and thats it...Manu is the better player when the Durant played like Manu ī05?
Superstars padding stats are like garbage points they mean nothing.
Regarding Manu vs Messi athletism, Futbol players run, basketball players run and jump, Messi is not a good jumper he is like 5ī7 and has barely made goals using his head.
Those fatty you showed to me were centers, thats like futbol goalkeepers
This is not a goalkeeper but too good to let it out this athletic thread
Last edited by Mikeanaro; 07-06-2014 at 12:22 PM.
I'm just using your logics and, you're dead right, the results are dumb.
You run in a football game two to three times the distance you cover in a basketball game. The fact that you can play back to back to back games in basketball clearly tells you that it's easier. I have never ever seen back to back games in football. Not even when a game is cancelled and needs to be re-scheduled. It's way too exhausting.
Not to mention that Ginobili has almost always been a bench guy with reduced usage compared to other basketball stars.
Congratulations, you just have won the debate about who will be better at 37.
[B]
I was talking about real fatsos, like...
Or
they dont run the whole court dumbass, a striker(like messi incase you didnt know) can sit on his ass when the ball is on the other side of the court. While bball players run the whole court every moment.
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